Maggie Thatcher dies

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby LawXiu » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:22 pm

I agree you can't blame them. Those areas of London haven't changed much. I lived in Walworth until 3 years ago and hated it. Shit hole.

I've never heard of people selling the houses though. Maybe Thatcher should have thought about the idea for a bit longer. But in hindsight it worked out well for my grandparents so I'm grateful.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Stocke » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:40 pm

Feelers Rebo wrote:By the sounds of it? What do you know about it? I think under the circumstances, the strikes then were totally justified


Families were without basic necessities like bread and trash went without collecting. Unions were going on strike mainly because they could. Whether or not it was because they actually deserved what they were striking for i couldn't say. I didn't live in the 1980's. That's why Margaret got so much backing. People were sick of the strikes, and the country needed change. You don't get elected 3 times for doing a terrible job. Some people obviously loved her, and it must of been in the majority if she was kept in power for so long.

But again I've also read a fair bit about what she did wrong, and a lot of people got the raw end of the deal with the politics she enforced. Again i wasn't alive when all this went down, so i don't have to nor want to take a side. I'm just going on what I've heard.

Feelers Rebo wrote: there need to be more perseverent strikes in the public sector today.


That i agree with. Whilst union's may have had too much power in the past, they deserve more than what they have now.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Feelers Rebo » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:45 pm

Stocke wrote:You don't get elected 3 times for doing a terrible job. Some people obviously loved her, and it must of been in the majority if she was kept in power for so long.

But you have to look at why people get elected. Most of the time it's not because you're actually doing a good job - it's because no-one's doing a good job, and the majority of voting plebs get a superficial understanding of policies, with no comprehension of any implications, and then vote for the "party of the moment", which is largely dictated by the media and larger corporations.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby south carmain » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:50 pm

George bush did get elected twice after all, and you can't say obama is exceptional either.

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby TEEPO™ » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:52 pm

Festivities around Britain in celebration of Thatcher's death:

Image

Image

Image

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkTzj0hiSng[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8qakI4mDII[/youtube]
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Stocke » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:01 pm

south carmain wrote: George bush did get elected twice after all, and you can't say obama is exceptional either.


Very good point. Although i think America is in better hands with Obama as opposed to Romney.

I always thought the media tended to be pretty negative too. With the serious issues Thatcher was creating for those up north, and the riots that took place during her time in power, you'd think she'd of been voted out straight away. She must of done some real good to counteract this.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby south carmain » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:03 pm

^well there was the falklands war, I'm not sure what else. maybe she took advantage of the troubles or something
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Stocke » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:10 pm

^ I was thinking that too, but that was an extremely controversial war. I'm not sure how much support there would of been for it at the time.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby south carmain » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:11 pm

Stocke wrote: ^ I was thinking that too, but that was an extremely controversial war. I'm not sure how much support there would of been for it at the time.

maybe for the argentinians, it made her government soar in popularity at the time she needed it the most

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher
and reducing the power and influence of trade unions. Thatcher's popularity during her first years in office waned amid recession and high unemployment, until economic recovery and the 1982 Falklands War brought a resurgence of support, resulting in her re-election in 1983.

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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Stocke » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:28 pm

^ so the idea of war was more popular at the time then? I've only heard the recent negatives on the news amongst the recent referendum vote, whether it was the right thing to do etc. Thanks for clearing that up South Carmain.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby LawXiu » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:30 pm

My Dad wad lucky back then, the army always kept him in Hong Kong and sometimes Singapore.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby south carmain » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 pm

Stocke wrote: ^ so the idea of war was more popular at the time then?

it wasn't really about the war itself but successfully liberating the falklands from the Argentinian dictatorship of the time. this wasn't like Iraq where we invaded some country in the middle east because America asked us to, this was a full on aggression against british citizens.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Feelers Rebo » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:48 pm

While we're on the topic of the Falklands, the ship I was trying to think of earlier was the Belgrano. I was also thinking of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:01 pm

She didn't shut down the mines, she was pushing for more modern equipment to make them more efficient, which would lower the price of coal to compete with foreign prices but lead to job losses. The unions fought against this. Many mines were forced to close because union pickets wouldn't allow maintenance crews in to keep the mines workable (pumping out water, shoring up tunnels etc.)

But yes, she also fully intended to ensure that Unions couldn't hold the rest of the country to ransom like they had in the 70s. Definitely the right thing to do, since Unions having the power to hold the rest of us to ransom (3 day weeks, not always having power, winter of discontent, etc) is just madness. Their greed and power got the better of them, just like it very nearly did in America with the Union workers on silly money holding a blade to the throat of the automakers. That situation also WILL have to end soon. Unions are a bit outdated by concept now anyway, IMO. The UK has, by and large, a pretty decent set of employment laws for its workers.

The UK was also well able to fuck itself up without political intervention, also. The cars that we made were crap compared to what the competition was selling.

Margaret Thatcher was one of the last old-school politicians, in the sense that she had her convictions and believed that the purpose of politics was to have the argument, to convince people about your way of thinking, even if you failed. She is disliked by many people, primarily those who can't see that what she did was necessary at the time, as unpleasant as it was for many. But it is arrant nonsense to assert that she didn't care, or that her personal image was what mattered to her.

If you define success in politics as changing the country you govern in accordance with your convictions, she's probably the single most successful peacetime Prime Minister this country has ever seen. And even if you don't, irrespective of your view on her policies, it's worth remembering that she was born a grocer's daughter and went on to study Chemistry at Oxford, qualify as a barrister, and become this country's first female PM (and the longest serving). All at a time when class and the 'gentleman's club' both had far more influence generally than they do now.
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Re: Maggie Thatcher dies

Postby Feelers Rebo » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:36 pm

I started to construct a counter-argument for that shitty post bit-by-bit, but I was overwhelmed by the futility of arguing against what is clearly an enormous verbal fart. Honestly, it's the most fetid thing I've read today, in many ways, and I just can't be bothered, since where do you even start?
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