Gaming thoughts of the day

(Gaming discussion not related to Shenmue)

Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby OL » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:23 pm

Segata Sanshiro Jr. wrote:and I'm scared. I'm afraid I won't make it as an indie, just like the publishers told me I wouldn't. I want to tell the story of a man who was molested, examines the definition of rape and contemplates suicide before he can hurt anyone. I don't know if anyone would play the game. I want to make a game that basically goes through what its like to be a native. I want to write about men who love men, about understanding balance and harmony. I want to write about things that terrify people even if they don't admit it. But "they" might be right, and I might not be able to reach a single person.


I'd say if those are the kinds of things you want to tackle, you ought to just write a book or a movie.
Honestly, how would gameplay factor into any of those ideas? It might be an odd thing coming from me, considering that I love so many games whose stories aren't completely gameplay-centric. But I still think that, in general, it's probably important to go into a project considering the strengths of the medium itself.
If a guy wanted to make a movie with an almost nonexistent story about someone dungeon crawling and leveling up, wouldn't you tell him "Hey buddy, you've come to the wrong room, videogames are just down the hall"?
Sure, you could probably do all of the ideas you named by doing them as point-n-clicks or something, but the point I'm trying to make is that they aren't intrinsically "videogame" ideas, just as something about a plumber jumping on mushrooms and collecting stars isn't specifically a "movie" idea.
I know, I know, we could get into a conversation about shoehorning videogames as one thing or another, about how we shouldn't be closed-minded about how they're used, etc. And I agree that they should be allowed to tell any kind of story a person might want to tell.
But it's still true that the ideas you're talking about just don't have to be games. I'd argue that it doesn't even make much sense for them to be games.
You mention not being sure anyone would even want to play games like those. Well, I personally wouldn't be interested in them myself. I can say that with complete certainty.
And yet, I would likely be open to watching a movie or reading a book on the same subjects.
Something to ponder I guess.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Segata Sanshiro Jr. » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:35 pm

Thing is, i want to tell those stories because of the interaction.

I know i bring it up alot, but I never wanted to shoot the boss, and even considered just turning the console off and not finishing the game. Its a powerful thing, making a person accountable, it can really mess with their head, and i know how to do that. i know how to get people to do things through games, but I can't create the same emotions through visuals or narrative alone.

I don't blame you if you don't want to play a game about something like that, I'm not sure I'd want to myself, but then again even without wanting to I might still. I read "We Wish to Inform You That Tomorrow We Will be Killed With Our Families" even though I knew it'd sicken me.

Thats part of what makes this all so confusing, because everything you said is right, but I can't seem to accept it.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby south carmain » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:42 pm

Segata Sanshiro Jr. wrote:and I'm scared. I'm afraid I won't make it as an indie, just like the publishers told me I wouldn't. I want to tell the story of a man who was molested, examines the definition of rape and contemplates suicide before he can hurt anyone. I don't know if anyone would play the game. I want to make a game that basically goes through what its like to be a native. I want to write about men who love men, about understanding balance and harmony. I want to write about things that terrify people even if they don't admit it. But "they" might be right, and I might not be able to reach a single person.

you will need a lot of creativity to pull that one off but that doesn't mean you should give up, after all you won't know if you don't try and if games like heavy rain can get critically acclaimed for being "different" and "a movie like experience" I have no doubts if you are talented and play your cards well then you can get your own audience and decent amount of success also

I haven't played it but isn't catherine similar to what you want to do? not similar to your story but the fact that on paper you would think "how the fuck would this make a video game" it looks more like a subject that would be covered in a series or a movie yet they manage to pull it off quite well

at the end of the day don't forget that the market is huge so there are bound to be a decent amount if people interested in the same subjects as you, if you present these people a good product they will take it (but you need to find out how to reach out to these people as well so don't forget a good marketing plan ;-) )

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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby OL » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:50 pm

Sorry about the change of subject, but is it bad that I still haven't even touched the Metal Gear Rising demo?
I've got the ZOE collection, and I've got a Japanese PSN account... but I just haven't felt the urge.
Just struck me as weird a moment ago. Seems like it'd be right up my alley, and it doesn't look bad of course... I just haven't felt like I need to play it. Like, at all.
Ah well, maybe it'll hit me eventually.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Yokosuka Martian » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:54 pm

STILL haven't gotten my Shenmue 2 in the mail. About this close to sending a rant e-mail to the sender.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby MiTT3NZ » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:00 pm

Hmm... You should defo go for it Segata. If it's something you're passionate about, fucking do it. And besides, think of all the attention it'd get. No doubt there's going to be a few reports about it being "a controversial new game" and piss off some Christian nutjobs.

Either way, you need the story to be perfect before you can pull it off (wahey!) You could slide the whole molestation thing in there as a surprise ending, an important piece of history that ties up all loose ends and shocks the player, leaving them staring at their screens open-jawed way past the credits; orrr you could really put the player in the character's shoes by using some well-placed cameras to "suggest" what's happening, and they will essentially be joining the character on his journey.

Interesting concept for sure though.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Segata Sanshiro Jr. » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:11 pm

OL wrote: Sorry about the change of subject, but is it bad that I still haven't even touched the Metal Gear Rising demo?
I've got the ZOE collection, and I've got a Japanese PSN account... but I just haven't felt the urge.
Just struck me as weird a moment ago. Seems like it'd be right up my alley, and it doesn't look bad of course... I just haven't felt like I need to play it. Like, at all.
Ah well, maybe it'll hit me eventually.


Maybe its a mood thing. Have you touched any actiony games in the past while?

MiTT3NZ wrote:Hmm... You should defo go for it Segata. If it's something you're passionate about, fucking do it. And besides, think of all the attention it'd get. No doubt there's going to be a few reports about it being "a controversial new game" and piss off some Christian nutjobs.

Either way, you need the story to be perfect before you can pull it off (wahey!) You could slide the whole molestation thing in there as a surprise ending, an important piece of history that ties up all loose ends and shocks the player, leaving them staring at their screens open-jawed way past the credits; orrr you could really put the player in the character's shoes by using some well-placed cameras to "suggest" what's happening, and they will essentially be joining the character on his journey.

Interesting concept for sure though.


thank you for the encouragement. I got the idea because of papo and yo, which is at its hart about the designer's struggles with his abusive father. I think if i ever got a big enough budget to do the idea justice you'd be surprised by what I have in mind. For now I'm biding my time doing 2D stuff and just having fun making RPGs. Where I'll be this time next year (aside from working on shenmue project) I don't know.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Vyse Hazuky » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:12 pm

SEGATA: Maybe I could point out the likes of this year's Dis4ya and Mainichi (which dealt with changing gender) or The Kite (domestic violence).

All three had different gameplay and presentation, yet all made their points across. Or even the games from Tale of Tales, so detached are they from genres and preconceived notions they're hard to classify and analyse.

Bottom line: Make it happen. Being an indie developer is hard as it is, but you must believe in the power of your vision. If you make something you're proud of, people will recognize its value. If back out of making it because you're afraid people won't understand it, well, at least give us the chance to. Plus, you know, marketing's half the battle (or more : P
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Segata Sanshiro Jr. » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:16 pm

Vyse Hazuky wrote: SEGATA: Maybe I could point out the likes of this year's Dis4ya and Mainichi (which dealt with changing gender) or The Kite (domestic violence).

All three had different gameplay and presentation, yet all made their points across. Or even the games from Tale of Tales, so detached are they from genres and preconceived notions they're hard to classify and analyse.

Bottom line: Make it happen. Being an indie developer is hard as it is, but you must believe in the power of your vision. If you make something you're proud of, people will recognize its value. If back out of making it because you're afraid people won't understand it, well, at least give us the chance to. Plus, you know, marketing's half the battle (or more : P


Manichi blew my mind.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:05 pm

OL wrote: Sorry about the change of subject, but is it bad that I still haven't even touched the Metal Gear Rising demo?
I've got the ZOE collection, and I've got a Japanese PSN account... but I just haven't felt the urge.
Just struck me as weird a moment ago. Seems like it'd be right up my alley, and it doesn't look bad of course... I just haven't felt like I need to play it. Like, at all.
Ah well, maybe it'll hit me eventually.


If it is bad, then I must be worse. Got Far Cry 3 well before Xmas, and still not played it, 'cos I've not completed Oblivion yet. I do look forward to starting it, but right now, and with me just being a bit "that way" anyway, I cannot commit to any other game. I've not decided if I'll download the expansion and plough straight on, or if I'll "allow" myself to interrupt the flow of it and get stuck into FC3.

Also on a related gaming thought, got Far Cry 2 and Deus Ex Human Revolution from a work friend for £10 today. With the rest of Oblivion to go, stuff in Skyrim to do (including the newest DLC which I don't have yet), two Far Crys and Human Revolution on my To Do, I've got a real meaty load of gaming available to me now, and I've got nice sorta feeling about it that I've not had for a very long time when it comes to looking forward to gaming. :D
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby south carmain » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:12 pm

St. Elmo's Fire wrote:
OL wrote: Sorry about the change of subject, but is it bad that I still haven't even touched the Metal Gear Rising demo?
I've got the ZOE collection, and I've got a Japanese PSN account... but I just haven't felt the urge.
Just struck me as weird a moment ago. Seems like it'd be right up my alley, and it doesn't look bad of course... I just haven't felt like I need to play it. Like, at all.
Ah well, maybe it'll hit me eventually.


If it is bad, then I must be worse. Got Far Cry 3 well before Xmas, and still not played it, 'cos I've not completed Oblivion yet. I do look forward to starting it, but right now, and with me just being a bit "that way" anyway, I cannot commit to any other game. I've not decided if I'll download the expansion and plough straight on, or if I'll "allow" myself to interrupt the flow of it and get stuck into FC3.

Also on a related gaming thought, got Far Cry 2 and Deus Ex Human Revolution from a work friend for £10 today. With the rest of Oblivion to go, stuff in Skyrim to do (including the newest DLC which I don't have yet), two Far Crys and Human Revolution on my To Do, I've got a real meaty load of gaming available to me now, and I've got nice sorta feeling about it that I've not had for a very long time when it comes to looking forward to gaming. :D

if you have far cry 3 for ps3 I just ordered it myself and looking for a team to do the co op campaign with, send me your gamer tag if you're up for it
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:31 pm

360. :(
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Axm » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:32 pm

OL wrote:Sorry about the change of subject, but is it bad that I still haven't even touched the Metal Gear Rising demo?
I've got the ZOE collection, and I've got a Japanese PSN account... but I just haven't felt the urge.
Just struck me as weird a moment ago. Seems like it'd be right up my alley, and it doesn't look bad of course... I just haven't felt like I need to play it. Like, at all.
Ah well, maybe it'll hit me eventually.

I played it and thought it was just ok. I will get it eventually but probably not at launch.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby MiTT3NZ » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:31 pm

St. Elmo's Fire wrote: 360. :(


Add me, nob ed.
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Re: Gaming thoughts of the day

Postby Yokosuka Martian » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:44 pm

And me :D
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