Why did the Dreamcast die again?

(Gaming discussion not related to Shenmue)

Postby QWERTY » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:53 pm

That's harsh.

But there are places online where you can get that.Try looking on eBay and Amazon.
Shouldn't be too hard to get hold of the stuff you need.

QWERTY has received a thanks from: TEEPO™
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Re: Why did the Dreamcast die again?

Postby NekoFever » Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

Fr0zen wrote:Im was just up all night playing a few games I recently "acquired" on my DC.


I think you just answered your own question in that post. Too many idiots pirating everything on it.
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Postby ys » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:47 pm

Hmmm, my DC is still working after years of use. No problem with it at all. What's common here is that lots of people had problems with their Playstations (PS2) instead! Could there be continental differences in quality?

By the way, a big games shop here is selling new Dreamcasts again 8) I don't know why they decided to stock new ones but I was thrilled to see it in any case. And apparantly they sell quite alot of them too.
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Postby Mr. Frozen » Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:50 pm

My DC is one of the first ones. It was a christmas gift so I dont know exactly the month it was purchased but it probably was nov of 99. It works jsut fine to this day. Only problems I experienced was freezing in NBA2k but that was like only once or twice.
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Postby DKMatt » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:06 am

I'm on my second dreamcast, but thats only cause i was mugged for the first before i got it home. Had it for years and i've yet to have a problem with it. Aside from sometimes i have to have a second attempt trying to run import games on, but i put that down to the DC-X rather than the dreamcast
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Postby Lan Di-sama » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:04 am

Fr0zen wrote:My DC is one of the first ones. It was a christmas gift so I dont know exactly the month it was purchased but it probably was nov of 99. It works jsut fine to this day. Only problems I experienced was freezing in NBA2k but that was like only once or twice.


Same here. My mom might have even got it on release. It's survived a lot too. My friends little brother knocked it down from about a 3 foot table, and two bars by the fan thing broke, and my sister spilled pop on the power button (it was sticking for years) and it still works fine. Sometimes I have trouble getting a game to boot, but only because the game's messed up, not the DC.
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Postby XR_END » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:59 pm

Preface: I originally posted this on the Dreamcast General board over at GameFAQs...I got a bit tired of the countless topics concerning this subject so I decided to bust out my videogame history books and teach a lesson of SEGA-101. Please keep in mind this is NOT intended as a complete mapping of the history behind SEGA, just a quick and dirty portion that eventually leads up to the demise of the company(as a hardware manufacturer).

Sega's Blunder:

Sega began its financial downfall in 1993...at this time, Nintendo's Super NES was pulling ahead of the Genesis and Sega lost focus on the 16-bit era. Instead of sticking with the widely successful Genesis board, Sega decided to implement a successor to the console. By doing so, they believed they could disregard the arrogant force behind Nintendo, and expand the age old cartridge based media to the Compact Disk. How did this all begin though? Why did Sega allow Nintendo to simply pass by without a fight?

It is not as if the creative force behind Sega did not try. The corporate unrest within the company was the single up-most determinant for the downfall of the company. Higher ranking officials such as Hayao Nakayama, insisted the next generation of hardware be instituted by Sega before any other company picked up on it. With that, the Sega CD was released as an expansion to the Genesis console in 1992. While the Sega CD was basically the same hardware as the Genesis, it did sport improvements such as: 10 extra sound channels and sprite enhancement capabilities comparable to the Super NES. This was not the problem though. By giving up the cartridge, Sega's only contender was the add-on for NEC's TurboGrafx 16. The entire purpose of the console had lost all meaning with fans and was seen as an expensive ploy to turn Sega's misfortune around.

Arrogantly, Sega began development on yet another add-on known as the 32x. In an effort to, "keep the Genesis going" development was rushed and by 1994, the add-on was released. In the same year, the consequential failure of the 32x transgressed. Fans felt alienated with the overly complicated design, inflated price, and lack of quality software. By the same time in 1995, talks of a fully-32 bit console called the Saturn arose. Soon as the rumors began, the console was released in an effort to counter-attack the Sony Playstation.

If a quote could sum up this entire fiasco, it would be from one Trip Hawkins, founder of 3DO:

Sega is sending a very confusing message to the customer, saying: "Buy Genesis," "now it's Game Gear," "no, actually it's Sega CD," "no, it's 32x," "forget all that stuff, it's Saturn," "maybe it's Titan," "how about Pico."

The Beginnings of a Faceless Company:

Before Sega was fooling around with its numerous add-ons, Nintendo contracted Sony to develop a Compact Disc addition to its Super NES in 1988. Entitled the "Super Disk", this add-on would allow further expandability, while giving Nintendo the opportunity to license the process to 3rd-party developers. Design sketches, product proposals, and pricing objectives were as far as the discussion went. Sony had no intention of giving Nintendo the option of hosting the Compact Disk media inside of a custom caddy. Sony quietly removed themselves from the project and decided to license the design-process to any development studio available. With that, Sony announced their plans in 1991 for the Playstion console. Nintendo jumped ship and conspired with Phillips to create a separate disc-based system known as the CD-i technology. Sony, apparently unabridged by this news, began production on there own console. With Nintendo's intelligence under their belt, and their background in consumer electronics, the Sony Playstation took shape.

Most of us know what happened after this...Sega rushed to compete against the Playstation, but lost due to lack of brand-name 3rd-party titles.

Sega's Final Swansong:

Development of the Dreamcast began as early as 1996. Sega, in an effort to improve the weaknesses with the Saturn, had one last chance to make things right. Hideki Sato wasn't going to allow any competitor advance ahead of the console market as with the Saturn. NEC, Hitachi, Yamaha, and Creative Labs were contacted to begin the design process on the next-generation of hardware. Sega of Japan and Sega of American both spear-headed separate projects using similar hardware, save for different manufacturers. With the hardware under its belt, Sega required a development environment which improved on the complicated architecture of the Saturn. Sega contacted Microsoft, and arranged a deal to take the industry-standard DirectX-API's, and specialize a set perfectly in-tuned with the hardware. Its important to understand that although Sega's API's were faster and technically more adept to hardware, Microsoft's environment was standardized and well-known in the industry. This was an especially hard decision as Sega intended to create visually stunning graphical architecture, but still allow 3rd-party developers the ability to easily learn the software environment.

I'm not going to discuss every piece of hardware and the quips involved with them, but keep this quote in mind from Sega's CEO(at the time) Shoichiro Irimajiri:

"When I was involved in the auto industry, to launch a new car it cost US$600 million, the same as to launch this tiny machine!"

As Sega of Japan and Sega of America continued there friendly rivalry, talks of a DVD component for the console was in discussion. Sega felt the technology was in its infant stages and enough was not known about the media to make any useful conceptions for the Dreamcast. The fact was, Sega did not have the funds to add the feature to there console and even if they had, it would inflate the costs of the console by over twice the original goal. To make things worse, Sega chose Sega of Japan's Katana design and disregarded Sega of America's Black Belt console as an uncertain alternative. This spawned a law-suite by 3dfx Technologies vs. Sega over the contractual agreement regarding the graphics card manufacturer's design which was supposed to be implemented into the next-generation of Sega's console. Eventually, Sega settled outside of court for 10.5 million USD and all charges were dropped. Still, discussions continued and Sega went as far to include a Dreamcast DVD mock-up on display at E3's May 2000 showing. Rumors were put to rest and it was unofficially announced that the Dreamcast would be the first console to include the DVD format. It wasn't until days later that Sega's Charles Bellfield shot-down any rumor regarding the digital media. Once again, fans felt alienated by Sega's faulty marketing ploys.

The Unstoppable Force Known as Sony:

During this marketing nightmare that Sega created for itself, Sony was already preparing for its next-generation of hardware. Instead of contracting with 3rd-party hardware manufactures, Sony centralized the entire development of the console within the company. Heading the development of the Playstation 2, Ken Kuratagi, the creator of the original Playstation, wasn't wasting any time. He announced the console would ship with DVD media and movie playability, backwards compatibility with the PSX, and would render "more than 16 million polygons per second". Adding to this unbelievable repertoire, Kuratagi was quoted stating the Emotion Engine was "as fast as most super computers." Not only that, George Lucas was publicly endorsing the graphical prowess of the console before it was even projected from the drawing boards. The media instantly picked the story up and the following day the industry rejoiced. Not only had Sony trounced Sega's hardware projections, they had in affect created a machine capable of cinematic graphics.

This infamous quote from Sega's Bernie Stolar sums the bitter rivalry between the two companies:

"On paper Sony's machine sounds impressive, but the fact is it is still on paper. Dreamcast is here now. Frankly, Sony really has their work cut out for them creating a machine with the specs they unveiled on Tuesday and supporting it with a strong line-up of games. With a launch just one year away, [that] will be a challenge. And while Sony is working to create that hardware, Sega will already be in the marketplace with Dreamcast, building our installed base and developing an impressive library of games."

Sega was noticeably stirred by the announcement and instantly formed a strategy to release the console in the U.S. The eastern market was already under-taken by Sony's suspect hardware announcement.

Sega Strikes Back:

Not wasting any time, Sega began production for the impending release of the console in the states. At the Spring '99 Tokyo Game Show, Soul Calibur was showed with great affect, to an amazed crowd. Namco was the driving force in sales for the original Playstation, and if they perceived the Dreamcast as worthy, so did fans. Not far after, Sega announced the reintegration of the Phantasy Star Team. Details were lacking, but speculation was rampant regarding a new game in the Phantasy Star universe. Rumors aside, Sega was actually developing a new RPG entitled Eternal Arcadia(Skies of Arcadia), instead of the aforementioned. Either way, Sega had pulled some interesting marketing tactics for the little console without trying.

On the 28th of July, Sega publicly announced the advertising campaign for the Dreamcast. The "It's Thinking" slogan was produced to invoke a sense of artificial intelligence for the little grey box. Something more than a simple piece of hardware...whatever the case, petitions were posted all over the Internet demanding Sega resurrect the "Sega Scream". Unfortunately, fans screams fell onto deaf ears. With that said, the Sega Dreamcast was released on September 9, 1999 and shattered sales records. It was, at the time, the fastest selling console ever.

This is not to say the release was free from any fallacies. Retail outlets were plagued with angry customers who received poorly pressed games, or the Japanese equivalent. Not only that, lack of the PowerVR chip-set delayed further production of the console. Sega could not fulfill orders to meet demand and ended up losing sales left and right. Fans were also confused with the alleged, "out of the box" online capabilities. Gamer's expected fully-implemented online multiplayer, but were left with a simple Web Browser. Sega fired back and claimed the delay was only for a short period of time. Meanwhile, NFL2k became the best-selling game on the console and further inflamed the situation. Sony's hyped hardware was right around the corner and Sega needed something to keep the fans interested.

What Happened to EA:

Since the Genesis days, Sega and Electronics Arts were an indomitable force. Releasing successful sports franchises one after the other, they were an unstoppable team. What happened? Why did EA disregard the Dreamcast? Beginning with the Saturn days, EA and Sega shifted onto different projects and views. Not to get too much into the details of the rivalry, Sega always had a different stance on the sports genre. Sony, seeing an open door, grabbed the developer for many exclusive releases on the Playstation console. From here on out, Sony had banked on EA's Madden franchise that began on the Genesis. Now, fast forward to the pre-release of the Dreamcast. Sega and EA had been in talks for a while regarding their famous sports franchises and the apparent release of Sega's new console. While the talks never went far, progress was being made between the two houses. Unfortunately, outside sources stuck their foot in, or rather their pocket book, and offered the publisher an exclusivity deal. Sony, had once again, secured another hold onto the market.

However, this was not without controversy. As the Dreamcast release progressed, and sales of NFL2k spiked to unsurmountable heights, EA president John Riccitello found himself under fire for not supporting the console. Apparently, Forbes Magazine had made a direct comment to the company for their failure to support the developer. As a result, EA had lost an estimated 20% increase in profits for the 4th quarter of 2004. According to records for EA's earnings statement for the month of July 2000(first quarter), they had incurred a loss of 30% regarding revenue. Turns out the arrogant acts of the company cost the publisher a shot in the foot.

Sony Tightens the Vice:

Sony released the Playstation 2 in Japan on March 4, 2000...Sony's marketing strategy was simple: Hype the console, provide scarce amounts of hardware(to inflate price), and advertise the hardware capabilities of the product as much as possible(games are insignificant). What can I say, it worked. Sega was forced to live up to the online hype(after all, it was the only thing they had over the PS2). The Japanese had enjoyed online play since January and things were looking up. Unfortunately, Sega failed to pull-out the stops for the Western market. Online play, which was eventually released later that year, had not lived up to the hype. The first online game, Chu Chu Rocket, was plagued with lag-spikes and slow-down. Gamer's pleaded for an Ethernet Adapter and more dedicated servers. Sega rushed to comply and released the Broadband Adapter, set-up more servers in key cities(Chicago, Los Angeles...ect.), and broke into the multiplayer shooter/sports market. This failed to push enough units and Sega once again lowered the price of the console. It even came down to a ludicrous idea of receiving $150 USD rebate for your console if you signed up for 3 months of SegaNET. Failing to profit, Sega began an assault on the gaming front and released some of the most unique and entertaining games of all time. This followed suit until late 2001 when Sega finally realized the dream was over. Abruptly, Sega discontinued production of the Dreamcast on March 31, 2002:(

SOURCES: Steven L. Kent, The Ultimate History of Video Games | Rusel Demaria & Johnny L. Wilson, High Score! The Illustrated History of Electronic Games

Now, I am well aware of the fact that the Bleemcast fiasco, Utopia/modchip endeavor, and the countless cancelled games were not mentioned in this history-lesson. The purpose of this is to enlighten those who do not know the main reason behind the downfall of Sega's financial sector. Feel free to point out any errors or inconsistencies in my lesson. :)
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Postby reporter » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:13 pm

Because sega ran out of cash
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Postby Cyberman » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:14 pm

^ I doubt that.
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Postby Bluecast » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:10 pm

danielalan I have that book.
I have read it over and over.
Funny Steven L Kent is the one of the first press to leak out about this console in america in 1998.
In Japan the PS2 when it Debuted was the cheapest DVD player and the hotest selling thing for PS2 was the matrix movie on DVD.

Cyberman Sega was supporting the Master system still in some parts of the world the Genesis, 32x ,Saturn,pico and the Dreamcast and not to mention its Failed hand helds ,its a very well known fact Sega Was struggling financially, hell even a game on the Dreamcast came out in Japan Called Segaga and it was about how sega was going bankrupt and it was an odd game where you had to save sega.
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Postby XR_END » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:48 pm

I can't seam to put the book down either BLUECAST...One of the most informative and entertaining pieces of gaming literature to ever grace my eyes. Excellent author.

"In Japan the PS2 when it Debuted was the cheapest DVD player and the hotest selling thing for PS2 was the matrix movie on DVD."

That statement tells us a lot about the success of the console ;)

SEGAGAGA is an exceptional game(if only it was translated...). Really shows the state of mind Sega's developers were in at the time. Just a reminder of how unique Sega really was.
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Postby adny2 » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:53 pm

if you guys REALLY want a good example of why the awsome DREAMCAST went under too soon.

here...

http://www.pcgamereview.com/PRD_157026_3169crx.aspx

Awsome titles get either poor, or in this case, the WRONG recognition. I know currently it's a PS2 game, but if the media cant credit a good product to its rightful company...then the public is miss informed and a great company like SEGA is getting the wrong attention.

this link just pisses me off to no good end!
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Re: Why did the Dreamcast die again?

Postby Mr. Frozen » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:12 pm

NekoFever wrote:
Fr0zen wrote:Im was just up all night playing a few games I recently "acquired" on my DC.


I think you just answered your own question in that post. Too many idiots pirating everything on it.


Dont know how I missed this post.

But I didnt start pirating until they stopped making games for the DC. How the hell would I be taking money away from them if the games aren't even available for me to purchase in the first place? Some games I burned such as Headhunter or Rez, I couldn't even get here in the states. I purchased Shenmue II because that was back when the DC was still alive, although it was hanging on a thin thread.

To tell you the truth I didnt even know you could burn DC games until late in its lifespan.
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Postby ys » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:08 pm

Adny, damn, that is really bad indeed. I mailed them about it just in case no one else had done it. I hate it when things like this happen in reviews. And often Sega seems to be the ones that get forgotten...I've noticed this a couple of times before.
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Postby adny2 » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:42 pm

Im going to follow your lead and mail them too...

and if SEGA would only read my emails, i'll send them a copy of this link too...
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