Final Fantasy

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

I won't lie, i hated the game at first because of how different it was, but I just sat down one day and decided to really learn the combat system and really ended up enjoying it.

the first time i played it i only put in about 8 hours and hated it, now that I've put in over 140 hours (between the original and the Japanese only Zodiac version) I really enjoy it. I prefer playing my Zodiac version because its easier to tune out Vaan and Penelo's voices. Plus any problems I had with the combat got ironed out.

I hate Vaan mostly because he was there to sell games. All of his origin story and setup could have been used on Balthier or Basch who were a million times more interesting. Aside from Vaan and Penelo no one else gets their backstory explored just hinted at.

FF X and XII are the games where S-E made the game then wrote a story to it, and it shows.

The story parts of the game are actually very fixable. How about we link the occuria to the lucavi and make Raithwall one of the 12 Knights, cut Vaan and Penelo and replace them with playable Migelo and Gurdy while Bach and Ashe take center stage. License board is no longer the continuity breaking license board, now its the Zodiac sphere, all of your party members have a zodiac stone and they gain levels and can use equipment based on their zodiac level which rises with zodiac points, so its still exactly the same but called something different. show saint Ajora being born and finally lets hint at the fact that the magicite mining on the floating continents stripped them of their power to fly and they crashed into the ground and that was the cause along with St Ajora being evil for the great destruction

I felt kinda ripped off as an Ivalice fan that there were no playable moogles, Kiltias, nomouhs or baanga.

Also Gabranth is in Dissida and he fits pretty well especially with the first 6 protagonists most of which are in heavy medieval gear, who really doesn't fit is Tidus in his freaking jumpsuit.

[Henry Spencer]

I wasn't a huge fan. I want to go back and give it another shot some time but I never liked the characters other then the sky pirate and the battle system was quite bad. If you want a PS2 FF I suggest X.

Sorry, but I tried it at my friend's house when it was first released yeah and years ago. Sufficed to say, it put me off FF for a long time (too much romance crap, lame villains and terrible voice acting). My last FF was FF9, since FF9 was a throwback to old school FF, which are the FF games I like (yes, the ancient, archaic FF games are the best).

By the looks of things, FFXII pissed off a lot of the fans and it's controversial for making changes to the series (by the sounds of things; good changes), all the more reason for me to play it.

I read all your points guys (Orange's review was great, it does sound like Square started out with Matsuno's story [being political and complex and then degenerating] and after he left, scrapped it and made it up themselves as they went along).

I have made up my mind.

Confirmed next purchase after FF Tactics.

Been in a big RPG mood lately.

[Clint]

I'm thinking of starting FFXII again tonight.

I've got a 50 hour save somewhere, but i've not played it for over a year and would be easier just to start again from scratch.

I'll see if I can get my head into it this time. Stopping at 50 hours isn't a good sign at all but perhaps I had reason to do so. I remember it being a very challenging game, on an epic scale with some interesting characters and storyline elements. But I also remember there being a severe lack of cutscenes and very little character development. Vaan, simply put, should not be in this game at all.

They could have easily put Basch as the main character and things would instantly be better. But i'm going to give it another spin tonight and see how things go. One thing's for damn sure, it's better than that steaming pile of shite FF13. A cannot get my head around how much of a step back that game was. Fantastic production values, but the game is pure garbage.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Ok I'll just say it this one time and never say it again. Basch was the main character but when Matusno left the project things changed.

OK THATS IT not me nor Dorian or anyone is saying it again lol

[Henry Spencer]

What? Sorry, I didn't hear you. Mind repeating that for me?

[Clint]

Ok I'll just say it this one time and never say it again. Basch was the main character but when Matusno left the project things changed.

OK THATS IT not me nor Dorian or anyone is saying it again lol

Was he really?

I actually had no idea at all. Interesting.

Why the fuck bring Vaan into the story then? Bad move IMO.

[Vyse Hazuky]

^I think it was something like Vagrant Story being an underseller and Vaan being more appealing to the key-demo.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Bingo

and Spence I love and hate you sir.

[Clint]

^I think it was something like Vagrant Story being an underseller and Vaan being more appealing to the key-demo.

It's this kind of mentality that is killing the RPG.

The Japanese have to move away from this line of thinking. We don't need the pretty boy meets pretty girl storyline anymore. We've seen it all before and it's become tiresome. I understand how big the Japanese RPG market is, but wouldn't they rather play something a bit different? FF surely has to move on from the childish anime crap that's in every game they make. The 'uhhs' and 'ahhs' and the 12 year old schoolgirls. The male characters having either no balls, or being total virgins. Why does it have to be like this? FFXII was perhaps an exception to this rule, but they didn't need to include Vaan or Panelo. And yes, being a big FF fan myself, I can honestly say that i'm totally fucking bored of it all. FFXIII just completely pissed me off with this kind of crap.

This is why I think Western developers can take over the RPG. They have the tools needed to take games to the next level. Atleast we'll be treated to something a bit different.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Western RPGs have always kinda dominated. Theres no Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest without Ultima, and games like Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter Knights never lost popularity its more of the fact that gaming is now a huge market and western RPGs are getting more exposure.

I love it when people compare something to mass effect just because theres a choice system.

[Riku Rose]

Square are scared plain and simple. I remember around two years ago they said they were going to make very few new IP's and more sequals as they can be certain they will profit. For me Square's last amazing game was KH2 evreything else has been good at best. I think the lash back on XIII may be positive but still can't wait for FFVSXIII since it has a world map and more towns.

[Bluecast]

Yeah Square handed Front mission to western developers and for a time had Grin working on a Final Fantasy console game(before Grin went defunct) and I think this is just Japanese developers overall scared as they try to be more western these days and I personally hate it.

Not saying Japanese RPGs and other franchises are better than western (nah) but I just prefer the Japanese style I came to love. Most but not all western stuff does not fit my personal taste. Though I do recognize many of today's higher rated games are western.

I still see many new ideas come from Japanese developers but either don't fare well in sales or are kept in Japan when last gen they would have been released to the west.

[Tuffty]

The male characters having either no balls, or being total virgins.

Auron, Cid, Basch, Balthier, Barrett (I could go on) says hello. The "leading" male characters since VII have to be slightly effeminate because that's what sells copies in Japan. And let's be honest, it's not really a radical departure from pre-VII now is it? You don't look at Locke's profile from VI and think he's the definition of an alpha male. Vaan might have been a poor character but least now SE are not likely to make that same mistake again. Let me be clear, I'm not accusing you in this Clint, but to say most of the males are transsexuals is a gross generalisation from ignorant gamers who've never played a JRPG in their lives, and something which I'm sick of hearing.

Can someone please explain to me why Japanese and Western RPG's always have to be in competion with it's each other? The biggest difference I find between the two is that one sets you on a fixed narrative and can prove to be compelling in it's own way, and the other gives the player the freedom to essentially create their own story and experiences whilst following a loosely structured narrative, which is also compelling in it's own way. Can nobody just accept that there are truly great games in both sides with different game designs and we should be thankful that a choice like this exists?

I like how the RPG diehards want the likes of FF to maybe return to it's roots, or be more like Mass Effect when it's the least conventional RPG on the market.

[Segata Sanshiro Jr.]

Heh I'm going to feel old for a few minutes here.

I get what Clint meant, I'm pretty sure he was talking about male leads. While Locke isn't an alpha male He's doesn't look like Meg Ryan. I think thats what you're not getting. As the years go on the protagonists have less and less cloths on and look more and more androgynous. As for not making the same mistake again what do you call Hope?

I agree Eastern and Western RPGs don't need to be in competition to be honest I don't even see that boundary anymore. There are games like Xanadu Next and Wizardry for PS3 that were only released in Japan and are more in line with "western ideals" then Mass Effect or Fallout 3. All RPGs are western RPGs even the more linear ones. You know back in the 80s for a short while Western RPGs were more about story while games like SaGa and Black Onyx were reaaaaally open. All RPGs originate from DnD and even games like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are directly modeled after Ultima (Yuji Hori has stated it a few times)

I don't want FF to be Mass Effect, I want it to be FF. I want ATB systems (which I'll admit they've done a nice job keeping) I want a medieval steampunk style, I want fully clothed protagonists, I want towns, I want world maps and most of all I freaking want airships again, real airships that I can actually use on the world map.

[Tuffty]

But really, is it that much of an issue? Really? If a game plays well, looks good and tells a good yarn then surely the clothes they wear don't matter? They can still do truly masculine leads, just look at Nier. He is one ugly motherfucker. To say you don't want scantily clad male characters anymore is rather odd considering Vaan's probably the one and only example in a recent entry. Which character was inappropriately dressed in XIII?

I miss those things you listed too, but I don't think they break the games for not having them. X, XII and XIII have all been very good games IMO. XV could be a return to all those things and I bet people would still complain. For all the people that wanted something new and got XII, it was suddenly too much of a change. For all those that wanted it to be more traditional and got XIII, they hadn't changed the formula enough.