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Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:24 pmby elfshadowreaper
Even though I think PH should have remained in SH2, the only way you could say PH belongs in other games is because James saw the picture of PH at some point. So someone had to paint it making it, I guess, part of the SH history. But his incarnation fits too well with James that it just doesn't make sense to have PH be in someone else's hallucinations.
I haven't played SH1 so I don't know much about Alessa apart from the movie and whatever was explained in SH3. The coolest part in that game was when the guy asked Heather, "They look like monsters to you?" It was so shocking to realize that the monsters weren't monsters. SH2 had a few similar moments with the lady in the fire and the little kid not being affected. SO much awesome psychology involved.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:30 pmby elfshadowreaper
I just want to know the significance of the plural Hills.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:14 pmby OL
elfshadowreaper wrote: Even though I think PH should have remained in SH2, the only way you could say PH belongs in other games is because James saw the picture of PH at some point. So someone had to paint it making it, I guess, part of the SH history
Not necessarily. Silent Hill lures people in and creates a reality just for them; everything within that reality has been tailor-made to affect the individual. That particular painting was likely only visible to James, because it doesn't actually exist in the "real" Silent Hill.
So yeah, Pyramid Head is still supposed to be an enemy specific to James. Really shouldn't be in anything else.elfshadowreaper wrote:The coolest part in that game was when the guy asked Heather, "They look like monsters to you?" It was so shocking to realize that the monsters weren't monsters. SH2 had a few similar moments with the lady in the fire and the little kid not being affected.
Yeah, that kind of plays into the whole "individual reality" thing. The town presents itself differently to different people. The way I've always understood it, the town in reality appears totally normal to most people. But to those it lures in, it creates a false image of itself, foggy, devoid of people, and appearing a bit ruinous.
Laura (the little girl in SH2) actually lives in the town, and sees it as just a totally normal place (no fog, nothing ruined, plenty of people around), which is why she remains safe from the horror, and reacts a bit strangely when James talks about how something is wrong with the town. But for a couple of reason, the town allows her to see James, and James to see her.
I love that stuff. I think this is part of why the western-made games were just so unfit to be a part of the series; I don't think the devs really understood any of the deeper, implied details like this. They just thought "let's make with the jump scares!" and forgot that Silent Hill actually has a really deep lore behind it.
Here's hoping the team behind the new one remember all of this important background stuff.
I finally watched a longer video of the teaser (I thought I'd seen the whole thing, but it goes a bit longer), and I'm more and more sold on it. The overall style still doesn't feel distinctly "SH" to me (the main jump scare, for example, looks more like something out of Condemned), but I love the direction of it anyway. And I'm not bothered about the first-person perspective anymore; it occurs to me that the Room areas in SH4 were first-person, and they were easily the most unsettling parts of the whole game.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:07 amby elfshadowreaper
OL wrote:I think this is part of why the western-made games were just so unfit to be a part of the series; I don't think the devs really understood any of the deeper, implied details like this. They just thought "let's make with the jump scares!" and forgot that Silent Hill actually has a really deep lore behind it.
Absolutely! That seems to be the cycle every IP goes through. One or two games/movies/TV seasons(SH actually got three good games, one fun, but only slightly less SH-esque) before the suits take notice of it making money and come in with creative differences. Then sometimes there's enough blowback that they reboot it. I really hope they get back to all the subtext and lore.
And I think atmosphere trumps jump scares every time. Jump scares are momentary but atmosphere just saturates you in fear. A couple of jump scares are fine but I'd much rather something scare me through the atmosphere. Like the balcony ghost...just him looking but not approaching or "trying to get me" is totally terrifying. I am horrified by the thought of something looking at me but I don't know it's there yet. But by definition I would eventually have to see the whatever-it-is and that's when the jibblies are cashed in and I freak out.
OL wrote:Here's hoping the team behind the new one remember all of this important background stuff.
I finally watched a longer video of the teaser (I thought I'd seen the whole thing, but it goes a bit longer), and I'm more and more sold on it. The overall style still doesn't feel distinctly "SH" to me (the main jump scare, for example, looks more like something out of Condemned), but I love the direction of it anyway. And I'm not bothered about the first-person perspective anymore; it occurs to me that the Room areas in SH4 were first-person, and they were easily the most unsettling parts of the whole game.
Nothing in there except the baby seemed very SH. From what everyone is saying it's more of a tech demo to show what we can expect from SHs' gameplay, not necessarily story, characters or villains. I do remember how SH4 had first person parts. The room was really creepy when you'd see the ghosts appear and you'd have to light the candles.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:31 pmby Kenny
I saw 30 seconds of gameplay since I'm curious about it but didn't want to spoil the experience for myself.
Reminds me of Silent Hill 4 with the first person perspective and the cramped rooms. I like it.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:42 pmby Riku Rose
I always wanted to get into the Silent Hill series but after starting the original about a year ago I just couldn't do it. The terrible controls just didn't make it fun for me and the whole thing just felt stiff. I'm normally quite good at looking past a games age but that 30 minutes stopped me going any further with the series.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:48 pmby Kenny
The original game wasn't that great anyway. A friend of mine ended up finishing it for me after I gave up about halfway and saw I didn't miss much.
Personally I really like SH4 the best when I was in the apartment in first person because that felt maddening being locked in there by yourself while weird shit was happening around you. When you got out of there and into the world of Silent Hill, it got too repetitive and I felt disappointed after awhile. That's probably why i'm more interested in this one, I suppose, provided they keep the first person perspective.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:37 pmby OL
Riku Rose wrote: I always wanted to get into the Silent Hill series but after starting the original about a year ago I just couldn't do it. The terrible controls just didn't make it fun for me and the whole thing just felt stiff.
Kenny wrote:The original game wasn't that great anyway.
On the whole, I can't imagine one usually goes into a horror game for "fun." There's an enjoyability to them, but it's not about having a laughing blast; it's about exploring and uncovering what the hell is going on. Horror is one of the few genres in gaming where the aesthetics are literally the single most important aspect, and in that area, Silent Hill was amazing.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and all that, and I hope this doesn't sound offensive, but I can't help but feel like you guys are being a bit unfair with the game. If Silent Hill "wasn't that great anyway," then I honestly think you might as well say the same for MGS1, Resident Evil, or Vagrant Story. After playing newer iterations in each one's series and/or genre, it obviously feels like a huge step backward to go back and play a bunch of PS1 games. Improvements have been made in every single genre since then, but it's one of those cases where keeping things in context is really important.
As someone who played Silent Hill way back in '99, I can tell you that at the time -- in its genre -- Silent Hill really was "that great." It was completely deserving of all the acclaim.
No animosity intended here. I would just recommend giving it another try one day, if you get the urge for a good horror game. As always, the right mood can do wonders for what you think of a game.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:41 pmby Kenny
Well, for the record the original Resident Evil aged pretty poorly as well (which is why the REmake gets more love from me) and I love MGS1 primarily for the brilliant voice work, visual atmosphere, and brilliant storytelling that future installments haven't come close to since (except MGS3).
And I know it was considered groundbreaking for its time but everything about the game couldn't keep my interest, I just didn't care for that particular story which is a shame cause it sounded pretty cool. SH2 is creepier from what little I played of it and like I mentioned, SH4 is my personal favorite only when it's in the apartment. Considering I like games like Condemned and Amnesia (also what little I played of Outlast), it's possible I prefer these games in first person but I enjoyed the thrills of being hunted down by the Tyrant and other monsters in RE games.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:37 pmby Axm
elfshadowreaper wrote: I just want to know the significance of the plural Hills.
The P.T demo really kinda explains it through it's gameplay quite well actually. As you're walking through the hallway, you go through a door at the end of the hall and you loop/warp around to the same door as if you never left. In reality what you're doing it stepping into an alternate dimension of the same hallway. Every time you go through it's a new version of the hall. So Silent
Hills will be all about multiple dimensions.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:48 pmby OL
^^Only thing is, that's what Silent Hill has always been about. The foggy/snowy aesthetic is a separate reality from the dark/rusty reality, which in turn is all separate from the world as we know it.
I think there might be more to it than that.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:02 amby Riku Rose
OL wrote:On the whole, I can't imagine one usually goes into a horror game for "fun." There's an enjoyability to them, but it's not about having a laughing blast; it's about exploring and uncovering what the hell is going on. Horror is one of the few genres in gaming where the aesthetics are literally the single most important aspect, and in that area, Silent Hill was amazing.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and all that, and I hope this doesn't sound offensive, but I can't help but feel like you guys are being a bit unfair with the game. If Silent Hill "wasn't that great anyway," then I honestly think you might as well say the same for MGS1, Resident Evil, or Vagrant Story. After playing newer iterations in each one's series and/or genre, it obviously feels like a huge step backward to go back and play a bunch of PS1 games. Improvements have been made in every single genre since then, but it's one of those cases where keeping things in context is really important.
As someone who played Silent Hill way back in '99, I can tell you that at the time -- in its genre -- Silent Hill really was "that great." It was completely deserving of all the acclaim.
No animosity intended here. I would just recommend giving it another try one day, if you get the urge for a good horror game. As always, the right mood can do wonders for what you think of a game.
I just felt like everything in the game was a hassle. My memory is a bit fuzzy as I only played about 30 minutes but I remember fighting some bird thing in the street and it didn't feel tense or anything it just felt awkward and annoying to control. I can get behind a game making you feel uneasy and tense but it just seemed a bit of a chore to play. I played MGS1 for the first time about a month or two before MGS4 came out and I thought the whole game was amazing. From the moment that game started I was sucked in whereas Silent Hill just felt horrible to play.
It might be that I wasn't in the right mood for Silent Hill or tried to play it the wrong way so maybe I'll give it a chance again one day but my first experience didn't leave me wanting to go back.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:49 amby killthesagabeforeitkillsu
I will fight anyone to the death that says the original trilogy is SH is poor
Just kidding... but yeah they are classics.
SH 4 the Room was poor because the game was never supposed to be a silent hill game but konami forced the team into slapping the title and shoving it into the universe. The Tomm Hulett era games... no comment.
Hopefully Kojima gives us a new horror experience instead of emulating the past and spamming pyramid heads and nurses.
Re: Silent Hills - Developed by Kojima Productions
Posted:
Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:54 amby Yama
P.T. is absolutely brilliant. The atmosphere is rivaled by none, most atmospheric title since Rebirth. Outlast doesn't hold a candle to it. The Fox engine is absolutely gorgeous for a title as such. The teaser in general was horrifying and interesting, the ending and it's open ended nature just as much. I was wandering around for hours, until I tried hooking up my camera (Why? Because Koji game, who knows...) and started saying random things in regards to the game. Said Lisa twice and the screen displayed a static, heard a baby laugh and then a phone ring. I've triggered it a few different ways, though it was the first attempts shock value that really brought it home for me.
Those criticizing it are looking at it the completely wrong way. For one, despite many solid routes days later, the ending was obviously supposed to be random feeling. It's a marketing ploy, but a good one. Some members are supposed to talk about getting out while others are stuck in limbo, it creates discussion. More so, you'll have members like the lot of us who are completionists and attempt to crack the code feverishly. Either way you swing it, we're talking about it post play through. Besides, everyone has the incredible meat of the game to enjoy which did more in fifteen minutes than most have in the past decade. Also, those not understanding the style of gameplay, it's a playable tech demonstration, not a Silent Hills demo. Understand that and be thankful for such a thing. Lastly, this is Kojima's way of saying "look what I can do with a single corridor, imagine an entire game world." Lord like tech demo.