Valve/nVidia & Square-Enix(?!) Making Consoles

[St. Elmo's Fire]

Thanks for the explanation, guys.

Since we're talking Sonic;
Am I the only one that actually really liked, appreciated and fully enjoyed Sonic Adventure on the DC? Sometimes it gets a lotta stick pretty much universally...

[Who Really Cares?]

Loved it when it first came out but maybe it was the lazy port? But the XBLA version shows a rather dated game. The camera can be a real pain at times. Still better than Heroes and Sonic 2006

[Bluecast]

I love SA 1-2 even if they are stiff and not aged great. I still get a lot of enjoyment out of them. In a sense the awkwardness makes me enjoy them more. Just exclusive to the time it came out and it's pure rose tinted glasses of nostalgia but so what. Still Sonic Colors for me dethroned SA as my fave 3D sonic. Generations to me was fantastic but some of the boss fights were not great and colors did IMO.

BTW WRC the XBLA version is a port of the Gamecube version same as SA2. SA GCN was a weird port. They changed so much even things they didn't need to be changed like color swaps and textures.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I had a friend who was really upset that Final Fantasy 11 was an online game and that they shouldn't have called it a numbered Final Fantasy... as if changing the name would really means anything.

Actually yea it would. The whole idea of continuing Final Fantasy and using numbers is purposely done to keep people buying and playing the game based on previous experiences.

If you make 10 turn based RPGs then suddenly release a mmo people are going to be upset its not the same. Especially if you call it 11 to signify it has stuff in common with 1-10.

Think about it this way, you don't want to call a game about playing hide and seek with the teletubbies in an "E" rated setting "Rapist City: How to sodomize children". Sometimes the name doesn't matter, but when you're dealing with a series its incredibly important.

I love SA 1-2 even if they are stiff and not aged great. I still get a lot of enjoyment out of them. In a sense the awkwardness makes me enjoy them more. Just exclusive to the time it came out and it's pure rose tinted glasses of nostalgia but so what. Still Sonic Colors for me dethroned SA as my fave 3D sonic. Generations to me was fantastic but some of the boss fights were not great and colors did IMO.

BTW WRC the XBLA version is a port of the Gamecube version same as SA2. SA GCN was a weird port. They changed so much even things they didn't need to be changed like color swaps and textures.

Loved it when it first came out but maybe it was the lazy port? But the XBLA version shows a rather dated game. The camera can be a real pain at times. Still better than Heroes and Sonic 2006

That and the 360 can't really handle Dreamcast games. Thats why alot of these remaster collections don't quite feel right. I really noticed it when I played SA2 and Jet Set Radio on a bunch of consoles.

[KiBa]

Thanks for the explanation, guys.

Since we're talking Sonic;
Am I the only one that actually really liked, appreciated and fully enjoyed Sonic Adventure on the DC? Sometimes it gets a lotta stick pretty much universally...

It's my favorite Sonic game.

[Thief]

Actually yea it would. The whole idea of continuing Final Fantasy and using numbers is purposely done to keep people buying and playing the game based on previous experiences.

If you make 10 turn based RPGs then suddenly release a mmo people are going to be upset its not the same. Especially if you call it 11 to signify it has stuff in common with 1-10.

Think about it this way, you don't want to call a game about playing hide and seek with the teletubbies in an "E" rated setting "Rapist City: How to sodomize children". Sometimes the name doesn't matter, but when you're dealing with a series its incredibly important.

Sorry I don't really agree. Regardless of the fact that I think Final Fantasy XI is very similar to the others in the franchise, Final Fantasy has always been about innovation and improvement over the previous installments. Whether or not it's truly innovative or successful is a different matter altogether though. I also don't really understand your example about the teletubbies and why that's relevant. That's such an extreme example and not really what I'm talking about; I'm talking about a number. I just think it's stupid to complain about which one is canonically determined to be number four or eleven or whatever when the games have no chronological relevance. As far as marketing is concerned, that's Square Enix's problem.

[Yokosuka Martian]

Absolutely my favorite Sonic game. I had a similar reaction to it like Shenmue lol. I don't see the hate for Sonic Adventure

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Actually yea it would. The whole idea of continuing Final Fantasy and using numbers is purposely done to keep people buying and playing the game based on previous experiences.

If you make 10 turn based RPGs then suddenly release a mmo people are going to be upset its not the same. Especially if you call it 11 to signify it has stuff in common with 1-10.

Think about it this way, you don't want to call a game about playing hide and seek with the teletubbies in an "E" rated setting "Rapist City: How to sodomize children". Sometimes the name doesn't matter, but when you're dealing with a series its incredibly important.

Sorry I don't really agree. Regardless of the fact that I think Final Fantasy XI is very similar to the others in the franchise, Final Fantasy has always been about innovation and improvement over the previous installments. Whether or not it's truly innovative or successful is a different matter altogether though. I also don't really understand your example about the teletubbies and why that's relevant. That's such an extreme example and not really what I'm talking about; I'm talking about a number. I just think it's stupid to complain about which one is canonically determined to be number four or eleven or whatever when the games have no chronological relevance. As far as marketing is concerned, that's Square Enix's problem.

You don't really have a choice on agreement, thats how marketing works. you can feel any way you like, but it wasn't a one off thing when FF11 got released and people skipped it or got rid of it soon after starting it.

Its relevant because you can tell a lot of people what your game is about with the name, Monster Hunter and Cut the Rope are partially successful because you hunt monsters and cut rope. A name can be important, and when working with a franchise having a number means a continued playstyle.

No, Final Fantasy games are not in a continuity, they do build upon the same mechanics and themes in the game before them. Thats why we still have the ATB system and Crystals.

Look at Dragon quest X, a series that had really subtle changes and in many cases DID have continuity links. Lots of people are really pissed that X is an mmo. even former sponsors are really unhappy with the decision.

[Thief]

I don't have a choice but to agree with you? What the fuck? Names don't have to be as literal as "Monster Hunter" or whatever. Regardless, it's not up to you or me to determine what makes Final Fantasy XI good enough to be considered part of the main series, and it sure isn't worth bitching about after the fact. That was my point. That's it.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Thats not what I meant. You don't have a choice on agreeing or disagreeing, theres nothing to disagree over. Thats how marketing works.

When rain falls, things get wet-I agree. Doesn't work like that.

Its worth bitching for a lot of people because they felt they were lied to, and they have a point. what makes a game "good enough" is inconsequential, because

When a company releases 10 turn based RPGs, then sudden;y drops the core mechanic, people feel lied to.

Adding a number denotes continuing an idea, thats the whole concept behind iterative branding.

[Thief]

I disagree, when rain falls things don't necessarily have to get wet. Let's test the if/then statement.

If it is raining, then things are wet.
If things are wet, then it is raining.

Well, I guess things can be wet without rain. If they were wet to begin with then they won't be getting wet once it starts raining. Also, if these things are inside then they'd be dry - unless of course there was a leaky roof. I'd say if it was raining things would either become wet, continue being wet, or stay dry.

[Let's Get Sweaty]

Class action lawsuit over ToeJam & Earl 2 - who's with me?

[south carmain]

I'm with segata on this one, I'm pretty sure the reason they named it final fantasy 11 was to bring in fans of the main franchise who usually wouldn't care about an MMO, after all when you have 10 consecutive products that all cover the same mechanics it will be hard for the player to associate something that looks like a part of that line with something else than the 10 previous games which will result in a lot more impulse buys than if they had called it final fantasy online or something similar, square knew what they were doing after all they didn't name final fantasy tactics "final fantasy 8"

[MiTT3NZ]

Not at all. Whilst boring at times (hell, a lot of the time) Sonic & Knuckles is the best Mega Drive-era Sonic game, and 4's still better than that. Not that Ep I & II are great games, mind. I think Sonic as a series is generally overrated, and the best games aren't technically brilliant. They may not be deemed by fans as "the best", but to me Sonic Chronicles, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Rush are the IP's best offerings.

I won't lie, I still enjoy having a blast on any of the games every couple of years or so, but they just don't feel like quality games. I have the urge to complete them, but I don't always feel like I'm having fun. Sonic Chronicles though is by far the stand-out title, despite not being a traditional Sonic game. But that's getting way besides the point. Sonic 4 was a brilliant accomplishment in merging the 2D style with the 3D engine (much better than Sonic Unleashed, although I'm still yet to play Colours and Generations) It just seemed like the perfect middle-ground. Although, I do concede that if it isn't played at 1080 res, it's just as bad as Sonic 2 on the Game Gear (where you can see about 2 foot in front so constantly run head-on into a badnik)

[Who Really Cares?]

Sonic Rush is awesome.

Best Megadrive one would be 2 for me but i would say CD is the best 2D Sonic.