The Future of the US seems kinda Bleek

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Postby Staplerfahrer Klaus » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:53 pm

Well, there's quite a bit about England that's better than the US. One such thing is that it has public healthcare. Of course, it has problems- such as the continued existence of the monarchy.

As you said though, I've heard good things about the Scandanavian countries.
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Postby Brandon_ » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:41 pm

In geopolitical discussions, involving the USA and europe, people always over look the fact that the USA HAS SOCIALIZED WELFARE AND HEALTHCARE. If you are poor you get food stamps and CHEAP government housing. If you are disabled, a senior, or mentally handicapted, you can get FREE SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE. My mother is only 45. She lost her left foot in a car accident last year. She is disabled. Therefor, she gets medicare/medicaid. If you are a senior(i BELIEVE its 60 and over) you get the same. The problem is that when you have to pay for health insurance, its hella expensive. I was covered under my dad's health insurance, but when i turned 18, the policy pushed me off. Now I have no health insurance. I am 20 and in college. So I am between being on my parents insurance and getting insurance on my own through a job. That is THE major problem with the insurance crisis. However, some colleges to offer student health insurance. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN FREE HEALTH INSURANCE. People who cannot work should be awarded insurance. People who are UNWILLING to provide for themselves should pay the consequences. This is not a socialist country. If John works 40 hours a week to get insurance and pay bills, Bubba that sits on his ass watching TV all day should NOT . He should die.


Moving on...

Most "civilized western" countries are different than the USA. Crime is a good example. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in a place like New York. I live in a small town of only 9,000 people. And I know there are places I not dare go at night. Gangs, crime, theft, rape, murder, all of these things are way out of control in the USA. I don't know the root cause. Some people say the USA is the garbage can of the world with all of the bad people. Some people say its our socioeconomic policy toward the poor. Some people say its white dominance making minorities feel less than human.

Lets talk about the military? The USA has been controversial since its founding. We slaughtered the indians. We have slaughtered in other countries. And if we want to win in Iraq, Baghdad, fallujuah, ramadi and Kirkuk should be under a Nuclear Cloud.

Have a wonderfull day.

[/u]
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Postby Kenshin » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:31 pm

Brandon_ wrote:And if we want to win in Iraq, Baghdad, fallujuah, ramadi and Kirkuk should be under a Nuclear Cloud.[/u]


What you've just said is absolutely ridiculous. You wouldn't happen to be JEFF by any chance would you. :lol:
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Postby Dragon Light » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:35 pm

seems like you have had a hard life
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Postby changed my mind » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:08 pm

Staplerfahrer Klaus wrote: Of course, it has problems- such as the continued existence of the monarchy.

That's more a matter of opinion. One person would like the monarchy to remain intact, another (like you) would want them removed in exchange for an elected head of state.

England has Europe's highest teen pregnancy rate - of course that is a problem. We've concluded they are a bad thing, so henceforth it IS a problem as we have a high figure. If you told that to a Lib Dem and a Thatcherite Conservative they would both agree this is a bad thing.... for once.

If the Avon and Somerset Police Force has the highest figure for home burglaries in all the UK's Police Constabularies both would say once again, this is a bad thing. Both would argue for different ways to solve this problem but would be nuts to say it is a good thing.

If Britains poverty rate was the lowest in the world, everyone would conclude this to be a good thing.
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Postby Staplerfahrer Klaus » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:19 pm

Brandon_ wrote:...people always over look the fact that the USA HAS SOCIALIZED WELFARE AND HEALTHCARE.

But you even said yourself that it's not for the masses (the healthcare, that is), and that alot of people don't have access to it. It's TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE, a completely publicised system is CHEAPER, so there is NO REASON not to have a public healthcare system.

I have no complaints about the U.S. welfare system, which seems to work (from what I've seen). Here the system is somewhat too easy to abuse.
This is not a socialist country. If John works 40 hours a week to get insurance and pay bills, Bubba that sits on his ass watching TV all day should NOT .

But if it were a socialist country, Bubba could not be sitting on his ass all day watching television.

EDIT- There again MJW, you could say that a problem that continues in every government all the time, and one which all parties would agree on, is poor allocation of tax money. Of course there's matters of degree involved, and people will argue over where exactly the money should go.

Now, if you say there's problems the parties agree on, what they will disagree about is the methods used to solve that problem. Getting rid of the monarchy could be considered one possible method.
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Postby Brandon_ » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:40 pm

Please englighten me. If i lived in Canada and had no job. The canadian army would burst into my house and throw me into a work camp? What would stop some lazy bastard from not working and recieving free governmental benefits.

and about Iraq...I have no idea who Jeff is. I just have common sense.
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Postby b_ren » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:23 pm

Staplerfahrer Klaus wrote:EDIT- There again MJW, you could say that a problem that continues in every government all the time, and one which all parties would agree on, is poor allocation of tax money. Of course there's matters of degree involved, and people will argue over where exactly the money should go.

Now, if you say there's problems the parties agree on, what they will disagree about is the methods used to solve that problem. Getting rid of the monarchy could be considered one possible method.


Then you can argue the fact that the monarchy bring in more money than what they are given ;) for example through tourism or the fact they do a lot of charity work.
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Postby IveBeenCensored » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:14 pm

Staplerfahrer Klaus wrote:
Brandon_ wrote:...people always over look the fact that the USA HAS SOCIALIZED WELFARE AND HEALTHCARE.

But you even said yourself that it's not for the masses (the healthcare, that is), and that alot of people don't have access to it. It's TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE, a completely publicised system is CHEAPER, so there is NO REASON not to have a public healthcare system.

I think a public healthcare system should be essential in any first world country. But public has its problems, especially with the baby boomers becoming seniors, its questionable if a smaller workforce (our generation) will be able to support a huge group of seniors. Its a pretty hot issue in Canada now, where a two tier private public health care system has been discussed. Public healthcare is generally not as good quality and wait times are huge. However, the benefit is that every person has access to it

This is not a socialist country. If John works 40 hours a week to get insurance and pay bills, Bubba that sits on his ass watching TV all day should NOT .

But if it were a socialist country, Bubba could not be sitting on his ass all day watching television.

thats communism. Socialism isn't that strong.

EDIT- There again MJW, you could say that a problem that continues in every government all the time, and one which all parties would agree on, is poor allocation of tax money. Of course there's matters of degree involved, and people will argue over where exactly the money should go.

Now, if you say there's problems the parties agree on, what they will disagree about is the methods used to solve that problem. Getting rid of the monarchy could be considered one possible method.

well the Queen is Canada's head of state as well. It is only a technicality and a huge waste of money. Since the Queen can't be here to sign bills and stuff, we have a Governor General who is her representative. Now this position is completely useless, since she can't actually make any laws or anything, she just signs what parliament or the senate (the senate is another huge waste of money that should be abolished) gives her. Then she spends millions on luxury travel expenses for "goodwill missions". Its completely stupid and I wish Canada would leave the monarchy.

Brandon_ wrote:Please englighten me. If i lived in Canada and had no job. The canadian army would burst into my house and throw me into a work camp? What would stop some lazy bastard from not working and recieving free governmental benefits.

and about Iraq...I have no idea who Jeff is. I just have common sense.


umm Canada isn't socialist. Maybe in comparison to the USA, but there is far too much privatization happening for us to be considered socialist. I hate privatization, prises rise, service decreases, etc. I'd say Canada is semi-socialist, like most other first world countries, although maybe a little more so (although I think he was talking about communism anyways)

There is nothing to stop a lazy person from not working, but the problem is not as simple as you've put it. Sure we could get rid of welfare, public health care, etc, but theres many problems I see.
1.) Not everyone who wants to work can. Unemployment figures only take into account people actively seeking employment (those who want to work), and its usually around 5% in most countries I believe. Its not always a matter of lazyness
2.) Many jobs pay not nearly enough to support a family. You can't really be expected to raise a family by working the cash register at Walmart
3.) Welfare and health insurance are for the family. If you want to cut it off, and the person is in fact just lazy, then sure you punish him, but his children should be punished too? This creates a nevereneding cycle of people stuck in the same situation.
4.) Not giving people necessities could encourage crime, since they need something and will do whatever necessary to recieve it. plus going to jail isn't all that bad in this situation, free food and shelter.

Now if all of these don't apply, the person truly doesn't want to work, they have no family, etc. I can see where your coming from. My personal opinion is you give them enough to get by, give them shelter and food, but little else. But thats just my left winged opinion and I can see where your coming from with yours, unfortunately I don't think its good justification for private health care.

And I doubt your Jeff, even with the flaws, your posts still seemed to have too much logic and not just "Bush said its okay so it must be"
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Postby Staplerfahrer Klaus » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:57 pm

B_Ren wrote:Then you can argue the fact that the monarchy bring in more money than what they are given ;) for example through tourism or the fact they do a lot of charity work.

I've heard the one about tourism before, but I still doubt it. I don't see how the royals attract tourists in any way. On the whole charity thing- if the money the royals spend on it is spent instead by the Government, it'll make no difference in the long run, and less will be wasted on this band of bureaucrats.
thats communism. Socialism isn't that strong.

It could be. Regardless, as you said, lazy people who refuse to work are not the biggest problem with a public healthcare system.

And yeah- Brandon is very mistaken in thinking that Canada is socialist.
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Postby KiBa » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:02 pm

Distributism.
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Re: The Future of the US seems kinda Bleek

Postby Geppetto » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:05 pm

Ren Suzuki wrote:
and the melting pot, if the majority of the population in the area is a certain type of Non-English speaking imagrants, the road signs and other stuff have to be changed to that Majorites Native Language.


Its plausible. I live in Tucson, Az and you wouldnt believe how many billboards and other types of signs that are in Spanish.
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Postby KiBa » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:25 pm

Sí. Se está convirtiendo en un problema verdadero. Lo odio cuando la gente no utiliza inglés.
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Re: The Future of the US seems kinda Bleek

Postby Gamer2 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:20 am

Geppetto wrote:
Ren Suzuki wrote:
and the melting pot, if the majority of the population in the area is a certain type of Non-English speaking imagrants, the road signs and other stuff have to be changed to that Majorites Native Language.


Its plausible. I live in Tucson, Az and you wouldnt believe how many billboards and other types of signs that are in Spanish.


Se whats what im talking about its a Silent Invasion
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Postby Nameless » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:50 am

I wasn't trying to imply by my post that I hate this country in any way. I see a lot of things wrong with it but I don't hate it. I'm just open to go anywhere really. I don't have to stay here just cause my parents did. Maybe I want to leave, maybe I will stay...heck I don't know where I'm going.
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