RPG's thoughts/news doesn't fit elsewhere

[Jokatech19]

Actually it's you friend. If you listened to what I said, rpg's have had a history of being strictly classified as you just did. If things didn't broaden out over time, we'd still be living in caves. At ease to you and get educated.

When you think of a genre and you can only think of particular games, songs, movies, or whatever, you are still thinking in a box. Technology wouldn't be where it is today if people didn't stray from that thinking. Before there was ever Final Fantasy there were paper RPG's in their purest form. The foundation consists of simply playing the role of a fantasy character and controlling minute details in their action. It's obvious that people like you have forgotten these precursors and can only consider something an RPG if it is just like a game you played. That's simple thinking. Final Fantasy is nothing more than a popular type of RPG format. It isn't the definition.

[OL]

Did I mention Final Fantasy as the "definition" of the RPG format?
Why do you think I mentioned four different RPG series? The other three I mentioned do a fine job of covering the spectrum of RPG styles.

Other than that, I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. RPG's do have a history of being classified by a specific variety of features. Of course that's true. But guess what? That's how all genre's are defined. We classify them that way so we can easily describe the differences between them.
What's the difference between Gears of War and Command and Conquer? They both feature big guns and stuff blowing up, right? So as long as we're "thinking outside the box" they must be pretty similar, right?
No, one's is a third-person shooter, the other is a real-time strategy. One features run-and-gun twitch gameplay, the other involves managing resources and directing troops to battle the enemy.
Genres are classified the way they are not because someone is being closed-minded about the aspects attributed to to those styles. Genres are classified the way they are so we can easily tell the difference between a variety of games.

RPGs are generally classified by stat management, the ability to customize your characters, and the ability to level up in order to defeat stronger enemies. That's not being closed-minded, that's just what the genre is.
Shenmue only presents the barest shadow of those features in it's move improvement system. Other than that? It has nothing to do with RPGs whatsoever. You don't manage specific stats, you can't customize Ryo's "gear", and it's entirely possible to beat the game without leveling up his moves at all.
Thus, it's not an RPG.
Adventure games, on the other hand, are generally classified by a strong emphasis on story, conversing with other characters, the collecting of items to use in a particular place, etc etc... They generally feature action as well, but the action is usually downplayed and doesn't represent the backbone of the gameplay.
Full Throttle, Beyond Good and Evil, Broken Sword, Shadow of Destiny, Psychonauts... all adventure games. Hell, even something like Resident Evil would be considered an adventure game had the term "survival horror" not been coined.
Shenmue has far more in common with all of those games than it does with Baldur's Gate, Dragon Quest, or Shadowrun.
It's not a matter of "thinking in a box". It's a matter of properly classifying a game based on what its components add up to, and the fulcrum upon which its gameplay rests. Shenmue is all about walking about town, conversing with people to advance the very focused story, and collecting items to keep the game flowing. No customization, no stat management, and only the slightest bit of leveling up (which in the end isn't even necessary to complete the game).
It's an adventure game, not an RPG.

[Clint]

It's both an RPG and an Adventure game.

How's that?

[OL]

Not so good, since it's not an RPG.

[Henry Spencer]

Shenmue is a game that defies genre placement, in my opinion. I'd class it is an adventure game, strictly speaking (as in, on Orange's terms). Shenmue is a bit of a hybrid game, the "FREE" sections play like a point and click adventure game, but with a controller, like the blue man was saying, but it also has more freedom than a point and click adventure (since they all are linear, without hardly any mini-games normally, unless you include the puzzles).

But yeah, it all simply goes back to the adventure genre. It just isn't an RPG, sorry.

[Jokatech19]

I agree. Shenmue doesn't have a classification directly per say. That's why it started the FREE system in Suzuki's words. But regardless. RPG is the original genre. Every other game genre comes form RPG. You originally started playing the role of a character and having freedom. Take all the games that he listed and line them up with Syphon Filter and Super Mario 64. If you pay close attention, you can notice that adventure and action are very similar and both borrow from RPG's like just about every other game. They both have the focus put on mission style game play while even though you have assignments as well in Shenmue and Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, you have the focus directed on your character and free will in a free world. That's the RPG idea. It has nothing to do like I said before with leveling up, battling etc. Those are additives that fans have now become familiar with. It's like band aid. Everyone thinks that its the what the item is. It's not. It's a franchise name that has taken over to the point of a monopoly over time. This has nothing to do with Shenmue. An RPG is not leveling up and customization!!! Those are what the predominant RPG today does. Original RPG's had none of that. They originally represented freedom and creation of your own path. Living out a fantasy. Let's not forget that games are works of art by artists who all want uniquely to express themselves. No matter what genre it is, it was given birth to by the concept of ROLE PLAYING. SHENMUE IS THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX. What that means is YES, I take components of an idea (RPG) and then I make my own painting with the concept of FREEdom in mind.

I could take any action or adventure game right now, and tweak it with eh intangible quality of freedom that I'm talking about and instantly, your mind would tell you that you are now playing an RPG, even if your mouth won't admit it. RPG's represent freedom. Originally they had no story,
no end

[Henry Spencer]

And if I were to make a game, I wouldn't restrict myself to any given genre, I'd make a hybrid (multiple genres, doesn't tie itself to one genre in particular) game.

[OL]

Blah blah blah... we're not talking about how gaming originally came to be. We're not talking about the heyday of RPGs. We're talking about gaming NOW. Hell, storytelling itself used to be divided into two catagories: tragedy and comedy. Are those the only ways to describe stories now? Of course not.
RIGHT NOW games are divided up with specific socially-accepted genre classifications. RPG, action, adventure, sports, simulation, strategy, puzzle, etc. And RIGHT NOW RPGs are classified by customization, stat management and leveling up. Some game try to blur the lines between genres by implementing features from other genres, but they always rest upon one specific genre fulcrum that describes MOST of the game. For Shenmue that genre is adventure, because MOST of the game involves traveling around talking to people and collection items, not stats and leveling, which IS what defines RPGs at this point in time.
I would never recommend Shenmue to someone who is only into RPGs, just as I wouldn't recommend Baldur's Gate to someone who is only into adventure games.
The lines between genres are defined by currently socially-accepted classifications, and anyone who understands those classifications will tell you Shenmue is not an RPG.

God this is a retarded argument.

[Jokatech19]

Well since the average person is an idiot I never go by popular logic. LOL. but yes this is a dumb argument. I just wanted to point out the origin of gaming. sadly RPG's don't get the respect they deserve. I think it's great that Mass Effect and other such games are branching out to bring more fans to the genre. Blah Blah Blah. LOL

U know respecting people doesn't hurt. Neither does discussion.

By the way, not to draw this on or anything, but have you ever heard of going back to basics. No one gives a flying bleep about what people define TODAY. Nothing today is original. Socially accepted classifications are just that- socially accepted classifications, not definitions. When you want a definition you go to the pioneers and that's exactly where video game producers go when they decide to make a game. Not to air-headed so-called fans today who wouldn't know a legendary game from a hole in the wall. It's up to the true artists to understand and appreciate a style. At most all we get is a feeling.

[Bluecast]

<center> VS





It isn't an RPG.




NOT GUILTY!</center>

[Bobs Pizza]

I looked at the trailer and noticed that one bit was in caves. WHY DOES EVERY "GOOD" GAME RESORT TO CAVES?!

Gears and RE5 even do it! its shit!

[OL]

Anyway...
I guess it's well enough past April 1st for me to take this seriously now. Great news. The Tales series was my favorite RPG series until I discovered the greatness that is Megami Tensei, so that places it firmly in the second place spot. I was very disappointed that Vesperia was only for the 360 initially (actually pretty surprised Ryudo remembers my short rant about it) so I'm glad I'll finally get to have a go at it sometime soon. I still don't get why the 360 has been graced with so many JRPGs when it's clearly the third-place console in Japan, and RPGs are THE genre over there.
Regardless, the Gametrailers review of Vesperia was very favorable (and I generally trust gametrailers), so I'm excited about this one now.
Here's hoping for a PS3 original soon, though.
And I'm still waiting for that DS Tales game.

[Crimson Ryan]

Japanese 360 fans anger at the PS3 announcement:

[Tomato Convenience Store]

Good game, good news for ps3 only owners. I'd say it's the best jrpg on the 360.

[AnimeGamer183]

Japanese 360 fans anger at the PS3 announcement:

probably pissed and wondering "Why the fuck did I buy a 360?"

Btw, PS3 outsold Wii in japan last month due to RE5 and Yakuza 3, by about 50,000 units too ;)