mue 26 wrote:I liked MGS Rising :(

Yea because it was great.

Had great camera headache inducing issues. And great narrative issues. And had great potential to be more than what it was.

Eh, I digress.

You don't really get narrative through gameplay do you? I kind of noticed that, like you totally missed what makes Metroid Prime great and think the opening to Resident Evil 6 is great. Narrative in interactive media is a whole different beast.

I'm not trying to be a dick, Its just something I notice when talking to people who get into games from film. theres some stuff you're seeing as a filmmaker that dosen't work the same way in people's minds when it comes to interactivity.

What do concepts like player agency and player gating have to do with programming? Shit, I've made it pretty clear that my first job was constructing trailers.

If you seriously think watching a person drag another person for 20 minutes is more entertaining then actually pressing buttons and having things happen, well thats on you but understanding why a group of people might enjoy actually playing a game is something different.

Do you understand narrative through gameplay? its a concept, its used by people who make games. I was mentioning that you either don't understand it or don't know what it is (made more clear by the fact that you are getting defensive by calling me a snob)

Filmmakers generally don't understand gameplay, almost 10 years of working with them making games and having them ask me questions about things like "choice" tells me this. Its not that I have a problem with filmmakers, I'd like to help them make games but I find generally I have to act as an intermediate BECAUSE they generally don't understand gameplay and focus almost exclusively on aesthetics.

I try not to really comment on films, I'm not a filmmaker I take jabs and make jokes but I won't talk about construction and pacing in em because thats not what I do. I don't expect anyone to understand this stuff, but when you make it seem like you do, and you don't I'm going to point it out. I want everyone to be able to make games, I want YOU to make a bunch of great games using your skills as someone rooted in film if you ever get the itch to, but thats why I want to make sure you understand concepts specific to interactivity, if you don't realize this other side exists (which it seems like you don't) you'll make really unbalanced games.

If you want to talk about things that are pathetic maybe snapping at someone who asked you a valid question about your understanding of a theory is pathetic.

(Final note, I don't know C++)

Its to a point where Kenny is making a lot of assumptions and trying to misread what I'm saying, so he can fuck off. Especially with the business of "Repeat offenders" and bein "Pathetic"

Have you played DmC? Neither have I. Have I played Metal Gear Rising? Yeah, really enjoyed it, but I'm not getting angry because Kenny has vastly different opinions about the game to me.

Finally, common sense.

And I don't get this snobby , and slightly hostile , attitude you have on filmmakers especially it has nothing to do with opinion that it's a poorly constructed story. What are you going to say to other people who are NOT filmmakers who have the same viewpoint as me? That they don't get it? That they're not true fans? Really, it's getting a little pathetic at this point.

Thats a whole lot of assumption there.

*Accusing me of not understanding narrative in a gameplay as a way to cope with a dissenting opinion. Hence, snobby.

You don't even know what I think of the story. How do you know there even is a dissenting opinion?

**Never mentioned Metroid Prime so it's some sort of grudge you have just because I said I didn't like it in the past and try to bring it in this discussion to vent.

So what caused you to comment about how I'm a repeat offender. Do you have an ax to grind? I brought it up because its something I noticed in general. I keep in mind the kind of games people here like and what they like about them or dislike about them. I do this because its a way of sorting out uses for people, a kind of recruitment. There are a lot of gameplay based concepts in the game that were lost to you, but that seems like a general thing, I notice with games you like or dislike actual player interaction isn't something you really get in to. I enjoyed reading your notes on Metal gear but there were things in there too that you missed. I'm not trying to offend, but when it comes to designing games that seems like something you don't quite get. This is why I asked if you were familiar with the concept.

***You bring this up knowing I'm a filmmaker yet the only loose (remote) connection to this is me saying narrative, yet anyone who is NOT in the film industry may or may not have the same opinion as me. No basis for bringing this up except to bring up some sort of weird affirmation that since I am "just" a filmmaker and not in the game industry, I must not know what i'm talking about. Especially on a simple casual four word opinion. Not to mention you said in the past you and a co-worker laughed at some hot shot hollywood screenwriter for his apparently haughty attitude. Hence, slightly hostile.

No I say that from reading (and enjoying) just about anything you've posted. Maybe you've forgotten but I've even interacted with you before on your projects by asking questions. I can see from your skillset that you're a person who understands visual media very well. Hotshot directors and producers aren't the only people I work with, I've worked with lots of film students and indie flimmakers too. Actually I've worked with a ton of people in general because I got to lots of GameJams and something I've noticed from years of experience is that people who come from a purely visual media have troble working out interactive designs because they don't get things like player agency (which is super important)

Theres no book on this stuff, you don't learn about it by browsing kotaku, you might hear the tearm but you need to find someone who understands it to actually explain it to you. Thats something I need to do a lot, theres no "Grudge" I'd happily hire a filmmaker on to my staff if I thought they could help, I even gave a thought to asking you on if I had more money for my next project just to get the cutscenes looking right.

I once called Colin Schnider a redneck pain in the ass, do i hate white people? I bought him a drink 10 minutes later.

****Further evidence for above point. Hence, getting kinda pathetic at this point.

and you know this is complete fact because?

*****A way of saying just cause I don't like it, i'm wrong. Like i'm arguing against theory of relativity, the big bang, or evolution.

Theres facts in game design you can't get past. Why does a goomba pop out when you kill bowser in any castle except 8-4? Why are Enemy attacks usually twice the number of a players attack in most RPGs? All of these things can be answered in terms of game design. Yeah, you do certain things if you want the player to react a certain way.

If I tell you "I have a dime, a quarter and a nickel and tell you you need to pick one", I'm setting rules and based on those rules you have to pick one, or not play. I know every choice you'll make because I've set the parameters. People don't realize things like this. You can't say I'm going to pick the dime and switch it for a nickel or that you're going to shank me and take everything. All of that is the theory of Systemic Limitation, its a theory and you can argue it but if you really think about it, yea duh you can only have as many options as you give the player because a system is limited virtually. Most people, especially ones who are getting into game design from another field (and I've had to explain this to sprite artists and musicians also) don't get stuff like this. Its true, from the very first time you try to make a character do anything more then walk you'll realize some of this stuff, but you might not be ale to easily explain it.

So yea, there are theories in game design that are fairly bulletproof, you're free to take a shot at em but it seems like you don't know what they are, hence I was asking.

We can keep going back and forth on this ad infinitum since we don't happen to agree on what is considered opinion and what is considered fact, but i'm going to stop here. It's late, i'm hungry, and I got more work to do after this. Above all, i'm done.

You're also being presumptuous because you don't know what you're arguing with. In all of this you don't even know what I thought of the game. You're done cool.

VI is my favorite DQ game althought I always preferred the pixel art over the redrawn. I wish it would get a rremake like 7 on 3ds

I got hype when I heard this song.

I'm going to step in and help this along a bit. I loved Gunlord so I'm hype.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gunlo ... s-and-wiiu

My goal is to show a game at next years TGS. Might have 2 or 3 to show, we'll see what happens in January.

As for this this year, I hope we hear lots of stuff out of Atlus...LOTS of stuff. That'd make me happy.

Well its hard to say whats worse, having a lot of good stuff thats not being localized or not having good stuff at all. Square-enix does have a bunch of great 3ds games (theres three dragon quest games on the 3ds alone that are great) Capcom pretty much isn't making anything. Most people didn't even realize lost planet 3 came out, dead rising is being handeled mostly by microsoft capcom's not really developing stuff right now.

If you look up "upcoming sega games" theres literally 2, and yea thats sad its no worse then anyone else. as hype as I am for FF15 and MGS5 thats it for them too. Bravely default is being localized by Nintendo and theres no guarantee we'll get drag on dragoon 3.

The industry as a whole isn't in a great place, I totally get being upset but its not like Sega is any worse then Capcom (which has gotten so bad a new megaman game is coming out as mighty number 9) or Square-Enix (which is prepping sequals to theatrythem and all the bravest)

Henry Spencer wrote:I mean, damn. Classic SEGA is well and truly buried at this point.

You never know. If I got my hands on those IPs they'd change alittle but they'd all get atleast one solid release.

Testament. The one with the mansex, cannibalism and magic zombies.

Actually right now theres only Testament (which I'm paying for out of pocket) and Beatdown City. I'd only take on another project if it was something really big that I knew I'd make a lot of money.

Changed a formula from TS=SP-W to TS=SP-(CON-W) and all of my numbers fucked themselves and need to be re-written.

I realized it had to change while I was mocking something up.

MiTT3NZ wrote: I could defo do a fast-paced NY State of Mind-sounding track.

Then if you're not working on anything else you should give that a try so we can listen to it. I'm just trying to imagine it, even at the normal speed it seems like it'd fit just needs some work to make it perfect.

If you make a "videogamey"version of Illmatic I wouldn't be mad. I'd take the beat from NY State of mind, it just needs to be a little faster if I were to use it for like the battle theme.

I mean attached to that image was like 3 emails of 1000 words each about specifications.

MiTT3NZ wrote: I won't be gettin my Mac back til tomorrow, but I've got a very specific violin VST that I ran a shitloada processes over in an attempt to recreate the instrumental for it a few years back. I'll make it my first task.

Now I'm excited.

You should read my twitter in general

Got some concept sketches, time to write another 1000 word email.

Well your avatar looks alot like Transsexual pornstar "Sarina Valentina"

surprisingly safe for work.

http://www.play-asia.com/lost-planet-3-paOS-13-49-en-70-5a2f.html

Only a week after release Lost Planet 3 got put up as a weekly special on play-asia for half the price. Today is the last day of the sale, and there was no media on it, and nobody seems to have bitten most likely because no one cares.

This was a good idea, but Legends 3, nope that'd never have sold.

4 is pretty easy to get into and has references to all the others. Theres also Persona 4 which is kind of the same thing. You can get SMT4 on 3ds, and Persona 4 on Vita.

Possibly, but my goal is to be the Ghostface Killah of NuChallenger. To me money is NOT the point of my business, but rather means to an ends. Having money means I can do what I want, but if having more of it means not paying people, or shitting out something that will hurt my brand I won't do it.

During a design meeting for Beatdown City the subject of money came up. At which point shawn made the best point ever on the subject.

"People treat games are like Milli Vanilli, but they need to realize they're like Wu-Tang"

I just realized some people might not get that comparison.

Milli Vanilli made a lot of money off one song, but it was found that they were just a big scam. Thats what a lot of companies are trying to get away with, they're trying to just keep cutting cost and dressing the product up as much as they can, this is where we get tons of mobile games or stuff thats like 3 hours long but has amazing visuals.

Wu-tang has a fucking story, those who don't know it should pick up "The Tao of Wu" great book about what its like growing up in NY, but to keep it short a group of teenagers does a ton of work and takes risks (like laundering money for gangs) to try and make it big, and as a group was massively successful, and each member of the group was massively successful.

Its basically a story of making a quick buck against putting everything you have into your creative work. Making as much money as possible in as short amount of time isn't actually what the goal should be, but instead building something can sustain itself and constantly providing a service.

So the windows 7 versions are what we're getting, they've got the PSP upgrades built in along with the better sound/graphics quality. I'm doing a perfect BP run on my vita, then I'll do two runs (standard and full bp) when the pc version comes out.

also did a quick writeup of what the series means to me, did my best to avoid spoilers.
http://manamaneco.blogspot.com/

I started typing a response, realized it was way too long and just stopped.

But to keep it short, Dan Houser is a shitty writer.

YES you saw that too!

Am I the only one thats going to wait to purchase GTA5 when its in its inevitable $5 bargain bin 2 or 3 years from now? Its not even close to a need to play asap game... Much less worth spending $60 just to have it day 1. Idk just doesn't seem important to me at all, I don't understand what all the fuss about playing it asap is.

People have different ideas of whats good and not, or what they want to play. I'm not going to wait 2-3 years to play a game if I can play it now. I don't usually buy stuff as soon as it comes out because like FF13-2, Resident Evil 6, Mass Effects, Tomb Raider etc stuff just drops in price within weeks but years is a whole other story, thats how you get a backlog and thats how you miss out on stuff you might have really enjoyed.

No idea, I'm still scratching mine. :(

:lol: I thought you might have been making a pun on not reading the content of that hyper link or something. Sorry, that was a bit of a paranoia moment. Yeah still no clue here either :lol:

As for the article. Hmm, I'm not sure. I don't think R* should be pressured to shoehorn a female protagonist into a game just to satisfy the critics. That isn't equality. I think we do need more good minority demograhic game protagonists, but I don't think badgering a big game developer to stick a female protagonist into a game where none was written, just because it's a very popular game, is the right way to do things. Having a token playable character just for the sake of it would be even more insulting.

If you need to shoehorn you're doing a bad job anyway. Lets look at Max Payne 3 for example, why is that theres never a woman who fires a gun in the entire game. This is fucking UNREAL considering Brazil, Sao Paulo specifically, has tons of female drug lords (like Fabiana Escobar). This is part of what makes Dan Houser a shitty writer, he gets treated like a proper writer, and he fancies himself one, but he doesn't really have scope or range in character. Hence he didn't realize the need for a "Mona sax" type character in MP3. He shoulden't be making token characters, it should be part of his creative process when trying to write a story about "hood life" or "south american drug cartels" to actually include some of the defining characteristics like women.

I don't think there is a necessity that anyone other than the creator can demand, regardless of any realism that's to be expected.

Then what standards do we hold ourselves to? Don't try to sell me realism then when I say "This isn't real" say "but I'm artistic".

do you seriously think its ok that the only time you ride with a woman in this game is if you're trying to fuck her?

The worst part in all this is that it makes the "points" in GTA5 that atry to be political even funnier, not because they're good jokes but because they describe the people who tell them.

Maybe it's like Kids to a lesser degree. In games kids don't exist unless they are saving the world or complete dicks in games you can kill everything but them..or evil themselves or a plot device like LOU. Darksiders at the begining when it's the end of the world. No kids. Skyrim they are creepy dickholes. La Noire they don't exist.

EXACTLY. Kids exist, why are they not in games. One of my favorite things about Star Ocean 1 is that the world had memorable kids, even ones that it KILLS. I wanna play MGS5 BECAUSE it has little African kids as soldiers. I wanna see how that gets handled.

That's why I liked San Andreas. I played CJ, a black dude from the hood. I mean italian mobsters are cool and all but I liked doing things from another perspective .

The trials and tribulations of a male drug dealer is going to be different from a female drug dealer,

=D>


The point I'm trying to make is that Dan Houser is a shitty writer, he's one of the better writers in games, but being a 1st grader that writes at 2nd grade level isn't a good thing. The guy doesn't know how to use females let alone write a really good one. Aside from Red Dead the guy isn't capable and it shows in GTA 4 and 5 because of how serious they try to be.

rpfl I used to indecisive, but now i'm not so sure.

id have rather had Capcom buy them out. Ya Capcom's has been loosing money but atleast they dont strike me as the type of company that wouldnt localize games that would otherwise already be made for Japan. Am I wrong there? When's the last time they didnt localize a major franchise?
Hell it could have been nice if it was Square-Enix. Atleast we'd know they are with a company that values RPG's above all.

So you'd prefer one company that basically put the kibosh on one of the biggest series in gaming history and another company that has converted all but 2 of its ips into mobile games over Sega?

They aren't exactly prince charming in this context but Capcom and S-E are even more likely to abuse the company.

Isn't Kawano the director of loads of Mega Man games? Like Legends series and Zero games?

Real Talk: Kawano is the spirit of Capcom. He's really the person that designed MegMan as a game along with Kitamura, he created all the systems that got expanded in BoF 3/4. He's the real reason Dragon dogma (which was originally going to be a Breath of Fire spinoff) exists.

He essentially made Breath of fire 1 (design/programming) by himself, and in the english version he was credited as Y. Kawano as a special thanks.

Basically when it comes to classic Capcom and game design he had a hand in it.

(and his favorite game of all time is Ys I)

This is a screenshot, holy shit

Anything with bloom lighting and a minimalist concept doesn't make it an ico knock off, this isn't even the same palette. Ico is a good early example of a lot of things, but just because a game uses one or two concepts from it that doesn't make it a knockoff. Is every platformer with a scrolling background a mario knockoff? I just mention it because people go for games like Lost in shadow and surprisingly rain for being knockoffs but they do a lot to be different especially when it comes to gameplay.

Anything with bloom lighting and a minimalist concept doesn't make it an ico knock off, this isn't even the same palette. Ico is a good early example of a lot of things, but just because a game uses one or two concepts from it that doesn't make it a knockoff. Is every platformer with a scrolling background a mario knockoff? I just mention it because people go for games like Lost in shadow and surprisingly rain for being knockoffs but they do a lot to be different especially when it comes to gameplay.

I didn't say "knockoff" even once. That automatically has negative connotations. I said "clone," which isn't a literal term; it's simply used as a means of description and/or possible inspiration, and it isn't meant as an insult in the least. As steeped in videogames as you are, I'd think you'd know that. Darksiders, for example, is a Zelda-clone. Art of Fighting, when it first came about, was a Street Fighter-clone. Saint's Row was a GTA-clone at first. These aren't insults; they're reference points to describe the games in question. The word "clone" has been used like that for years upon years in gaming circles. And yes, Rain appeared to be an Ico-clone when it was first revealed.
You reacted like I was putting Rain down, even though my post was glowingly positive.

I understand the distinction, but you seemed negative about it before, even the first few words "This no longer looks like just an Ico-clone to me." So when it did look like an Ico clone, were you not willing to play it? If you weren't, doesn't that imply some kind of negative?

Intent aside, I don't see it as an Ico clone anyway and thats the real point I was trying to make. Just replace my "negative" sounding "knockoff" with "clone" and then answer the question.

I'm going to try and catch Mark, or see if someone will pull strings to get me in. Thats how I got into the Kojima talk last year.

I'm down to get pissed at GDC if you need info on parties and stuff let me know. You're better off emailing me, CavalierGames at hotmail.com since I'm stuck working so much of the time I don't get on here much.

I'm basically just going to say the same stuff Shawn said, but its all about support. If we can strike a deal we'll send out surveys so you can get whichever version you want.

Theoretically I've been able to run the game on something like 20MBs of ram (like the whole game) so I could get it running on like anything it all comes down to what people are willing to pay for and what companies are willing to have us. If a ton of people support then we'll be in a better position to tell a console maker "Hey we think this will do great on your hardware" and if it all happens before the kickstarter is over then we can just accommodate the change.

So support us, tell your friends to support us, and tell people who aren't your friends to support us, because it will just make the game better for everyone.

Also if you have any questions about anything related to the game, as always my door is open. I don't think people should guard what they do, so my development process and even parts of source code aren't hidden away just need to ask.

It's curious none of the media ever had an issue with Playstation 3 games running in sub HD resolutions when their Xbox 360 counterparts were running in native 720p. Suddenly it's like the controversy of the decade to not run in the highest resolution possible.

Yes, the Xbox one is basically the ps3 of this gen, but not as good(hardware wise). But it was actually worse, Enchanted arms, Bayonetta, resident evil 5...the ps3 got called out on having generally inferior ports. The turning point was FF13 and me and Yama once had an argument over it (I think I still owe him some Papaya over it since I lost the bet)

So this thing is happening.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nuchallenger/treachery-in-beatdown-city-a-tactical-beat-em-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUnW-vlLqRQ

The funny thing is I just got one (of each) to test on and it runs really well on the Xperia Play and Z.

Would you be interested in doing a video if I put you on a list of channels to get a build?

Thats fine, thanks for being honest. I'm just trying to get gameplay out there since its not an easy game to grasp unless you're playing it.

I have one of those, I once wore it while some people were getting high in my hallway and really fucked up their trip.

*Kenshin Himura* wrote: ^Will get that soon as well

Yo' after TGS I'm driving to your house and raiding your fridge.

^Will get that soon as well :mrgreen:

Yo' after TGS I'm driving to your house and raiding your fridge.

I'll be expecting you then sir.

If you're actually willing to put me up for a night or two I'll make the trip from Tokyo and write it off as a vacation. I'll even bring you anything that I can (legally) bring you from the states.

I cut ass on the game, but its the first game since Phantasia that I genuinely like. No japes at how corny or gay it is (because Richard and Asbel have almost as many romantic scenes as with Cheria)

For a jaded and hateful Tales fan like me thats a hell of a compliment.