Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby OL » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:08 am

Kintor wrote:...and you aren't even reading...


That apparently goes both ways. You're going off on tangents that have nothing to do with anything anyone is saying.
And I'm starting to think you don't actually know what "semantics" means.

And yeah, I looked at Null Space. It's a corridor level with a couple of platforms off to the side. It refutes absolutely nothing that I've said; if anything, it supports everything I've said, because there's nothing complex or dynamic about it.
And again, you're putting words in my mouth. I haven't said anything about what I love about the classic games. That hasn't been an issue in a single one of my posts.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:51 am

Kintor wrote:Sonic Adventure simply marks the point when console hardware could finally match the storytelling qualities of a cartoon. Shows like Beast Wars were already experimenting with CGI animation; games like Sonic Adventure just took things to the next logical step and offered cartoon quality stories in a video game.


Sonic Adventure's actually my favourite Sonic game, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I still enjoy the story to this day. However this has got to rank amongst some of the most deluded posts I've read on here.

Not the topic btw, the message board in general. And there are people who've been on here that reckon GTA III owed it's success to Shenmue!
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby Kintor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:07 am

OL wrote: That apparently goes both ways. You're going off on tangents that have nothing to do with anything anyone is saying.
And I'm starting to think you don't actually know what "semantics" means.

And yeah, I looked at Null Space. It's a corridor level with a couple of platforms off to the side. It refutes absolutely nothing that I've said; if anything, it supports everything I've said, because there's nothing complex or dynamic about it.
And again, you're putting words in my mouth. I haven't said anything about what I love about the classic games. That hasn't been an issue in a single one of my posts.

When you keep trying to railroad this conversation back towards voice acting, while missing the point completely of what it means when Sonic speaks in a story, that's an appeal to semantics. It’s frankly ignorant to attack Sonic Adventure and other modern games because Sonic speaks, when Sonic has always had a voice in other media. The technical sophistication of the Dreamcast finally allowed that level of storytelling, complete with many speaking roles, without compromise on any aspect of quality. In this respect you can consider Sonic Adventure something more akin to an interactive cartoon, as a forerunner to how later Sonic games would increasingly adopt more RPG elements.

It's the same thing with how you baselessly attack Sonic Forces, even having seen the video on Null Space you still use the same tired rhetoric about 'corridors', without making any attempt to understand how Sonic Forces works as a game. Take another look Null Space, you have a dynamic 3D level design, allowing skilled players to jump between routes and discover secrets like that Red Ring if they're paying attention to the layout and understand how to get the most out of the gameplay mechanics. If you sincerely believe the usual rhetoric about the classic games then you must acknowledge the success of Null Space in Sonic Forces.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:03 am

You're a big fan of buzzwords, aren't you?

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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby Kintor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:10 am

MiTT3NZ wrote: You're a big fan of buzzwords, aren't you?

I see that you don't know how to put forward a reasoned argument and instead resort to personal attacks, as per usual.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby shredingskin » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:15 am

My teacher the other day said sonic is only for furry deviants.

Is that true ?
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby OL » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:07 am

Kintor wrote:It’s frankly ignorant to attack Sonic Adventure and other modern games because Sonic speaks, when Sonic has always had a voice in other media.

And when did I "attack" Sonic Adventure for giving Sonic a voice?
You keep going on about me missing some golden point that you've made, when obviously you're mistaking my posts for someone else's. :lol:


Kintor wrote:...Null Space refutes the baseless rhetoric...

Kintor wrote:...refutes every baseless attack...

Kintor wrote:...baselessly attack...
...tired rhetoric...

I would say that I hope you understand the irony of the fact that you've now turned the term "baseless rhetoric" into actual, literal baseless rhetoric... but I feel like that would fly over your head, and you'd start ranting about the branching complexities of Null Space again.
Whatever. You're either autistic, trolling, deeply insecure, or some combination of the three, but it's kinda boring now. If you're that into Sonic Forces, then hey, have fun running down a hallway. Never said you were wrong for playing it, just that I thought it looked boring.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby Kintor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:30 am

OL wrote: I would say that I hope you understand the irony of the fact that you've now turned the term "baseless rhetoric" into actual, literal baseless rhetoric... but I feel like that would fly over your head, and you'd start ranting about the branching complexities of Null Space again.
Whatever. You're either autistic, trolling, deeply insecure, or some combination of the three, but it's kinda boring now. If you're that into Sonic Forces, then hey, have fun running down a hallway. Never said you were wrong for playing it, just that I thought it looked boring.

You're wanting to leave this discussion but you still can't help making a few back-handed comments. As you continue to attack Sonic Forces, while refusing to consider the points I've made about Null Space. Then just for good measure, you throw in a few personal attacks, looking for the adjective you hope will hurt me the most. That's hardly a sporting attitude you have and certainly no to honestly talk about Sonic games; past, present and future. Although, at this rate I expect you'll still be sticking around. Rest assured that if you keep posting then I'll be more than happy to talk about what great about Sonic Forces and other modern Sonic games.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby shredingskin » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:52 am

Stop crying.

I bet you need a mountain of handkerchiefs right now.

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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:14 pm

^Genuinely lol'd.

As for the other guy, I'd like to ask a sincere question:

Is there any Sonic game (or aspect of one) that you have ever disliked? If so, what was it?
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby south carmain » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:05 pm

Kintor thinks this is the youtube comment section where if he gets the last word then he wins.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby Kintor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:08 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote: As for the other guy, I'd like to ask a sincere question:

Is there any Sonic game (or aspect of one) that you have ever disliked? If so, what was it?

I've made it clear in this thread and elsewhere that I don't like Sonic Boom or Lost World. Back in 2011 Sonic Generations quickly became one of my favourite Sonic games of all time; I wanted the next Sonic game to be just like it. Suffice to say, both Sonic Boom and Lost World represent a wrong turn that undermined the good will gained from Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations. However, now things are finally back on track with Sonic Forces, as the long-awaited spiritual successor to Sonic Generations and the continuation of the modern Sonic 'boost' gameplay.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby MiTT3NZ » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:31 pm

What exactly did you dislike about them though?
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby sand4fish » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:49 pm

Okay, I took a long look at this Null Space from Sonic Forces that Kintor boasts so much on and see what the fuss is about. And... Are you kidding me? What these different routes amount to in the end?
A cool different distinct scenery? Not that I can tell.
Secret boss or brand new area to be explored? Nope.
Any meaningful reward or maybe an extra cutscene to say the least? Big no.
Even back in the original Sonic you could choose to traverse an upper part or lower part (and even a middle one) of the level to reach the end goal. At least the terrain for each layout was different enough in the sense it could affect Sonic's speed as some routes have more uphills or downhills as you go, with different obstacles and enemies in each path. The most important aspect is that the player retained full control of Sonic at ALL TIMES, free to explore the stage at any moment to collect rings for the Chaos Emerald mini-game. But from what I see in Null Space? It's just Sonic and some other furry holding hands and going through the stage LITERALLY ON RAILS. Sorry, but I don't see the brilliant level design Kintor is talking about. It looks more like an inside joke by the developers putting Sonic on rails.
You know what other recent game features the same style of gameplay? Mario Run. Kintor should check it out. It's one Mario game that is not on the Switch or other Nintendo device.
On-rail platforming is the future of Sonic? Count me out.
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Re: Sonic Forces & Sonic Mania

Postby Sokora » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:45 pm

Kintor wrote:
OL wrote: When did I say a single thing about graphics not being important to storytelling?
You said that having voice-acted characters was a major achievement for the Dreamcast itself, and I disagreed on account of a multitude of games having done that previously. You made no mention of graphics in your statement, so obviously I wasn't talking about that.
I'm barely even arguing to begin with; I've just pointed out the holes in your posts, and you seem to take umbrage with that.

Another --> :lol:
Whatever I've said about Sonic Forces isn't baseless at all; it's based on the two gameplay videos I've seen of it.
You mention this "baseless rhetoric [I've] been using to attack Sonic Forces with" as if I'm on some kind of smear campaign, when almost literally all I've said is "now that I've seen videos, I'm not impressed."

You keep trying to reduce things to semantics and you aren't even reading my later post on video game storytelling. Voice acting is only ever one part of Sonic Adventure more complex storytelling. The views you support try to attack Sonic Adventure and all modern Sonic games because of its voice acting. In response I've pointed out how the earliest cartoons and comics already gave Sonic a voice, if you'd been paying attention to any of the Sonic media in the 90s. To that end, Sonic Adventure simply marks the point when console hardware could finally match the storytelling qualities of a cartoon. Shows like Beast Wars were already experimenting with CGI animation; games like Sonic Adventure just took things to the next logical step and offered cartoon quality stories in a video game.

Now, in regards to Sonic Forces, I must again ask that you take this conversation seriously and actually take a look at Null Space. This level already refutes every baseless attack you've made against Sonic Forces, in terms of level design and the dynamic capabilities of the gameplay. It's a disappointing that you refuse to actually talk about Null Space and instead continue to fall back on a poorly edited video. Sonic Forces is a game that represents what modern Sonic gameplay can do, offering all those branching paths and tiered level design you always claim to like about the classic games. It’s just a shame when Sonic Forces offers you exactly that you suddenly pretend that these qualities don’t exist.


Sonic Adventure complex storytelling? You’ve got to be fucking trolling? Are you taking the piss?
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