Feminism

[OmegaDawn]

deleted

[shredingskin]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm using the word as transgender people use it, if you don't like it, blame it on them.

I'll present my positions respectfully from here on out.

he's dumb.

You may think you can say whatever or that you are above everyone else, but words DO hurt.

[Himuro]

Shredingskin, no one trans besides tumblr morons use CIS in the way you're using it. I use CIS in this post, and you should probably examine how I use it.

Thank you for explaining your position in a better manner, OmegaDawn. This I can discuss.

The problem with feminism isn't necessarily its philosophy. As a trans woman, I definitely believe in equality. The problem with feminism is that many feminists are wholly concerned with specific groups of women, and not all women. I am an activist, and I protest a lot. A lot of times in those circles, they will attempt to be inclusive because as a minority woman (black and trans) they want you for diversity data. That's why I criticized "white feminism", because even if its ideals have merit, to many feminists you're just a point of data for them to spread their message. Despite their claims that they preach equality they don't give a fuck about a lot of the people they claim they care about.

For me, that's a large sticking point, and for that reason, I don't claim to be a feminist, because I find a lot of the people who happen to be very narrow-minded people who are only interested in serving their own interests. When they talk of equality, they aren't thinking of helping Black women besides obvious pandering - again - for recruitment. When they talk of equality, they aren't talking about making it easier for great fathers to get the custody of their children in a divorce in courts that are biased towards mothers even if they're not good parents.

But at the same time, I still find some of their causes to be important. A large problem with a lot of feminists is that they fail to acknowledge that a lot of their issues effect men as well. For example, a current hot topic in America is the defunding of Planned Parenthood. Not only do I not support that position on the basis that women have the right of doing what they please with their bodies and that male law makers shouldn't have a final say on what they do to them, especially on the basis of religious morality. But Planned Parenthood does more than that, they do cancer screenings, std testings for men AND women, and general health related things for women that affect their families. If Planned Parenthood gets defunded, that means a lot less women will have access to programs that provide cancer screenings and STD tests which directly effects men. This is why I take issue with men who treat all feminist viewpoints as only being catered to feminists, there's a line. And many of these issues can affect them too.

So for me, it's not black and white. I don't claim to be a feminist, but I do support some of their causes.

RE: #KillAllWhiteMen - I wouldn't advocate killing anyone honestly. I think that is a pretty awful stance to take. If someone got arrested over that, while also standing on a position of "free speech" then they're fools. A large problem that the population doesn't understand is that Free Speech does not give anyone anyone the right they want to say without consequence.

RE: Your "No CIS MEN" image. I think this is foolish and petty, and I don't really know anyone like that at all. Sometimes a lot of girls i know and talk to (Cis or trans) are frustrated with men, but it's not out of the ordinary of what us women usually talk about when talking about men.

RE: Bahar Mustafa - she's an idiot, pure and simple. She has taken an ideology with legitimate concerns and turned it in to hate speech. Pure and simple. Anyone with any historical recollection also wouldn't suggest putting anyone in zoo's or concentration camps. Black people were put into zoo's and gawked at like we are experiments; in America, minority people from all over the world were taken to state Fair's and circuses to be treated as a show. So I'm not sure why anyone with any sort of historical knowledge would say that, much less a good person who stresses a cause that emphasizes equality, but again, feminism and hypocrisy is nothing new.

I think she deserved to be arrested for saying it. Words related to movements have a tendency of forming into actual action. Her Kill All White Men spiel could actually turn into actual violence one day. Such is the way of karma and thinking in the Buddhist tradition, at least.

On the subject of rad fems, trans people in general have a particularly historied relationship with them. In short, I don't like rad fems and think they're awful.

[OmegaDawn]

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[Himuro]

You're right that what I said was rude and I apologize. If you want to take the gamer thing to PM's, I'm fine with that.

I disagree heavily on the notion of violence.

I think comparing video game violence is a bad comparison.

Hate speech in its own special category of speech. When people spout hate speech, it almost always manifests in real world violence and hate. Hate speech has everything you need to know about it in its name. In contrast with something more contested or debatable like video game violence, hate speech has a long history with turning into actual death. The Nazi's, before they killed the Jews, inflicted their entire nation with anti-Jewish propaganda and hate speech. Hate speech justifies hate, which justifies hateful action. A violent mind is a violent person. Behind doors, people use "nigger" all the time, and this results in a society that places little value on peoples lives who happen to be Black.

As an example, Jonathon Ferrell was in a car wreck with his fiancee'. A guy living life. He went to a local house for help after wreck. She thought he was trying to rob her. She called the police in hysterics, saying he was trying to rob her. When the police got there, they shot him to death 10 times while he pleaded for help.

Did the police officer that killed him do any time? No. The case was a mistrial, and prosecutors chose to no longer pursue it, justifying, in a country that says "niggers" behind doors, the death of an innocent man.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... d-him.html

Hate begets hate.

Saying Kill All White Men a statement is not only a violent statement, it will one day result in an actual real world violence birthed from those hateful words.

Free speech is fine, but hate speech in no way should be tolerated in any form.

[shredingskin]

The world looks bleak when we think censoring is the right thing to do.

Instead of adressing the problem, instead of real education, instead of thinking that people can handle themselves, let's just hide it.

BTW state violence is ALWAYS more harmful than individual and organization violence.

If we depend on the state to control our thoughts and the way we express them we will be willingful sheeps.

Just to quote me because I'm awesome:

"Let's read farenheit, a happy world, 1984."

Willingful slaves because our own idiocy. Sadly most people are sheeple and society encourages it, it's a good trait.

[Himuro]

Thank you for your wisdom. I didn't realize someone saying something violent in public forum and being arrested for it is "censorship".

[Calshot]

Yes, people should just be happy we live in a "free world" that has black sites on citizens, where you can get shot, arrested, or killed for doing nothing because of the color of your skin, and where people whose natural response is killing you because you simply exist. Pretty much every "outrage" thing you're seeing now is the result of decades of inaction, and in the case of Police treatment of Black Americans, a literally century long relationship.

That's a gigantic blanket statement. Yeah, there are major problems with police, but to dumb it down to "police shoot innocent people for the color of their skin" doesn't do the problem justice.

[shredingskin]

It's ok, I understand that the most basic things can be baffling to certain people .

But really, I don't know if you are being sarcastic or using the quotes badly.

Talking about nazis



There you go.

[Himuro]

I'm being entirely sarcastic.

And the fact you stand on a soapbox is rich. Rather than talking about "addressing the problem" (what IS the problem?) or "real education" (what education? For what?) it would be a lot more beneficial and spare a lot less headaches if you talked about the relevant topic instead of telling us to read books we all read in High School.

Equating someone being arrested after threatening violence as censorship is a massive intellectual fallacy on a very, very large scale.

Yes, people should just be happy we live in a "free world" that has black sites on citizens, where you can get shot, arrested, or killed for doing nothing because of the color of your skin, and where people whose natural response is killing you because you simply exist. Pretty much every "outrage" thing you're seeing now is the result of decades of inaction, and in the case of Police treatment of Black Americans, a literally century long relationship.

That's a gigantic blanket statement. Yeah, there are major problems with police, but to dumb it down to "police shoot innocent people for the color of their skin" doesn't do the problem justice.

Fair enough. Doesn't make me feel any safer around police though.

[OL]

Wow, I was kind of surprised this topic was even still a thing when I checked into it this morning, and now it's a whole two pages fatter. It's The Blob.

[AnimeGamer183]

[shredingskin]

I'm being entirely sarcastic.

Equating someone being arrested after threatening violence as censorship is a massive intellectual fallacy on a very, very large scale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

Sadly you are being the violent one that thinks supressing speech by state force is required.

[OmegaDawn]

deleted

[Himuro]

Okay, omega is cool. But shreding you're being flat out silly and hyperbolic. I'm not going to address your point because you think supporting someone being arrested for hate speech is violence. Talk about foolish.

Omega, I don't agree personally. I think your point has a lot more merit than Shreding's does. It's nice that Shreding is making an argument at all at this point in the debate. I didn't he was capable. You're right though. Once the state thinks any surveillance is good, all surveillance is good and justify spying on their own citizens. So I can definitely see that viewpoint. However, in the notion of hate speech, peopl have proved time and time again that not taking it seriously often results in complete disregard for the social contract and is very much societal negligence. For example, in America, we had a school shooting just last week. 4chan was warned that it would happen, and made a complete joke out of it. The Charleston shooter stayed with a family and told them he was going to kill a bunch of people. They brushed it off as simply being drunk. He killed 9 people in a church who trusted him and were praying in cold, bloody murder.

So there's a line. It's true that not all cases of threat of violence has merit or is true, but there's also cases where there's warnings, someone says they're going to do something and it happens.

At the very least, if someone threatened to find everyone on Shenmue Dojo's address and kill all of us, even if you don't agree that authorities should step in and make an arrest, they should at least monitor the individual and make sure such a thing doesn't happen? Because if you think we shouldn't do a thing, I completely disagree with that. I'm also not convinced that saying all white men should die or that shooting up a school is exactly liberty. Freedom should not be above collective humanity.

Ultimately though, what does any of this have to do with feminism?