Review The Last Game You Beat

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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby OL » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:04 pm

Just beat Rule of Rose and Haunting Ground back-to-back. Kind of funny too, because I wasn't thinking about it at all before going in that the two games are kind of similar in theme.
"19-year-old girl rescuing a hapless dog which then acts as an AI companion for the rest of the game, trying to protect the primarily defenseless girl."
Same general idea in both, but with vastly different execution between them.

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Rule of Rose is a difficult one to properly form an opinion on, because my general philosophy in judging games basically states that if one accomplishes what it set out to do, then it's a good game. If it fails, it's a bad game. There are always exceptions to any rule (of rose... ha! :spinnn: ), of course. But while this one isn't necessarily an exception (it certainly isn't bad), it really seems intent on tearing your opinion in two different directions, between the two most basic components of any videogame; aesthetics and gameplay.

Rule of Rose's main goal is to present a very surreal, not-quite-linear, multi-layered story with lots to analyze around every turn. And in aiming for that particular goal, it succeeds in a very big way. It's absolutely one-of-a-kind from an aesthetic standpoint. It really does look and sound unlike anything else I've ever played, and the story is insane to the point of brilliance. It could have benefited from a larger budget, of course, but considering the small development studio it came from, the presentational aspects come off as pretty damn remarkable. The story will inevitably leave you scratching your head over most of it, but there definitely seems to be an explanation behind almost everything. I'm still trying to figure it all out; the final chapter supposedly offers clarity if you properly explore the environment, but I was quick on the draw and just rushed to the end, leaving me a bit dazed and confused (there must be a sex joke in that sentence somewhere...). I'll have to go back one day and properly explore the last chapter to understand things better.
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However, while the story, visuals, and sound were all developed with a pretty extraordinary level of quality, the gameplay doesn't really fare so well. It's competent, in that it allows you to run from story point to story point with relative ease. But that's just about where the competence ends. The combat feels entirely forced in to pad things out, or rather to allow the game to compete with rival survival horror titles. It feels like a complete afterthought; you can swing a weapon, but there's never much guarantee that you'll hit anything. You can try to stomp enemies that you've knocked down, but chances are best that you'll miss them entirely (single most useless stomp attack in the history of gaming). More than anything, the combat forces you to run circles around your enemies, occasionally stopping to weakly swing a knife or stick before continuing on with your manic sprint. It isn't fun at all, and more often than not it'll just frustrate you. It hurts the game in a pretty big way, and at one point near the end, I was almost ready to just give up on the game. And I've never been one to rage-quit. This might not all sound that much different from many other survival horror titles, but the implementation is definitely at a much lower level.

I think the one bright spot in the gameplay involves Brown, the dog you rescue early on. The game basically employs a system in which Brown can sniff out items for you based on the scents of items you've already found. For example, if you need to find a specific character and you happen to have something that they dropped earlier on, Brown will be able to sniff the item, then lead you directly to that character. It's incredibly simple and almost acts as an in-game hint system, but it works well and it makes you appreciate the hell out of Brown (which is important, since his involvement ends up being pretty central to the story).
But really, that's only a very small bright spot in comparison to the otherwise pretty dismal gameplay.
So, as I was saying before, it's like the game tears you in two directions; It'll make you fall in love with the visuals, sound, and story, but at the same time make you absolutely despise the half-hearted combat gameplay. It accomplishes its aesthetic-based goals with flying colors, but fails in just about anything else.
In the end this really, truly, utterly is not a game you play for "fun"; it's a game you play to feel satisfaction out of an intelligently challenging story (such a rare sight in gaming).
This is a warning and a recommendation all in one.


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Haunting Ground, however, is downright quality in almost every way. It's vintage Capcom, circa 2004-2006. I genuinely feel that Capcom produced some of their greatest games ever during that short couple of years; Resident Evil 4, Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams, Devil May Cry 3. And amidst all of that excellence came Haunting Ground, unfortunately played by few, but still containing the quality that one would expect out of that bright, shiny point in Capcom's history.
I've personally been looking forward to this game for years. I took note of it back before its release, but somehow never managed to procure a copy when it was still new. It finally came back to mind this year and, despite carrying a pretty heavy price for a used game, struck me as something I ought to get now, lest I never get to play it at all.
And my oh my, what a great decision that was.

As could be expected from Capcom around that time, the game is absolutely gorgeous to look at; even now, with all the flash of newer HD graphics and all the explode-y spectacles that tend to arise from them, Haunting Ground still looks downright beautiful, thanks very much to a strangely "mature" sense of art design. Sure, the protagonist might be a buxom blonde college student graced with a very generous case of the bouncies, but her design feels kind of old-fashioned in a way. It's distinct without going over the top, and in a way actually feels very classy. The rest of the game follows suit of course, whether we're talking about retarded doll-obsessed gardeners, flip-shit demented maids, or the environments themselves.

Story-wise the game works just fine, though I did feel that it leaves blank spots in a few places. Obviously the actual presentation of everything is excellent, as was Capcom-standard at the time; the voice work is solid, the cutscene direction is great, and the sense of mystery pushing the game forward is very effective. Problem is, I don't think the story is properly revealed by the end. I think a greater abundance of findable text documents could have been beneficial (such as diaries, letters, that kind of thing), but they're strangely pretty few and far between. By the end of the game, I didn't feel like I really understood the antagonist's intentions very well, nor did I know much at all about the backgrounds or origins of the very, very few characters you come across (there are really only about 6 characters in the entire game). And this actually bothered me a little; I thought the story could have been utterly excellent -- maybe even classic -- if only there would have been a bit more elaboration. Shouldn't have been hard with so few characters.
Of course, there's also the possibility that I just didn't find every bit of story-developing info in the game. But I took my time with it, so I doubt that's the case. It's more likely that the details just... aren't there.
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Either way, the gameplay is the exact opposite of Rule of Rose; it's tight, it's responsive, and it feels smooth as hell. "Fighting" isn't really required with this one; Fiona, the protagonist, is very much helpless in the face of the crazed, stalking enemies she comes across, so the best option is of course... to run away.
As I've been mentioning elsewhere, Haunting Ground may have begun as an idea for the Clock Tower series, and the gameplay is the main element that reflects that. As you explore rooms and solve puzzles, you'll occasionally be met by one maniac or another, stalking you for their own devious intentions. Your best course of action is to turn tail and dart the other way, hopefully putting enough distance between you and them as possible before finding half-sanctuary on a designated "hiding spot." Spend too much time in the vicinity of one of these stalkers, and Fiona is likely to start panicking, which results in the screen going high-contrast while Fiona desperately tries to escape, independent of the player's input.

You do not want this to happen.

The whole setup is wildly effective in creating tension and fear. If I'm entirely honest, the basic concept itself -- that of a veritable "chase and escape simulator" -- is one of my favorite in all of gaming. Not many games do it, granted, but this is the best I've ever seen it done. I want to see it used more.

Along with all of this, Fiona also befriends a white German Shepherd named Hewie, and with his presence comes a cool little "dog training" mechanic that's relegated entirely to the right thumbstick. Pull down on the stick and Fiona tells Hewie to come to her; press up, and she tells him to attack or investigate something; press right, and she'll praise him for a job well done; press left, and she'll scold him for not listening. It's very fun to play with, and as the game progresses, you'll actually notice that Hewie's AI is slowly altering itself as he learns to obey Fiona. Very subtle, but also very cool. Being a PS2 game there are a few hiccups here and there (I generally try not to expect too much out of heyday AI), but on the whole it's a very, very good idea, and the implementation is great for its time. It really does make it feel like Hewie is independent, and not just a second character you're directly controlling.

Maybe it's just that I haven't played an old Capcom great in so long, but this one hit me pretty hard. I absolutely loved the hell out of it. The runtime is a little on the short side; only about 8 hours on the first time through. But that's pretty much in-line with old PS1 horror games, so I can't hold it against it all too much. All I know is that by the end, I really wanted to just play it some more. I really wish Capcom were still in the business of making slightly smaller, less-bombastic games like this one. This is the kind of game that truly deserves an HD port, not just because it would look absolutely phenomenal if upscaled like that, but because more people should play it. This should be a classic, but it's been relegated to obscurity.
Damn shame.

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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Kenny » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:18 am

Walking Dead: 400 Days.

Overall very excellent. The only complaint I have is that, because it's so short, a couple of the chapters jump ahead in time and tell you of events that happened SINCE the choices you made. That really disappointed me since it felt like the game pre-chose my path rather than let me try to prevent or allow anything to happen.

Regardless, I really enjoyed the interwoven narrative. Though I hope Season 2 doesn't try to do any "jumping ahead" stuff. The beauty of the first season is that it made me feel I was responsible for almost everything that happened based on my decisions. Regardless, it's still one of the most compelling gaming narratives to come out in a very long time.

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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Henry Spencer » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:49 pm

So glad that Vita is getting The Walking Dead series. Got to snatch them up.

Excellent reviews Orange, for all three horror titles. You must be really in that mood lately! Planning on playing anymore horror titles? Or feeling a bit burned out by them by now? :lol:

OL wrote: Problem is, I don't think the story is properly revealed by the end. I think a greater abundance of findable text documents could have been beneficial (such as diaries, letters, that kind of thing), but they're strangely pretty few and far between. By the end of the game, I didn't feel like I really understood the antagonist's intentions very well, nor did I know much at all about the backgrounds or origins of the very, very few characters you come across (there are really only about 6 characters in the entire game). And this actually bothered me a little; I thought the story could have been utterly excellent -- maybe even classic -- if only there would have been a bit more elaboration. Shouldn't have been hard with so few characters.
Of course, there's also the possibility that I just didn't find every bit of story-developing info in the game. But I took my time with it, so I doubt that's the case. It's more likely that the details just... aren't there.


I can actually answer this question, despite never playing Haunting Ground. Noboru Sugimura, the writer, unfortunately passed away halfway through development.
He was also known as the writer of Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 0, Onimusha series (yes, every single one, aside from Dawn of Dreams), Gun Survivor 4 (AKA Resident Evil: Dead Aim; the Cavia developed Resi Evil game), Clock Tower 3... the list goes on and on.

He was easily Capcom's greatest writer and was handpicked by Yoshiki Okamoto himself to write Resident Evil 2 way back in the day, when Okamoto was still at Capcom. His tragic and very sudden passing definitely effected Haunting Ground, since Sugimura only did the initial draft, never finishing his work.

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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby OL » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:08 am

Henry Spencer wrote:Excellent reviews Orange, for all three horror titles. You must be really in that mood lately! Planning on playing anymore horror titles? Or feeling a bit burned out by them by now? :lol:


Well thank you. Yeah, I've been in the mood for horror pretty hard lately. I was planning to keep going once I finished Haunting Ground, and actually had Kuon lined up and ready to go... but Haunting Ground turned out to be such a great experience that I'm not sure I want to try to follow it up with another horror game so soon. It's not really that I'm burnt out at all; I just don't want my experience with Kuon to come off as pale because the last game I played was so great. Does that make sense?
I really, really like Kuon. Played a few hours in it a few years ago, and it definitely has a lot going for it. I just think I ought to wait a while longer before playing any other horror games.

Actually, if anything, I really just feel like playing Haunting Ground again. It's rare that I ever get the urge to play a game again right after finishing it, but I'm feeling it now.
I'm trying to wait though, because I'm planning to get a new video capture device that hopefully will be able to capture in higher quality than what I've done before, and I'd like to be able to record my next playthrough in hard mode so that if I ever get the urge, I can make a video for the game.
Until then I'll probably just be playing a level here and there in random games. Ghost in the Shell, Onimusha, some other stuff.


Henry Spencer wrote:I can actually answer this question, despite never playing Haunting Ground. Noboru Sugimura, the writer, unfortunately passed away halfway through development.
He was also known as the writer of Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 0, Onimusha series (yes, every single one, aside from Dawn of Dreams), Gun Survivor 4 (AKA Resident Evil: Dead Aim; the Cavia developed Resi Evil game), Clock Tower 3... the list goes on and on.

He was easily Capcom's greatest writer and was handpicked by Yoshiki Okamoto himself to write Resident Evil 2 way back in the day, when Okamoto was still at Capcom. His tragic and very sudden passing definitely effected Haunting Ground, since Sugimura only did the initial draft, never finishing his work.


Oh shoot. Yeah, I was looking up info on some of the staff the other day and read about him. I read that he'd passed away, but I didn't realize that it was actually before Haunting Ground was finished. What a bummer that is.
Well at least the presence of a few blank spots makes a bit more sense now. Strangely, it's almost kind of nice that they left the script as it was, without trying to fill it in further; in an odd way, it almost seems kind of respectful to his final bit of work.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Kenny » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:19 am

Last of Us.

I really don't know how to feel about this game. I just don't. The prologue was so strong but when the actual game started, I felt like it fell apart at times.

I'll continue venting in spoiler tags.

First off, Joel is a FUCKING ASSHOLE. I fucking hate this guy. He starts off decent enough in the prologue but it seems like after his daughter died, he became this stone cold uncaring motherfucker. I mean, I get it. Fine. But he's the main fucking character. I'm supposed to LIKE HIM. But he just comes off as a twat in every interaction he has with every character.

The only time he's nice is near the end when he and Ellie become close, but I think it's more to do with that fact he moved on and decided to adopt Ellie has his surrogate daughter. Come the ending, he basically gives humankind the finger by taking Ellie for his own selfish reasons rather than let them operate on her (even if it will kill her). Seriously, fuck this guy. I thought he was a humorless drag before but after that he became downright appalling. A character like this would've been fine in an ensemble cause you don't have to exclusively focus on him, but i'll get to that.

The rest of the story was okay. At times, it was great. Filled with great character moments and interactions (Ellie is a pretty great character if overdone with quirk factor, and man I was waiting for Joel to tell her to settle down on the cussing). But I didn't feel like the game started until we met up with Bill. Everything involving Tess after the prologue was just...forced. Not only that, they were talking about things I didn't witness which was my problem with The Walking Dead DLC "400 Days". It felt like I stumbled into some clique and awkwardly followed them around everywhere while they tell each other inside jokes. This wasn't so much of a problem with Bill cause it was treated like "oh that crazy ol' guy, he owes me a favor for a thing I did him" which worked fine.

I feel like this would've been better as an ensemble. Mainly cause Joel is too unlikable but the breaks in the narrative were also a bit off putting. One of the greatest things about Zombie related anything is that it happens to a group. They work together, they turn on each other, they lose or gain new members. Take that away and you basically have a situation that only affects two people which I felt only worked half the time.

Speaking of which, I kept forgetting this was a ZOMBIE game. It felt more like a Disaster-type game which I felt like it should've been to begin with. The only significance to making this Zombie themed was to make Ellie a MacGuffin (and perhaps to sell more copies by cashing in on the current Zombie fad) but I bet there could've been other ways to go about it.

Lastly, the actual gameplay. Everything was top notch but the Combat was either fine or real fucking terrible. My characters were way outnumbered and underpowered, especially against those insta-kill Clicker things. It felt like they were really wanting me to go stealth, which I was able to do except in times where an enemy comes WAY out of nowhere and starts blasting me to hell while me character calmly takes out the gun, dissembles it, cleans out EACH part with a cloth, carefully puts it back together, polishes it, nods in approval for a job well-done, then FUCKING SHOOTS THEM. The character doesn't do that you say? THEY MIGHT AS FUCKING WELL HAVE FOR THE TIME IT TAKES THEM TO RELOAD AND SHOOT!

Then there's the dumb AI partner. And the fact the game likes to default to an empty weapon from time to time. And R1 is used to reload (WTF, what's wrong with the Square button?! I kept mixing the two up). And the fact upgrading the weapons makes me feel like my character is just good enough rather than powerful. Yeah, these things kept it from being fun for me.


Overall, despite my complaints, I'd give it a solid 7/10. When it was good, it was really good. And when it wasn't, it was just annoying as hell. Far from terrible but not exactly perfect either.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby OL » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:05 am

Kenny wrote:
First off, Joel is a FUCKING ASSHOLE. I fucking hate this guy. He starts off decent enough in the prologue but it seems like after his daughter died, he became this stone cold uncaring motherfucker. I mean, I get it. Fine. But he's the main fucking character. I'm supposed to LIKE HIM. But he just comes off as a twat in every interaction he has with every character.


I always find it kind of interesting that this is a requirement for a lot of people in regards to the videogame medium specifically, but it's generally accepted for a protagonist to be like that in any other medium. It's pretty much the reason so many people hate Kane & Lynch, for example.
Not criticizing or anything (I usually feel the same way about these kinds of things, K&L notwithstanding), I just find it an interesting aspect of videogames as opposed to movies, books, or tv.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Thief » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm

One of the main reasons I liked The Last of Us so much was because of Joel's character.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Bluecast » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:47 pm

Breaking Bad Walter is a complete asshole. Evil bastard. I hate him and we are supposed to hate him. So yeah while TLoU does not interest me and can't judge. Should be fine to have a game like that.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Bea

Postby Kenny » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:50 pm

I haven't played Kane and Lynch apart from a demo, but even in games where you're supposed to do terrible things chances are the protag is likable or sympathetic in some way. Like in Manhunt the guy is forced to do those things. CJ and Tommy Vercetti crack jokes making light I'd the situation. Even bastards like Sephiroth and Kain are revered by many and I get the appeal, cause its not their actions we like it's the way they present themselves.

Here's the thing about Walter White: HE'S FUNNY. He's knowledgeable about chemistry which makes him interesting when he uses it for bad things. He initially treats his peers and family with respect. He starts off as a really nice guy to everyone. Not really the case here with Joel. If something traumatic would've happened to Walt personally, in some ways he would've gotten over it. Not the case with ol' Joel here:

I just found Joel to be a mood killing macho prick. Picking fights here and there, not being appreciative of the help or favors he's given. He's just straight up rude and then selfish as fuck at the end. "Fuck the rest of the world, I want Ellie for myself! MYSELF YOU HEAR?!"

If Naughty Dog's intention was to make you sit through an immoral jackass of a character to make it a more intense and serious adventure to contrast its Happy Go Lucky adventure series Uncharted, then hats off to them. But if I'm supposed to like him, well then Christ it didn't work for me. It didn't feel like he was in constant pain over his loss, which would have made me understand.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Thief » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:44 pm

More last of us spoilers...

While he was very selfish at the end, I think it's very clear that he doesn't believe that there was hope for mankind, at least not hope for a cure. There's definitely no guarantee that the Fireflies would have been able to find a cure, especially if they would have been killed off first. Their group wasn't exactly flourishing.

I honestly believe that the things that Tommy and his wife were trying to accomplish was the real hope for the future, trying to build communities that are self sustaining and not under military control.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Riku Rose » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:45 am

Last Of Us:

^Nah Joel was just being selfish. He didn't want to loose a daughter for a second time and he even starts calling her things like 'babygirl'.

With Joel I think the fact you see him before the outbreak helped me like the character more. You see he was a hard working guy who was trying to get by with his daughter. You still see glimpses of that person when he does the little look at his watch or how emotional he get's at seeing the photo his brother wants him to have. After the fallout between him and Ellie in the house when she runs away from Tommy's hideout I really started to like him and their little chats they would have. Just stuff like when he said he wanted to be a singer and they joke about it.

The ending left me feeling uneasy about him and eventually I came to just accept he was a villain. I thought it was well done how he changes about 3-4 times over the course of the game.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Jokatech19 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:43 pm

Has anyone reviewed ME2? I'm so lazy right now, I can't find the energy to do it.
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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Henry Spencer » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:05 pm

Killer is Dead.

The storyline took a nosedive towards the end and didn't feel like what they were originally going to go for. Has that "changed ending" feel to it. It turns into a manga story, essentially. And it's abrupt too. Plus, some of the characters are criminally underdeveloped. Almost feels like a troll. Aside from that though, I think it was a pretty intense storyline overall sprinkled with some funny humour in there. It's definitely the most atmospheric game Suda has made for a long time though and was a pleasant surprise, since the journey through the story was really fun. The game is pretty self aware, like all of Suda's games.

The presentation is also worth commenting on, the cutscenes were beautiful and Japanese voice acting (yup, play it with Japanese, the lip sync is terrible, but the quality is much more preferable to the crappy English dub, here) was really good.

Aesthetically the game was a real treat. Wonderful music (Best Akira Yamaoka OST; including Snatcher and Silent Hill, here), brilliant art direction, weird character designs/concepts, the trademark Grasshopper sound effects make a return. The English text even bounces up and down, killer7 style.

The actual combat was really satisfying and felt like a direct evolution of No More Heroes system; far less clunky, more fluid, lots of fun ways to kill enemies, some cracking boss battles and different enemy types with their own styles of fighting. The only downside is no lock on camera.

The game is chock full of side missions (that easily add more than double the game time, plus the variety is great with them).

Overall one of my favourite games this year. Recommend that you rent, rather than buy though, since the main story missions only land you in the 9-10 hour range, if that's the only reason you're playing it. Definitely my favourite Suda game this generation.

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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Kenny » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:24 pm

Infamous.

You know, I liked it but there were things that prevented me from loving it. Stuff like issues with the controls, latching onto things or gliding on them when I don't want Cole to. Also the world is big...but I found it really annoying to get from point A to point B. Especially when I die and have to go back there ALL over again.

The story was cool but I was a little disappointed that it wasn't as deep as it could've been. The plot twist was nice and all, but I was more interested in the bad guys you came across. Not a whole lot of detail was given about them in the grand scheme of things.

Plus it was TOO DAMN DIFFICULT. Hoards of enemies 10 miles away able to sharp shoot you while my little bolts of electricity barely does anything to them? Whose idea was that anyway?! Especially when they introduce the fog, it just became too overwhelming to the point where I had to stop playing cause it was getting too frustrating.

I'm looking forward to playing the sequel but I hope they fixed the above issues.

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Re: Review The Last Game You Beat

Postby Axm » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:29 am

I agree. The things you mentioned just made the game feel like a chore sometimes.
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