War in Syria

[Yokosuka Martian]

I'm sure a World War III will give an economy boost, but shit what's with all the fighting ?

[Sonikku]

Yeah, there are some demented evil dictators in the world, who do horrifying things, but I can't think of many (any?) occasions when intervention has actually helped anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

It's too bad that victory for intervention is not always assured. But that can't always be an excuse to never bother and always turn a blind eye. I think the collective world has given Assad a great deal of latitude up to this point. But there comes a time when simply ignoring madmen gassing their people to death will stain the conscience of a generation.

[mue 26]

But wasn't action only taken when Hitler, ya know, started trying to take over the world and invading nations left right and centre? Anyway, I don't think we should just do nothing and turn a blind eye while atrocities are happening, but clearly diplomatic efforts- which don't involve blowing shit up- and not threats of reactionary trigger happy violence are the way to go in a situation like Syria.

I'm sure America wants to look strong through this kind of military action, but they don't seem to be considering the actual consequences. It's all well and good to spout moral platitudes about standing up to a madman like Assad, but what is the point of taking such action when it's in all liklihood just going to make things worse. The whole region is volatile as fuck right now, and US bombing won't be good for the Syrian people. Even if America's intentions were pure and selfless (and lets not kid ourselves, they aren't, US and Britain are clearly heavily invested in trying to off Assad and his regime, and the US wants to avoid looking weak), it doesn't count for anything if it leads to increased death and destruction. And it will. So why are so many stupid politicians so hasty to rush into this? We've seen this all before folks, and it doesn't lead anywhere rosy, just have a look at Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya. Stupid, rushed, unplanned military action that leads to disastrous consequences will stain the conscience of a generation.

Stross on it: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-st ... .html#more

But let's leave the right and wrong of it alone. It's horrendous stuff, and deliberate use of gas in war is a war crime, but assigning blame is something for the International Court in the Hague to untangle. Here's the problem, as I see it: it's being used as a rallying cry to drag the US military—and the UK—into yet another colonial war in the Middle East.

If the USA and UK go down this route, we will end up killing innocent civilians. And not just a handful; we don't have the expertise to tell Syrian rebels from government loyalists. It's a civil war. They're fighting battles within built-up areas inside cities. Sending in the bombers will work about as well as it ever did (i.e. somewhere between "broke a lot of windows" and "killed a couple of million civilians who were minding their own business"). It won't solve the essential political problem, which is the legacy of the imperial 70/25/5 divide-and-conquer principle. If it does succeed in targeting the Syrian government forces to the point where the rebels emerge as victors, it may even be setting up the preconditions for anti-Alawaite pogroms and genocide.

This is also a sensible read: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -policeman

[St. Elmo's Fire]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23892783

This should please some of you, it kinda pleases me as well tbh.

[MiTT3NZ]

Good. It's not our fight. Next time we go to war it should only ever be:

- In response to an attack on our nation;
- Defending/assisting an ally that has been attacked;
OR
- Invading a country to kick the shit out of everyone and stick a huge fuck-off flag in the ground as we cry "THE EMPIRE'S BACK, BABY!"

[Henry Spencer]

I'm in two minds about it; obviously I want to see the people of Syria have a life where fear doesn't rule over them and they can be happy, but I also feel that it isn't our right to just invade whoever and whatever. It's really up to the nearby countries and the UN to step in here and deal with the situation in whatever way they can/feel they have to. I know that this will peeve the US off, though...

[Axm]

Yeah, there are some demented evil dictators in the world, who do horrifying things, but I can't think of many (any?) occasions when intervention has actually helped anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

It's too bad that victory for intervention is not always assured. But that can't always be an excuse to never bother and always turn a blind eye. I think the collective world has given Assad a great deal of latitude up to this point. But there comes a time when simply ignoring madmen gassing their people to death will stain the conscience of a generation.

some fun facts about the rebels

-the strongest fighting force of the rebels are al nusra, an al quaeda affiliate that are responsible for suicide bombings in Damascus that killed over 50 people, decapitating priests and shooting 16 year olds dead for mentioning the name of prophet mohammed in vein
-the secular fighters of the rebels (a small section of the FSA) are extremely weak and recently got their leader killed by al nusra
-al nusra view Israel and America as the greatest evil out there and want the destruction of both nations (through any means necessary)
-members of al nusra were caught in Turkey with 2kgs of sarin gas (now we know they don't care about collateral damage since they conducted suicide bombings in Damascus meaning they could have conducted the attack themselves to turn the tables through western intervention since recently they have started losing hard against assad)

Now let's see who would have better motive to use the gas, assad who had just invited UN inspectors in to his country and was currently winning the war or the rebels who have already conducted attacks killing loads of civilians and currently need a way to turn the tables before they lose?

and it's a good thing you mention the holocaust since every religious minority in Syria is absolutely petrified that assad loses since they know they will be massacred en mass, that's why they have all picked up arms and fighting alongside assad and why even hezbollah have joined in on assads side

Now I'm not saying assad is good, after all he is a dictator with a brutal record just like his father but removing him or weakening him so that the rebels can win would be disastrous for the region and Syria, violence will spill in to Lebanon as a result of hezbollah aiding assad (it already has, see the recent bombings and shooting in beirut and tripoli) al nusra will take on their fight to Israel, they will be providing more aid to their colleagues in Iraq that are already killing thousands of people, religious minorities especially Islamic sects will be massacred countrywide in Syria, assad supporters will be lined up and shot (they already are)

now tell me, even if assad did use the chemical weapons, considering everything I just said do you think it would be worth helping the rebels at this point?

I know that this will peeve the US off, though...

Fuck them we've been following them in to too much bullshit for too long now, hopefully this is the beginning of a new era where we don't just jump on board like a happy little chihuahua every time the US has decided to invade somewhere. it felt surreal when parliament kept on mentioning Iraq as a huge mistake never to repeat

[Bluecast]

If Jeff was here he would praise the US ans say we should nuke all those "savages"

Can we nuke the US gov instead? I would not shed a tear if Obama was dead. Be happy. US Gov can't even help it's own people then polices the fucking world. US soldiers praised as hereos when really over there you would see them acting like dickwarts like anyone with a badge. We need to stay out of these places. Just because you send a few troops in and blow some shit up does not make democracy just happen...besides US knows nothing of democracy anymore.

phpBB [video]

[Axm]

Can we nuke the US gov instead? I would not shed a tear if Obama was dead. Be happy.

US soldiers praised as hereos when really over there you would see them acting like dickwarts like anyone with a badge.

[Bluecast]

See even Tommy Lee Jones abuses the badge. Some dude killing people with a Oxy tank and he sits there reading the paper.

[Riku Rose]

Can we nuke the US gov instead? I would not shed a tear if Obama was dead. Be happy. US Gov can't even help it's own people then polices the fucking world. US soldiers praised as hereos when really over there you would see them acting like dickwarts like anyone with a badge. We need to stay out of these places. Just because you send a few troops in and blow some shit up does not make democracy just happen...besides US knows nothing of democracy anymore.

phpBB [video]

Yeah fuck the government who help keep you alive and help you get money when you can't work. You could probably count on your fingers the amount of countries that would keep you alive and homed in your condition. The US government are far from perfect but you should be a bit more grateful for what they give you.

Also fuck off with the slagging off soldiers. Those guys put their life on the line doing their job and many come home missing a limb or two. If you think they do it just to shoot people you really are narrow minded. It's very easy to take the piss out of people while you sit at home making youtube videos about the latest video game collectors edition you've got, but I for one know a few people who have been involved in the recent wars and most come back in a much worse state be it health or financial wise.

Your ignorance is fucking disgusting.

[mue 26]

al nusra will take on their fight to Israel

interesting, I would have thought anything America does in that region would have had Israel's interests at heart, or at least be in tandem with Israel's interests in some way or another as has usually been the case. And we know Hezbollah is certainly no friend of Israel, in fact I think I remember a Nasrallah speech around the time they got involved in Syria, in which he claimed to be getting involved partly due to fear that if the American backed rebels won in Syria he felt Israel would go on to dominate the region, or something like that. Mind you that may not have had anything to do with his reasoning in reality, he likely only got involved due to religious affinity with Assad's side. There is surely a bunch of conflicting interests here though.

Also I'm pleased with the outcome of the vote. For once, democracy prevails!

[Bluecast]

Can we nuke the US gov instead? I would not shed a tear if Obama was dead. Be happy. US Gov can't even help it's own people then polices the fucking world. US soldiers praised as hereos when really over there you would see them acting like dickwarts like anyone with a badge. We need to stay out of these places. Just because you send a few troops in and blow some shit up does not make democracy just happen...besides US knows nothing of democracy anymore.

phpBB [video]

Yeah fuck the government who help keep you alive and help you get money when you can't work. You could probably count on your fingers the amount of countries that would keep you alive and homed in your condition. The US government are far from perfect but you should be a bit more grateful for what they give you.

Also fuck off with the slagging off soldiers. Those guys put their life on the line doing their job and many come home missing a limb or two. If you think they do it just to shoot people you really are narrow minded. It's very easy to take the piss out of people while you sit at home making youtube videos about the latest video game collectors edition you've got, but I for one know a few people who have been involved in the recent wars and most come back in a much worse state be it health or financial wise.

Your ignorance is fucking disgusting.

Yes fuck the US military who rape women on a daily basis and often the CO who is the one doing it. Except the women are the ones getting punished for getting raped. Check out invisible War. great doc http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2120152/

Fuck the US military who went to iraq and took photo's torturing men. Fuck the US military killing thousands of civilians. Fuck the US military in Vietnam often raped and murdered families because they were "chinks" It doesn't mean fuck every single one but many like anyone by human nature abuses the badge. I spent time in a mental ward with one. I knew a guy from my dad who wore an ear necklace after nam. One of my coaches was on the Korean war.
Also anyone remember the video with the soldier torturing and killing dogs? There are always a few good men like Pat tilman but good men like anywhere are the exception not the rule.


Yes fuck Obama who has NOTHING to do with me getting on SSI but try and prevent it. In fact Obama is the one trying to take benefits away from disabled and seniors and Obama is with the NSA shit and SOPA.

[QWERTY]

If Jeff was here he would praise the US ans say we should nuke all those "savages"

Can we nuke the US gov instead? I would not shed a tear if Obama was dead. Be happy. US Gov can't even help it's own people then polices the fucking world. US soldiers praised as hereos when really over there you would see them acting like dickwarts like anyone with a badge. We need to stay out of these places. Just because you send a few troops in and blow some shit up does not make democracy just happen...besides US knows nothing of democracy anymore.

I'd stop biting the hand that feeds you if I were you. Not every country has the capacity to provide the disabled with an opportunity to extend their life with a much needed life-saving operation. It's a shame that some people in your country would rather pass up that opportunity so that they can live a lazy lifestyle on disability benefits because they're work-shy and would rather sit at home on a scabby old lazy boy and play videogames like a fucking child.

[St. Elmo's Fire]

"Abusing the badge" - Like, the one that said "Administrator" under your name a while back?

;-)

I didn't know those facts that South Carmain posted, interesting. Also what Mue_26 said. Those making the decisions will know all this as well and they probably likely know who actually did use the gas first, so another messy situation where they "liberate" and then nobody is really in power (which is about when the shit will really hit the fan in much nastier ways than before) and a messy handover to some coalition made up of sides that pretty much despise one another seems like a possibility. Along with the way the media has been preparing us all for this by painting the Syrians as "the bad guys" with such frequency and regularity, makes me think that Assad will be getting the boot one way or another.