Boxing

[Res]

^ This proves that mothers don't know best. None of this would've happened if Hopkins stayed true to his promise to his momma.

What a week for boxing. Roy Jones, jr gets ko'd again, De La Hoya goes to rehab, and Bernard Hopkins, at 46, becomes the oldest ever to win a title. I loved how he did push ups in the middle of the ring while waiting for the 28 year old Pascal to get up off his seat.

Along with Hopkins' immense talent, there are two other reasons why he is so good at his age. First of all, he was in prison for five years until he was 23 and this is when he started training for boxing. Thus, he does not have the wear and tear of most fighters, especially considering he skipped the amateurs completely. Secondly, he does not waste energy in the ring. He stands there, waiting for the right moment and never seems to waste a punch.

Next up for Hopkins, as already mentioned on this thread, is Chad Dawson. That should be a dandy. Next up for boxing is nothing much other than that Super-middleweight tournament semi-finals. Though, there's also the hall of fame inductions next month which include quite a class: Tyson, Chavez, Tszyu, Cortez (a referee who is overrated in my opinon) and even Sylvester Stallone.

[Jokatech19]

Another old dog, Glen Johnson, set to take on Carl Froch in the Super Six World Boxing Classic. He claims that only a few gifted fighters can compete past 40 and he is one of them. I'm not sure with the stupid losses that he has, but he does still seem to have his scruppels. Don't see him making a run at any major title. Ironically, he has been known as a fighter who loses by decision if anything and being tough to take out, yet his only KO loss is to Hopkins who isn't a KO artist. LOL

[Res]

Well, Froch beat Johnson as you seemed to expect. He faces Ward later this year. Let's see what happens. Some good news meanwhile, Mayweather is coming out of retirement to face Victor Ortiz. This is great for boxing because there's no way Mayweather would come out of retirement a second time without intending to face Pacquiao (unless, of course, he gets scared again).

The Boxing Hall of Fame had a great class. What do you think of Tyson in the Hall of Fame? For that matter, what do you think of Sylvester Stallone in the Hall of Fame? I thought it was cool that Stallone ended his speech by saying, "Yo Adrian, I did it!"

My favorite question: If Rocky Balboa was real, would he be in the Hall of Fame?

[Jokatech19]

If I were Pacman, I would give Floyd a taste of his own garbage. I would say to go screw yourself and that I'm a politician now and don't need his garbage, but if I get the urge anytime, I'll let him know. Then let him sweat. The only reason that Floyd is jumping into action now is because he figures the attention is off of him and Manny is distracted enough to be easy prey in a match- typical Floyd Gayfeather crap.

As far as Rocky Balboa being in the HOF, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he would translate to an Arturo Gatti, who is a hall of fame fighter, though not inducted yet. So the easy answer is yes. However, Rocky is based off of the real life boxer Chuck Wepner, who I'm not so sure about.

[Res]

I would say no to Rocky Balboa and I'm on the fence with Gatti, though mostly leaning towards no. Convince me on both.

[Jokatech19]

Well, I'm not a fan of Punching-Bag face Rocky myself, so I can't dispute. But, as much as i was shocked myself, Gatti actually did compile a Hall-of-Fame Career. He didn't lose nearly as much as I thought he did and was in some memorable wars. He had is wars with Micky Ward, and compiled a 40-9 record. He won 2 world championships in 2 different weight classes and had a long career. So I think in time, he will probably be inducted whether we like it or not. LOL

[Res]

So I think in time, he will probably be inducted whether we like it or not. LOL

Well, that's just it, isn't it? The real question should be whether or not he gets into the hall of fame as opposed to whether or not we think he should be. Like every sport, boxing has some athletes in the hall of fame that don't deserve it. Gatti is borderline, and I think he will get in but I think he doesn't deserve it. After his first world title he lost to Ivan Robinson twice. Lost to De La Hoya easily. Even lost to Micky Ward who, I mean no disrespect, should never have been able to beat Gatti. Arturo's second world title was a bogus one against a bum. Sure he destroyed Dorin but then he was destroyed by Mayweather. Significant wins? Not many, Dorin is the most impressive one.

What about the guys that are not in the hall but should be? I think there's an American bias for sure. How does Chris Eubank and Nigel benn not get in? Naseem Hamed should be in, too, even though I wasn't a fan of his I can't deny that he dominated his weightclass. Certainly, all three are more deserving than Gatti but Gatti will probably get in before them.

[Jokatech19]

Wow Res, you make some very good points there. It's a shame that the Hall of Fame is very Americanized. It seems like it's more about frills and flash than impact. Even a fighter like Ike Quartey may not get in with an astounding career.

[darksniper]

I think Floyd is setting up his next fight to be Pacquaio. We'll know who Pac's next opponent will be once the Marquez fight gets closer. This has been done in all of Pac's recent fights.

I think Mayweather will show some ring rust against Victor Ortiz, but by round 4 he will find his rhythm and dominate him like he's done all of his opponents. As far as the Pac fight is concerned, I think anyone who is truly expecting Manny to win will be disappointed. Floyd's superior boxing skills and ring generalship will decrease Manny's punch output and we will see a boring 12 round unanimous decision in favor of Mayweather.

[Jokatech19]

I think Floyd is setting up his next fight to be Pacquaio. We'll know who Pac's next opponent will be once the Marquez fight gets closer. This has been done in all of Pac's recent fights.

I think Mayweather will show some ring rust against Victor Ortiz, but by round 4 he will find his rhythm and dominate him like he's done all of his opponents. As far as the Pac fight is concerned, I think anyone who is truly expecting Manny to win will be disappointed. Floyd's superior boxing skills and ring generalship will decrease Manny's punch output and we will see a boring 12 round unanimous decision in favor of Mayweather.

Under normal circumstances in a vacuum, I would agree with you. However, not just being a Pacquiao fan, but also just analyzing it all, I find that Manny is not an ordinary boxer. All of his opponents find out the hard way and are shocked. Floyd is shocked as well. There is a very distinct reason why Floyd starting dodging this fight like crazy. He only does that because he is fearful of an imminent loss. Manny is smarter than all of the other fighters and that's what makes it such a huge difference. This is aside from his skill which is ever expanding and highly underrated. There are only a handful of fighers in the entire world who are actually highly intelligent and don't rely on a routine or athleticism. Manny and Floyd are two of them. So there won't be the usual disrupting of his opponents strategy by Floyd that he's use to. That's why he's afraid. He doesn't have a clear answer. Like the coward his is, he doesn't want a fight that he will have to win on his own.

[KiBa]

Boxing is savage. Man is not meant to harm man, especially not as a game.

[darksniper]

Pacman circles when he fights more than ever, has gained more power than he had before, and has become much more of a counterpuncher. Crosses his feet? Leads with his head? Wow. That's insane. You must be stuck on film from the Morales loss and the Marquez fights, because that is totally wrong. Any boxing enthusiast and practioner will tell you he has some of the best foot work in ages. He does not lead with his head. He jabs like a big fighter and protects himself more than ever. There is a reason his form is being compared to the greats. Whatever you're seeing no longer exists. He is nothing like the Pacqiao that fought Marquez years ago. There is every reason to believe he will dominate that fight. If he hadn't evolved, like I said, he would not have put the work in he has over these past years. Anyone can see the stark transformation. They are two fighters at the opposite side of the spectrum right now. Get over the close fights they had back then. Look at the film of then, and now. And look at the body of work. Manny has had to improve and step up. We'll have to agree to disagree, because I see all kinds of flaws in what you're saying.

I think both sides are at fault for the fight not happening. You can't just place the blame solely on Floyd. Especially when he agreed to fight Pac as long as both fighters undergo olympic style drug testing. In fact, Mayweather has been the one pushing for the fight to happen as of recent with his "Take the test" T-shirt campaign going on.

Manny is still the same fighter he was before. He's added wrinkles to his style yes, but his bread and butter is still his 1-2, move to the left, 1-2, move to the right etc. When Shane Mosley got on his bike, it became evident when Pac started missing a lot of his punches. Floyd has the reach advantage and lateral movement against Pac, he will stay out Pac's 1-2 range and potshot him with lead straight rights the whole fight, not to mention in and out jabs to the body as soon as Pac thinks about throwing a punch. This will reduce Pac's volume punching output and make him think about every punch he throws, and that's what Floyd wants.

Floyd is also good at tying his opponents up once they get into range of attack. So if Manny does get in, look for Floyd to dirty it up by strategic clinching and effective use of his elbows. Floyd fights in the pocket very well, so if Manny cannot force Floyd into a brawl early, Floyd is going to box his head off for 12 rounds.

We really don't know how much Pac has improved since the Marquez fight because Manny has not fought an opponent of Marquez's caliber since.... Marquez. The quality of Pacs opponents since Marquez is very questionable

David Diaz-Garbage
Oscar De La Hoya-Weight drained at 147, a weight class he has not fought in nearly a decade
Ricky Hatton-Still fresh off the Floyd loss, was not the same fighter since.
Miguel Cotto-Legit win
Joshua Clottey-Coming off of a Cotto loss, lost every big fight he's ever been in besides Zab Judah
Antonio Margarito-One year layoff, got KTFO by Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley-39 years old, looked terrible against Floyd, looked even worse against Sergio Mora in a draw

All of Pacs recent opponents have been come forward fighters that have been strategically picked to make him look good. Whenever Pac goes against a counterpuncher, he catches hell. Which is why Marquez continues to frustrate him and why Morales beat him. Floyd will be by far the greatest counterpuncher he's ever faced, which is why I think Mayweather is going to impressively beat Pac in a fight that will not meet expectations.

[Bluecast]

Boxing is savage. Man is not meant to harm man, especially not as a game.

*punches kiba in the face! WOO! I'm now a talented millionaire athlete! ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!

[Jokatech19]

Pacman circles when he fights more than ever, has gained more power than he had before, and has become much more of a counterpuncher. Crosses his feet? Leads with his head? Wow. That's insane. You must be stuck on film from the Morales loss and the Marquez fights, because that is totally wrong. Any boxing enthusiast and practioner will tell you he has some of the best foot work in ages. He does not lead with his head. He jabs like a big fighter and protects himself more than ever. There is a reason his form is being compared to the greats. Whatever you're seeing no longer exists. He is nothing like the Pacqiao that fought Marquez years ago. There is every reason to believe he will dominate that fight. If he hadn't evolved, like I said, he would not have put the work in he has over these past years. Anyone can see the stark transformation. They are two fighters at the opposite side of the spectrum right now. Get over the close fights they had back then. Look at the film of then, and now. And look at the body of work. Manny has had to improve and step up. We'll have to agree to disagree, because I see all kinds of flaws in what you're saying.

I think both sides are at fault for the fight not happening. You can't just place the blame solely on Floyd. Especially when he agreed to fight Pac as long as both fighters undergo olympic style drug testing. In fact, Mayweather has been the one pushing for the fight to happen as of recent with his "Take the test" T-shirt campaign going on.

Manny is still the same fighter he was before. He's added wrinkles to his style yes, but his bread and butter is still his 1-2, move to the left, 1-2, move to the right etc. When Shane Mosley got on his bike, it became evident when Pac started missing a lot of his punches. Floyd has the reach advantage and lateral movement against Pac, he will stay out Pac's 1-2 range and potshot him with lead straight rights the whole fight, not to mention in and out jabs to the body as soon as Pac thinks about throwing a punch. This will reduce Pac's volume punching output and make him think about every punch he throws, and that's what Floyd wants.

Floyd is also good at tying his opponents up once they get into range of attack. So if Manny does get in, look for Floyd to dirty it up by strategic clinching and effective use of his elbows. Floyd fights in the pocket very well, so if Manny cannot force Floyd into a brawl early, Floyd is going to box his head off for 12 rounds.

We really don't know how much Pac has improved since the Marquez fight because Manny has not fought an opponent of Marquez's caliber since.... Marquez. The quality of Pacs opponents since Marquez is very questionable

David Diaz-Garbage
Oscar De La Hoya-Weight drained at 147, a weight class he has not fought in nearly a decade
Ricky Hatton-Still fresh off the Floyd loss, was not the same fighter since.
Miguel Cotto-Legit win
Joshua Clottey-Coming off of a Cotto loss, lost every big fight he's ever been in besides Zab Judah
Antonio Margarito-One year layoff, got KTFO by Shane Mosley
Shane Mosley-39 years old, looked terrible against Floyd, looked even worse against Sergio Mora in a draw

All of Pacs recent opponents have been come forward fighters that have been strategically picked to make him look good. Whenever Pac goes against a counterpuncher, he catches hell. Which is why Marquez continues to frustrate him and why Morales beat him. Floyd will be by far the greatest counterpuncher he's ever faced, which is why I think Mayweather is going to impressively beat Pac in a fight that will not meet expectations.

I agree with some of what you are saying strategy wise, but as far as resume's I have to dispute some of that. Not only Were The Margarito and Joshua Clottey fights legit wins, they both looked impressive in those fights against Manny moreso than any recent fights. If you are going to criticize in that light, they Floyd is guilty moreso than anyone. He is the king of opportunistic fighting. He fought some of those same opponents on even lower-lows to ensure a win. And to boot, he has dodged Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito altogether due to the danger he feels from those fights, excusing it away as a money issue. As far as technique, no one can dispute that Manny is worlds better than even his loss to Erik Morales in which he looked decent and that was after the Marquez draw. We have to get out of that era already. He's nowhere near the fighter he was then by any stretch. He was one-armed and one-dimensional mostly then. If the two fought now you'd be one of the very few shocked when Manny knocks him out in the early rounds. As far as the Mayweather fight, if Manny wins it will be a very hilarious day of reading on all these blogs and boards indeed. LOL

[Myles]

Boxing is savage. Man is not meant to harm man, especially not as a game.

Disagree, think it's a primal instinct to be the dominant male (alpha male). Started with gladiators.