God won't save anyone.

[Joe Pesci]

You can't touch something that doesn't want to be touched, especially if it defies the laws of physics. If we could touch god, it would create a terrible controversy, don't you think?

[vendego]

I believe in God. Simply because I was supposed to die but I survived. I was drinking to much and got Alcohol Blood Poisoning. And I was dead for a couple of minutes. But no, I would never say "god is watching over me". Well in a sense, he's watching all of us. I just say it wasn't my time to go.

[IveBeenCensored]

But it depends on if you believe in your religion, so all of you who are wrong will find out when you die. So you are going to hell, or you are going to take the eternal dirt nap, either way you are screwed.

but what about if you follow religion but follow the wrong one? There are so manyh religions and varieties on religions, whos to know which one, if any, is correct. I guess if you pick the wrong one you're going to hell too. Oh well, too bad.

I think South Park put it well with something like this: a bunch of people finding themselves in hell "but why are we here, we were practicing Catholics" and the devil responds with "ya that wasn't eh right religion", "so what was it", "morman", "oh, morman!" to show the ridiculousness of it.

sorry I can't find the quote of this, but you get the idea

Anyways my point is, if God is good, wouldn't he judge a person on how they lived their life rather than what they believed. Should someone be sent to hell just because they were misinformed or a bit igrnorant to the existance of God even if they lived life as a good person? Religious beliefs often come from family and surroundings, so God would essentially be punishing people with non religious family or people born in non Christian countries (all of China is punished, etc.) Should God not judge based on a person being good or evil rather than whether they have blind faith in a God they have no proof exists?

[IveBeenCensored]

or another South Park description of why bad thigns happen to good people (this one I got the actual quote)
Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"

Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"

Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"

Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."

Stan : "I think I understand."

[Martin]

God is merely a human concept, and therefore, does not exist.

So is a hot dog, and that exists.

Incorrect (a hotdog is not only a conept, it's a real thing), and an extremely bad example. Comparing something like God (I'll give 'him' his capitol G), which is just a concept, and has never been anything more, to a snack which has existed for a hundred years, and is eaten by millions of people everyday is not doing you, or your point/argument any favours at all.

But it depends on if you believe in your religion, so all of you who are wrong will find out when you die. So you are going to hell, or you are going to take the eternal dirt nap, either way you are screwed.

But why believe in any 'proper' religion? All the major organised religions on earth are, at their core, just massive money-making companies. At the time of their creation, as well as making a fortune, they were created as a form of control. It's debatable whether the 'control' aspect still exists, and many would fiercely oppose such a notion, as no-one wants to admit that they are being controlled in any way.

Furthermore, the whole point of controlling a person in this manner is to do it so that they feel asif it's all free-will, and that stupid man-made concepts like 'God' really do exist. If a person where to notice, or recognise that they were being controlled, then they would, by virtue of this realisation, already have broken-free of the manipulation, thus the control would have failed. So it has to be done very subtly and cleverly.

But yeah, many would argue that last point. No-one can argue that religion is still very much a full-blown money-making enterprise, in my opinion (the Vatican, etc..). It's common knowledge. Seems like a difficult thing to accept, at first, but when you look at the facts, that's the only real conclusion one can come to.

I'd also argue that, while religion isn't necessarily actively used as a method of controlling the masses in this day and age, it still remains so. It's a social phenimona that's passed down through the generations. It's no coincidence that traditionally, children with very religious parents grow up to be religious themselves.

That's all part of the control, and the clever way in which it works. It doesn't even need to be actively persued and carried out, anymore. The control is so ingrained in our society, that it sustains itself. Kids like I mentioned a moment ago, they 'inherit' (for want of a better word) their religiousness, or 'faith' from their parents. This is not how everyone becomes religious, obviously, but the vast majority.

Still, I think most people would argue with me on that one. Nevertheless, it's very plain to me what religion is, and what it stands for. It's not necesarily a bad thing, most religious people are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. That's what religion does to a person. I'm not even against religion, really. Unfortunatly, I can't believe in a blatent lie.

So I say, have faith in god, and if he is real, then you will be rewarded.

And completely fuck my life up in the process? Have you even seen some of the shit religious people put themselves through? Besides, there's nothing to have faith in. God does not exist, except in people's minds. 'He' is just a concept. An idea, if you will.

It's no coincidense that every part of the world has it's own (organised and money-centred) religion. Christianity is just our one. If 'God' actually existed, and if religion was actually 'true' (you get what I'm saying), then there would be only one.

'He' is no more real than a comic-book character. And just like comic-book characters, there's millions of different ones. So.. I might as well just go and have faith in Superman, nes pas?

I'm not huge into god, and I don't think you have to be to have faith in him. I'm not the type of person who will say, "Thank you god, for blessing me with this talent of being able to break a wine glass over someone's head and get away with it." Or I wouldn't say "God saved me from the wild, carnivorus panda/koala/fajita/ platapus.

You get what I'm sayin'?

Erm, I think so

You class youself as a Christian, but really, you're not a 'proper' Christian. You are kind of agnostic, but sort of lean towards Christianity, am I right?

[OL]

What do you guys think? Will God save anyone?

To quote Bender from Futurama: "Fat chance. You can't count on God for jack! He pretty much told me so himself. Now come on. If we don't save those monks no one will!"

Words to live by.

[Martin]

Aman (get it..? ).

[Sh2daK]

I believe in God. Simply because I was supposed to die but I survived. I was drinking to much and got Alcohol Blood Poisoning. And I was dead for a couple of minutes. But no, I would never say "god is watching over me". Well in a sense, he's watching all of us. I just say it wasn't my time to go.

You're a complete idiot...You're obviously looking for some sad excuse to your shitty existence after that crappy little incident. God didn't save you. You obviously aren't intelligent enough to consider the variables processed with you in comparison to someone that actually died from alcohol poisoning. There are too many to consider before assuming that 'God' saved you, and believe me, you would reach a logical verdict way before you were close to seing the writing that 'God saved you'.

"How can you possible assume that?" you ask.

The same thing happened to three other people i've known in my life, they're still alive, did god save them aswell? Does god save everyone that drinks too much alcohol??? Do you like to suck cock??????

Now, despite the rise in alcohol related deaths (because there are alot), i'm assuming right now that actual DEATH from alcohol poisoning is of a small statistic of the over-all cases of alcohol poisoning. I don't mean to say a tiny percentage, but merely a minority, it's a big issue due to the amount of drinkers out there, BUT most cases aren't severe enough for your locally trained hospital staff not to be able to handle.

I agree with 'Martin' mostly.

-Sh2DaK-

[vendego]

I said god saved me? Show me where...

[ac2u]

No harm to anyone who took part in this. But what a pointless thing this all is. It's a matter of belief, you either do, or you don't. As for my belief, well, that's none of anyone's business.

This is another "Does God exist?" debate disguised with a different title.

People have different beliefs. Get over it.

[Clint]

^Talking about the most debatable thing in the world is not a pointless subject.

I find it very interesting actually, thus why I created this thread with an added poll.

[Staplerfahrer Klaus]

People have different beliefs. Get over it.

By that reasoning, this subforum should not exist. We're having a discussion. Get over it.

[RyoHazuki1987]

This is another "Does God exist?" debate disguised with a different title.

People have different beliefs. Get over it.

I disagree, one can very well believe that God exists without believe that God will intervene and save them or anyone else. Someone who doesn't believe that a God exists would of course say that God won't save anyone, but I still believe that this is an interesting topic.

As Clint said, a debate about the most debateable thing in the world is not pointless. There are many interesting sides to this topic. For example, how about if God doesn't intervene himself, but rather commissions "Guardian Angels" to protect people. What would the Guardian Angels protect people from?

Just because you don't want to debate a topic doesn't mean you have to come in and say that the people debating it are wasting their time. You said "no harm" at the beginning of the post, but when you follow that by calling this "pointless" it someone negates your opening statement.

I think we are "over" the fact that other people have other beliefs. Discussing with people whose opinions might be different shows, to me at least, an openness with the fact that not everyone agrees.

[KiBa]

Klaus wrote:

Silent Wings wrote:
bigots... and I say he does.

You seem to really like that word. I don't get it, apart from maybe the OP by a stretch, who here is being intolerant?

The topic is intolerant. It has a deeper purpose than being a legitimate and deeply curious query and everyone capable of abstract thought knows it. Forget the fact it's being pushed further as a "fair" debate! What a farse!

I do, actually, say the word quite often, but I should also think it equally obvious that it's because most people here really are bigots! This is nothing more than yet another "I don't believe in God, therefore religion should be banned" topic.
Is anyone here really that stupid that you think intelligent people can't see through this ridiculous game you play all the time?
I mean LOL! get over yourselves! I've never (NEVER!) seen a topic started in this Euro, spiritually degenerate forum of miscreants that forms any kind of honest religious opinion. The only religious topics posted here are from raving atheists whose words are as transparent and foundless as the wind, meant not for a real debate, but for a circus where religious people are put on display to be ridiculed for days.

You know what the real joke is? You'll find a stray post now and then regarding how bad racism is, or how bad some people in this shit world are treated, and yet more hollow rhetoric about "fairness," but no one really gives a damn because you still use people of faith as scapegoats for all the problems in the world. I'm sick of hypocrisy among idiots, but I suppose that's exactly where I should expect to find it.

[Martin]

Klaus wrote:

Silent Wings wrote:
bigots... and I say he does.

You seem to really like that word. I don't get it, apart from maybe the OP by a stretch, who here is being intolerant?

The topic is intolerant. It has a deeper purpose than being a legitimate and deeply curious query and everyone capable of abstract thought knows it. Forget the fact it's being pushed further as a "fair" debate! What a farse!

I don't agree. I put it to you that you are merely angered in some way by the majority voting 'no'. This is a fair debate. No-one's holding a gone to your head and saying "Agree with us, motherfucker!".

I do, actually, say the word quite often, but I should also think it equally obvious that it's because most people here really are bigots! This is nothing more than yet another "I don't believe in God, therefore religion should be banned" topic.
Is anyone here really that stupid that you think intelligent people can't see through this ridiculous game you play all the time?
I mean LOL! get over yourselves! I've never (NEVER!) seen a topic started in this Euro, spiritually degenerate forum of miscreants that forms any kind of honest religious opinion. The only religious topics posted here are from raving atheists whose words are as transparent and foundless as the wind, meant not for a real debate, but for a circus where religious people are put on display to be ridiculed for days.

Let's have some clarity, here:

big-ot
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

If we are bigots, then so are you. I think most, if not all, have said what they've had to say in a non-offensive way. I've seen nothing here to provoke the reaction from your post. I'll agree that it's a fairly common type of thread in this forum, but this is the debate forum, and this happens to be one of the most debated topics in the world. Increasingly so, in fact. Therefore it should come to no suprise that we talk about it often, here.

I don't know where this apparent hatred of Athiests comes from. I myself am Agnostic, and if never gone off on one like that. Then you insult everyone by calling the us all 'spiritually degenerate'. I'm not sure what to say to you about that. Either you're just insulting us in this way just to give yourself some degree of superiority, or you're just plain insulting us. Either way it's pathetic of you, and a tactic which is totally below you. Just because we aren't Christians, doesn't make us 'spiritually degenerate'. In fact, I would argue that the spirituality of people who don't conform to traditional organized, money-making religions (which are run like corrupt businesses) is often stronger than those who do.

You know what the real joke is? You'll find a stray post now and then regarding how bad racism is, or how bad some people in this shit world are treated, and yet more hollow rhetoric about "fairness," but no one really gives a damn because you still use people of faith as scapegoats for all the problems in the world. I'm sick of hypocrisy among idiots, but I suppose that's exactly where I should expect to find it.

Your religion is full of hypocracy, so don't come here calling us hypocrits, and/or idiots. Again, I put it to you that you're just being frustrated by the overwhelming reaction against your kind of organized religion. Understandable, but please calm down. It's posts like yours which ruin threads like this.