Maggie Thatcher dies

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Riku Rose » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:52 pm

Can't say I'm shocked but find people singing 'Ding Dong' and getting happy about it beyond stupid. Even if you didn't like the old girl she was hardly Hitler like some try to make out. It comes across as more stupid when you consider that most weren't even born back when she was in power. As much as I hate the likes of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown I'd tell any future children (which I don't plan to have) to shut up if they went on like some have about old Maggie.

My personal view on things is that she did more good then she did bad. Like QWERTY my parents and also my grandparents benefited immensely from the things she put in place. Before she was in power my family was made up of immigrants, travelers and South East Londoners. They all lived in flats when she came into power and when she left number 10 they all owned their own homes and my parents have gone on to own more since.

Then again everyone will just focus on the bad even if the good outweighs it since people love a good moan. If Maggie had been in charge of the country for the last 15 years we wouldn't be doing half of the shit people complain about now even if it did make her unpopular.

RIP Maggie

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby mue 26 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 pm

^ The reason we're in the mess we're in now is due to the road that she decided to take us down, though. Same thing with Regan in the US. Fair enough if you have a personal fancy for the iron lady or whatever, but claiming she did more good than bad is just crazy talk.

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I always thought you were American, Reebo, I take it your another limey then?

Huh? I didn't say anything about private schools? If you go to a comprehensive then you have an opportunity to learn, do you not?


Yeah, but since when did that mean equal education either? Your taking things at face value without really considering all the various external factors which have a huge effect. You obviously believe that we live in a true meritocracy and that "if you work hard you'll be successful, no matter what", but in reality it's not that simple. Take the state education system which you are mentioning, for example: Look at the way the system is set up. We have performance league tables for schools, sounds fair,right? Except no, all that ensures is that all the more well off and gifted children end up in the well performing secondary schools higher in the table (Through means of their parents cultural currency,and the fact that such schools only want children that will help them maintain their high position on the league table, not children who are currently struggling or have disabilities). Which mean that most working class children end up in local schools that tend to be the worst performing schools, and since those schools are not performing well, they get funding cut and become worse. And how can you honestly believe that a child from a poor family is on equal footing with a child from a more wealthy family, in terms of achieving academic success within school, Qwerty? It's not hard to realise that a child from a poorer family wont have access to the kinds of learning instruments that a more wealthy child has (books, equipment, tutors, ect, ect), not to mention the effect living in an impoverished environment has, and perhaps not even having the opportunity to have breakfast in the morning before school. These are just a few factors that can have huge implications on academic success.

And there are so many other factors too, like race (yes racism still very much exists within our education system), the way teaching is conducted, the style of language it's taught in, and the way success is even measured. It's a nice notion, but children are not all on an equal playing field in our education system, it's not meritocratic.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Sonikku » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:49 pm

mue 26 wrote: ^ The reason we're in the mess we're in now is due to the road that she decided to take us down, though. Same thing with Regan in the US.


Oddly enough despite all the things Reagan did to empower the few at the expense of the many, he still advocated for unions.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07AFUJKxKd4[/youtube]

If any of the many Republicans that put Reagan on a pedestal today ever heard one of their own defending unions in the same way Reagan had, (or calling for raising the debt ceiling on several occasions, or spending and exploding the deficit like crazy, or calling for tax hikes on multiple occasions as he had done) they would quickly find themselves not put on a pedestal, but strung up on a crucifix. It's telling of how far politics have shifted in just 30 years.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Jeff » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:46 pm

The US needs it's own Margaret Thatcher now as the UK needed her in 1979. Condolences to all of the British members here and to those others who admired her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6x ... ture=share
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Bluecast » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:34 pm

Jeff wrote: The US needs it's own Margaret Thatcher now as the UK needed her in 1979. Condolences to all of the British members here and to those others who admired her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6x ... ture=share

Pretty sure they are glad she is gone.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby mue 26 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:42 pm

Sonikku wrote:
mue 26 wrote: ^ The reason we're in the mess we're in now is due to the road that she decided to take us down, though. Same thing with Regan in the US.


[color=#FF80FF]Oddly enough despite all the things Reagan did to empower the few at the expense of the many, he still advocated for unions.


Ha, that's pretty funny. I never even knew that. So despite all the Bullshit of "Reganomics", at least he had that over our Iron Lady.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Who Really Cares? » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:52 am

mue 26 wrote: ^ The reason we're in the mess we're in now is due to the road that she decided to take us down, though.



Nothing to do with the last lot in power? :-k
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Feelers Rebo » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:07 am

Who Really Cares? wrote:Nothing to do with the last lot in power? :-k

The last Government was awful, but nobody who blames them for the current situation mentions that they were having to deal with problems caused by previous bodies, especially the conservatives. It's telling to me that we have the first Conservative (it's not really a coalition, if we're honest) government in a long time and everyone's becoming increasingly worse off apart from the bourgeois responsible for the current problems who don't have to suffer the consequences of their own actions (not all of these are even necessarily in Government, but they are all very strongly linked in with them-in fact I'd recommend watching the Keiser Report on Russia Today for a good perspective on who's responsible for what).
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby MiTT3NZ » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:44 am

In all honesty, I can understand why certain people like Thatcher. She did a lot of good for those she wanted to help. The sad thing is that she wanted the country on a whole to cater to one demograph with one mindset, and we live in a culturally diverse nation, one where life aspirations range from a whole bunch of shit from living off benefits to being a footballer, getting a 9-5 at ASDA to setting up a successful business, etc.

The way she was taking the country, only a handful in each area of each town/city would thrive, whilst the rest would starve. If her legacy prevailed, we'd be living in a complete dystopia right now. The old saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" would've been taken to the absolute extreme.

Yes, her policies would've been great for some, but for the rest? The majority? The people who make this country what it is? Not so much.

I do have a feeling though that if we didn't have a Prime Minister, and instead had a board of sorts, 3-10 people running the country, her presence on that would've bolstered the country ten-fold, her plans just needed regulating and refining to fuck, coz she was just too gung-ho for her own good, which proved to be her downfall, and consequently, our nation too.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby beedle » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:13 am

margaret thatcher was a horrible prime minister who destroyed livelihoods, communities and made lives hell for many people. I can totally and utterly understand people wanting to dance on her grave after the stuff some people went through.


however i wish her family the best

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:16 pm

Feelers Rebo wrote: I started to construct a counter-argument for that shitty post bit-by-bit, but I was overwhelmed by the futility of arguing against what is clearly an enormous verbal fart. Honestly, it's the most fetid thing I've read today, in many ways, and I just can't be bothered, since where do you even start?



This is why it's ALWAYS bad to talk about politics. I generally make a rule to stay out of it, since it's one of those topics where every single person has their own opinion, which they're convinced is right, and very rarely does any side of the argument give even the slightest inkling of any change in their opinion. Same as topics on abortion.

You in particular, Feelers Rebo, have been the most massive and intolerant (and intolerable) dickhead in this topic, however. Your kind are a growing part of "things wrong with this country" also, shouting and making a fuss to be sure that your opinion is most noticed, all sugar-coated in a "Holier than thou" ivory tower (false) sense of superiority.
Get a fucking grip of yourself, before it's too late.

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby QWERTY » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:32 pm

mue 26 wrote:"if you work hard you'll be successful, no matter what", but in reality it's not that simple.


No... no... it really is. Any line of work you're in, you can rise to the top if you're prepared to put the required effort in.

mue 26 wrote:Take the state education system which you are mentioning, for example: Look at the way the system is set up. We have performance league tables for schools, sounds fair,right? Except no, all that ensures is that all the more well off and gifted children end up in the well performing secondary schools higher in the table


When you say "gifted" that doesn't necessarily always mean naturally gifted though, right? Again, put the effort in and you too can be in that situation. As long as you work hard then the world is your oyster. It just depends on how much you want it.

mue 26 wrote:most working class children end up in local schools that tend to be the worst performing schools, and since those schools are not performing well, they get funding cut and become worse.


...and whose fault is that then? Their parents? Why are they poor? Laziness. It's a vicious circle. 9 times out of 10 the lazy breed the lazy. They raise their children in the same slack way that they prefer to live their lives. It's only when an individual has the inner impetus to break the chain that things can change.

mue 26 wrote:It's not hard to realise that a child from a poorer family wont have access to the kinds of learning instruments that a more wealthy child has (books, equipment, tutors, ect, ect), not to mention the effect living in an impoverished environment has, and perhaps not even having the opportunity to have breakfast in the morning before school.


A lot of these children suffer this way because their parents would rather spend what spare cash they have on fags, scratchcards and Kappa tracksuits. It's not everybody else's fault if that's the poor parental attitude they have towards providing for their offspring.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby ShenmueTree » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:37 pm

Don't believe that people should aspire to wishing others dead, but I can understand why people are glad she's not around anymore.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Feelers Rebo » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:15 pm

St. Elmo's Fire wrote:You in particular, Feelers Rebo, have been the most massive and intolerant (and intolerable) dickhead in this topic, however. Your kind are a growing part of "things wrong with this country" also, shouting and making a fuss to be sure that your opinion is most noticed, all sugar-coated in a "Holier than thou" ivory tower (false) sense of superiority.
Get a fucking grip of yourself, before it's too late.

I am in full agreement that I'm intolerant as far as this issue goes, and as far as conservatism and reactionism goes generally. As far as your assessment of my "kind" goes, to be honest, I think you're so full of absolute shit it's unbelievable. Where you've got this thing about a "holier than thou ivory tower", I have no idea, nor this bizarre shit about a sense of superiority. A sense of superiority is what drives cunts like Thatcher, however, my arguments throughout this topic have been merely driven by fervid disagreement and frustration with the kind of cretinous imbecile who might suggest such The Sun headlinesque drivel as "UNIONS HOLD COUNTRY AT RANSOM" or "UNIONS' GREED GET BETTER OF THEM" (and this is citing only one post), or a practically identical kind of fool who might suggest that if you work hard enough, you get what you deserve (which is honestly so untrue that it's not a statement worthy of debate - it ought merely be treated with the contempt it deserves). I would request that you "get a fucking grip before it's too late", because quite honestly, I don't feel safe living in a part of the world where there might be a voter with a twisted and clouded enough mindset as to support the likes of bourgeois cretins such as Thatcher and any likeminded individuals, as it's a horrifying thing to see a working class or a middle class man harbour views as self-destructive as your own. In fact, the political term for those kind of people is "useful idiots".
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby QWERTY » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:47 pm

Feelers Rebo wrote:
St. Elmo's Fire wrote:You in particular, Feelers Rebo, have been the most massive and intolerant (and intolerable) dickhead in this topic, however. Your kind are a growing part of "things wrong with this country" also, shouting and making a fuss to be sure that your opinion is most noticed, all sugar-coated in a "Holier than thou" ivory tower (false) sense of superiority.
Get a fucking grip of yourself, before it's too late.

I am in full agreement that I'm intolerant as far as this issue goes, and as far as conservatism and reactionism goes generally. As far as your assessment of my "kind" goes, to be honest, I think you're so full of absolute shit it's unbelievable. Where you've got this thing about a "holier than thou ivory tower", I have no idea, nor this bizarre shit about a sense of superiority. A sense of superiority is what drives cunts like Thatcher, however, my arguments throughout this topic have been merely driven by fervid disagreement and frustration with the kind of cretinous imbecile who might suggest such The Sun headlinesque drivel as "UNIONS HOLD COUNTRY AT RANSOM" or "UNIONS' GREED GET BETTER OF THEM" (and this is citing only one post), or a practically identical kind of fool who might suggest that if you work hard enough, you get what you deserve (which is honestly so untrue that it's not a statement worthy of debate - it ought merely be treated with the contempt it deserves). I would request that you "get a fucking grip before it's too late", because quite honestly, I don't feel safe living in a part of the world where there might be a voter with a twisted and clouded enough mindset as to support the likes of bourgeois cretins such as Thatcher and any likeminded individuals, as it's a horrifying thing to see a working class or a middle class man harbour views as self-destructive as your own. In fact, the political term for those kind of people is "useful idiots".


I don't think calling people "fools", "cretins", "imbeciles" and "idiots" is the way to argue your point tbh mate, it's pretty offensive considering we're only giving our political opinion. No need for the off-key remarks.
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