Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Kenny » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:12 pm

Sonikku wrote: Anyone else think it's a little pretentious on Batman's part to choose to be this vigilante, refuse to use a gun due to a personal code, and then try to force his own "rules" on other vigilantes? I mean they're damn vigilantes. There isn't some rule book that binds them or something.

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Ugh, that was one of the many things that bothered me about TDKR.

But whatever. It's Christopher Nolan right? Nvm, it's perfect. 11/10. Will watch 'till the end of time.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Monkei » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:35 am

I love the Nolan movies, but they have their little flaws. For example I don't like the broken logic behind "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you either" (don't remember the exact wording). He pretty much set up a death trap for Ra's with the help of Gordon there.

OL wrote:Of course, there's also the scenes they've shown of Bruce in Metropolis while Superman is fighting Zod at the end of MoS. Apparently one of the buildings they demolish was a Wayne Enterprises building, and tons of people Bruce knows and employs get killed.

If I had to guess at a logical point for these scenes to be in there, I'd think the movie itself will start with the post-apocalyptic thing, probably a small voiceover by Batman talking about the alien trying to take over, something like that. Then once the mask comes off it transitions to Bruce in Metropolis at the end of MoS, showing you why he imagines these things, the buildings coming down like 9/11 and all that. Then a voiceover of him saying "I'm gonna put a boot in that suckas ass," before BOOM! black screen with the logo and title.
Then you probably see those shots of Superman saving people and performing heroic acts in slow motion, people looking up at him like a god, showing the audience that whatever Batman may think, Superman is on the straight and narrow. Then they probably move to the congressional hearing or whatever, Superman defending his actions...

Jesus, I could go on with putting things in sequence like that.
I think once that happens, they've probably shown too much. :lol:


Yeah, they probably have, like they always do. I really like the Bruce in Metropolis scene. Maybe you'll see him wake up after the mask comes off in the wasteland scene, and he right then and there (or pretty soon after that) starts to get in shape for the upcoming conflict. That small bit where he's pulling that huge tire or what it is could be from some kind of "the Batman is preparing" montage, which gets interrupted by bits of either the 'Bruce in Metropolis' flashback or Supes helping people around the world, or both. And yeah, the congressional hearing has to be somewhere there, too. Actually maybe that's where we'll see the "Supes is helping out worldwide" montage inbetween.
After that Clark might see Lois somewhere, then a Daily Planet scene with Perry, he goes to Gotham, meets Bruce and Lex, Bruce dances with Diana, Batman fights Superman, nobody dies, Lex is pissed, wakes up Doomsday, trinity teams up to defeat him, Lex loses his wig, Aquaman, Cyborg, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan cameo, the end.
I'm really curious how it'll actually turn out. :)
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Henry Spencer » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:18 am

What I find even funnier is when people complain that Burton's Batman murders people then go on to praise Nolan's Batman...Nolan's Batman was just as murderous, he kills Ra's (twice), kills Two Face, gets Catwoman to kill Bane (who was practically already dying anyway after Batman capped his breathing device) and kills Talia. That vs. Burton's Batman who kills The Joker, The Penguin, the big guy in the Circus crew with the bomb and throwing that random thug off the top of the clock tower...Nolan's Batman was just as bad.

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Monkei » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:04 am

Well, Burton's Batman killed that circus guy with a grin on his face, he was clearly a total psycho. Who liked to go nuts. :P
And Nolan's didn't really kill fake-Ra's, allthough you could argue that him setting everything on fire possibly lead to fake Ra's and some ninjas dying.. but I can live with that.
I'm kind of torn about Harvey's death.. maybe it was really the only chance to save little Gordon. Could surely have been solved a little better by the writers.
The fact that he gave Catwoman that ride doesn't mean he's responsible for her killing Bane. And Talia, well.. it was her or Gotham I guess, and that death specifically showed that Bruce's one rule can impossibly be obeyed all the time and even under the most extreme circumstances. He also retired after that, him having to kind of kill Talia might have been just another sign for his run as Batman being over.

So I agree that it's not flawless, like I said before, but I still feel that Burton failed to capture what makes Batman Batman, unlike Nolan. Nolan at least tried to somewhat justify those deaths and made to kill or not to kill and revenge vs. justice a big issue for Bruce.


Something else: Remember how in the first image of Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman the costume looked all brownish? A couple trailers and magazine covers later we know the actual colors are much more true to the source material. Same seems to go for Aquaman, according to recently leaked images of a slighty retarded looking BvS action figure:

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby OL » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:32 am

Weirdly, I've never been all that bothered by Batman causing deaths in any of the movies, to be honest. Plenty of people die by his actions in the comics anyway. It's rarely front-and-center, but it's kinda hard to take on entire criminal enterprises with bat-shaped shurikens and rubber knuckles and not have some casualties along the way. I always figured it'd be hard for him to develop the "holy shit scary!" reputation that he so desires to have among criminals if no one ever gets taken out along the way.
Granted, he shouldn't be directly snapping necks or anything so on-the-nose like that outside of the odd Elsewold-ish appearance, such as with the Joker in The Dark Knight Returns (that bomb example from Burton's movie is a little much), but guys falling off roofs and getting in car crashes and whatnot... eh.

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Kenny » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:21 pm

Oh, little my ass. There are tons of things I find wrong about pretty much all of those movies except for maybe Begins. The only problems I have with Begins is that it's pretty dull, Liam Neeson as Ra's, and Katie Holmes (or the character Rachel Dawes in general). But it's the only one that has a very consistent narrative, where it doesn't awkwardly break away in the middle of the story to focus on other characters just because they have to.

Not that Burton's version was perfect either. But I much prefer the visual style of Burton over Nolan though. And Elfman's sweeping symphonic score over Zimmer's two note one.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:14 am

There's a massive difference between using a pistol to shoot someone in the face and trying to stop someone from driving off with an armed nuke.

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Calshot » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:08 am

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Monkei » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:47 pm

Suicide Squad looks fun, Leto's Joker laugh sounds great, Wonder Woman looks good, both movies look very promising to me. I'm happy. Also this:

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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Kenny » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:36 pm

Not sure about that WW sneak peek, I need more.

But Suicide Squad? Ugh. So cringy.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby OL » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:22 pm

Wonder Woman is shaping up nicely it seems. I like what I'm seeing. They actually seem to be pulling off one of the most potentially-silly characters possible in a way that's believable and compelling. Looking good.

Suicide Squad, on the other hand... I will admit that, visually, it doesn't look quite as terrible as I was expecting. Action seems cool and all that. But it still ain't winning me over in any other areas. Same complaints as before: Will Smith should not be Deadshot (he can't play anything other than Will Smith. And Deadshot ain't black anyway), Margot Robbie is trying way too hard to come off crazy (she's reminding me of those pathetic kids back in highschool that insist that they aren't right in the head, because dude, insanity is cooool; "I hear voices, teehee!"), and the more I see of Leto's Joker, the less I like it (and I already hated it from the first time I saw it).
Plus, holy shit, they're really working hard to drill in the fact that it's about villains, huh?
The tagline is "Worst Heroes Ever," and twice they felt the need to remind us that they're "bad guys," in those exact words. First the military guy saying "they're bad guys, aren't they?" and then Margot Robbie saying "What? We're the bad guys."
Do they really think audiences are so stupid that they can't catch on if you say it once? Is the final movie going to be this dumbed-down, constantly reminding us of things we already know? It just makes it feel like the movie as a whole is trying too hard to be edgy. Like Kenny said: cringy.

I dunno, I think the only way this movie will manage to win me over is if that fan theory that Leto's Joker isn't the "real" Joker turns out to be true. It's a compelling idea, and it leaves room for a better Joker to eventually emerge. I'm sorry, I just can't see Leto having the necessary presence and weight to go toe-to-toe with Affleck's Batman. It just seems like a total mismatch, especially when this Batman is supposed to be a little older and more grizzled. He should have a Joker with a similarly-older persona, not this "tattooed, trying too hard to be 'street'" bullshit. If it turns out that Leto's Joker is actually a copycat (and a former Robin, no less), I can totally dig it, but otherwise?
Nuh uh.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Kenny » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:21 pm

They should just give Joker to Willem Dafoe.

At least an older version of the character.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Riku Rose » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:38 pm

The Wonder Woman trailer looks like it was made with the same filter as Man of Steel which just looks so drab and boring.

The Suicide Squad trailer looked a lot better then the first trailer and a more fun film overall but I think that was down to the editing. I've not really been following what the film is about but based on the trailer I know it's about the Suicide Squad and the Joker is there, not much else. Phantom Menace was able to make a good trailer and we all know how that turned out so the trailer for this hasn't suddenly won me over.

The main thing I'm interested in is how the DC universe pans out and how the films connect. I'm not convinced that Warner Bros planned to make a universe off the back of Man of Steel or it wouldn't have taken 3 years to do it. Man of Steel was met with mixed reception at best and Warner Bros have a sequel releasing in a couple of months and 2 more being made or finished. People could come out of Batman V Superman hating this version of Wonder Woman and they've already thrown $300 million at her own film. Marvel are at a point where they can plan 5 years ahead because if people come out of Doctor Strange hating it they have a sequel to a loved movie like Guardians ready which people will want too see even if they hated Doctor Strange.

I know DC really want a piece of Marvel's pie but I think taking a back step could have helped as they're locked into the Man of Steel universe for at least 5 years now.
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby Sonikku » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:56 am

Every time I see the Wonder Woman logo I think of the WWF logo. :-k
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Re: Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:03 am

I think the Suicide Squad looks fucking brilliant. It really drives home the hyper realism angle DC have been playin for over a decade now. A drab action movie world with out-of-place self-aware freaks. I'm also liking how Joker's looking more and more like a skull. Gives him his own identity. The previous Jokers (animated and 66 included) were very "of their time", inspired by their comic book counterparts and era that they were set in. Leto's looks to be in the same vein, and although I didn't like Scott Snyder's Joker, it makes sense to go with that. Besides, I can see echoes of Morrison's Joker in there too.

Wonder Woman looks like it could be good as well, though I'm slightly disappointed that Chris Pine is Steve Trevor and not Hal Jordan. Then again, I don't think he'd be able to pull off the whole "absolute bellend" angle, so it might be for the best. As a side note to it all though... that Justice League concept art's slightly disappointing solely based on the fact there's no Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter or Shazam. I genuinely would've picked any one of them, though I can understand it considering half of them will essentially be "new" characters.

Really lookin forward to the entire thing though.
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