Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion inside.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Bambi » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:40 pm

Caught the midnight showing, it's been a long day at work.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Peter » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:28 pm

I had a long day too after last night's viewing, followed by a long night of chatting about it, going to see it for the second time, chatting about it more.

It's now 3:30am AGAIN and I hava work in 5 hours. Star Wars can eat a fat dick right now as far as I'm concerned.

I will try and be fair, so say Sunday maybe? Unless people disagree? But this topic will soon be going spoiler free, so we can all talk about the damn thing! I'm not posting on my phone to arse about with spoiler tags and stuff.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Raithos » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:42 am

Change the thread title from Trailer #2 to Discussion so we can talk! It's their fault if they enter no mans land after that.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby csmakio » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:13 am

Saw the movie last night at 10:30 in 3D. I am very pleased with the movie overall, Abrams did a fantastic job with it. Spoilers incoming...

While I could see Solo dying from a mile away, I thought the fashion in which it happened was a little predictable and underwhelming. I also wish they would have showed Luke more but I thought it made a good ending and of course they setup for the next ones. But overall it was damn good, Rey is gonna fuck shit up in the next two!
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Raithos » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:59 am

I think he did a great job too. I tried my best to go in with expectations low, but I was smiling ear to ear as soon as the intro started lol.

Yeah I saw Solo's death coming too. A little anticlimatic the way it happened. The battle in the woods though! That alone was worth the price of admission. I I really hope they go more into what set this movie up, Luke starting up the Jedi Temple and how Ren destroyed it. I know a lot of people don't care about it, but it was great to see them actually use story lines from the EU. They changed names and adapted them to fit a new vision, but its clear where the Solo/Ren/Rey story line came from. I can't wait to see what they do with Episode VIII.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Peter » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:15 pm

Topic title has been changed. Fire away. Anyone in here reading this without seeing the movie, you do so at your own risk.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby csmakio » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:37 pm

Raithos wrote: I think he did a great job too. I tried my best to go in with expectations low, but I was smiling ear to ear as soon as the intro started lol.

Yeah I saw Solo's death coming too. A little anticlimatic the way it happened. The battle in the woods though! That alone was worth the price of admission. I I really hope they go more into what set this movie up, Luke starting up the Jedi Temple and how Ren destroyed it. I know a lot of people don't care about it, but it was great to see them actually use story lines from the EU. They changed names and adapted them to fit a new vision, but its clear where the Solo/Ren/Rey story line came from. I can't wait to see what they do with Episode VIII.


Couldn't agree more. The lightsaber battle was unreal. Anytime Finn lit that thing up I marked out, and when Rey picked it up....god damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: .

Do you think they are eventually going to set Rey up with a double-sided blade? I think they are going that way, just look at the staff she carried with her throughout this movie.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Sonikku » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:00 pm

Sonikku's thoughts

Wow, where to begin. To start, I think this movie has a TON of deleted content. Scenes from the trailers like the first one with ren walking a distance into the forest to ignite his lightsaber didn't even make it into the final product, instead conveyed with different shots in the third act. The scene in the first trailer where chewbacca "speaks" after han says "we're home" sees him silent at that part in the movie. The "Who are you?" "I'm no one" from the trailer wasn't heard by me in the movie. Those fallowing the development closely will note the Dagobah flashback scene with Luke was cut altogether. (Though we still have a figure for it in the toy line, most curious) In short, it feels like this easily could have been two movies but had a solid hour of content cut and reshot/shortened/consolidated to make it a leaner, brisker fast paced movie.

And then there's my take.

Villains. Kinda weak. The First Order general has little presence. He's no Tarkin. The jury is still out on supreme commander Snoke, it remains to be seen if he'll be able to reach the levels of Palpatine. But nothing really lept out at me. (In V you KNEW the Emperor meant business in his very first scene, even Vader didn't give him any crap and bent the knee even in the presence of just his hologram) I'm really disappointed with Captain Phasma. She's never seen doing anything badass. She's subdued with easy, makes the entire rebel assault possible by lowering the shields with little resistance and is then played up for laughs before being tossed down the garbage shoot. A poor use of an actor we know for bringing the pain in Game of Thrones. Maybe she'll fare better in VIII?

Then there's Kylo Ren. I REALLY wanted to like this guy, but god damn. What a wuss. The best thing I can say about him is he has much more depth than Darth Maul. Aside from that, he's no Vader. Even Finn managed to injure him with a lightsaber. And Finn got his ass kicked by a Stormtrooper with that thing! I don't know if that's more a knock to Kylo or props to competent Stormtroopers for once, but either way it felt really out of place. Being non sensitive with no force barrier, Kylo should have been able to snap his neck with a flick of the finger. Instead he manages a narrow edge against someone with no swordsmanship training. Disgraceful. I'm also intrigued that while we where shown the knights of ren in the trailers, you barely get a glimpse of them. I suppose it's foreshadowing for 8 when we'll surely get to see them in action. At least most of the villains will get another chance if nothing else, none of the core villains die in Force Awakens.

Then there's the heroes. Harison Ford seemed kind of tired in this one. It feels like he was kind of done with Star Wars. I applaud Abrams for being able to kill him off despite the inevitable fan backlash, though I wonder if he would have had the guts to do it on his own or if Ford forced his hand.

Rey is a great character and carries the movie. What a windfall for Daisy Ridely. Natalie Portman must be envious for the launching pad this woman will surely get from this movie, compared to the tar pit she was left with. But what bothers me is how she becomes super jedi so fast with no training. If she's kicking Kylo's whinny ass now completely untrained, than I can't even imagine the kind of ass whooping she has in store for him when Luke actually gets around to training her. Supreme Commander Snoke has his work cut out for him if he hopes to make Kylo into something vaguely resembling a credible threat. I'm also not entirely sure I quite understand her backstory, what with her being abandoned by her parents or something. I like to think she's Luke and Leia's love child and was dropped onto some backwater to stop things from getting awkward with Han. :lol:

Finn in contrast doesn't really work. He has second thoughts of killing for poorly explained reasons. I don't see how you have regret after a LIFETIME of conditioning. And what in the hell is up with this guy telling the rebels a bald faced lie about being able to shut down the shields? I can appreciate men thinking with their dick instead of their brain. But his seemingly casualness in telling the rebels whatever they want to hear so he can have a shot at rescuing Rey and with it a shot at some poon seems almost outright callous considering how high the stakes are and how a move like this for all practical purposes would have resulted in the deaths of billions of people.

And then there's Maz Kanata. Probably my favorite new character. All CGI, but such a massive improvement over Jar Jar it hurts. Despite being computer generated, I still find her character very warm and likable. Abrams did a masterful job in making this character seem genuine and I hope to see more of her in eight.
All things considered, I was entertained despite the unoriginality and play-it-safe attitude. I knew Abrams would deliver over all. This is like his third star wars movie. :lol:

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Raithos » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:30 pm

csmakio wrote:when Rey picked it up....god damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: .

Do you think they are eventually going to set Rey up with a double-sided blade? I think they are going that way, just look at the staff she carried with her throughout this movie.


I hope so! When she first lit the saber, oh man lol. That would be awesome to see on screen. double-sided staff vs the cross saber. Shes obviously very good with the staff, we saw her put it to work against the thugs trying to steal the droid.

Sonikku wrote:

Then there's Kylo Ren. I REALLY wanted to like this guy, but god damn. What a wuss. The best thing I can say about him is he has much more depth than Darth Maul. Aside from that, he's no Vader. Even Finn managed to injure him with a lightsaber. And Finn got his ass kicked by a Stormtrooper with that thing! I don't know if that's more a knock to Kylo or props to competent Stormtroopers for once, but either way it felt really out of place. Being non sensitive with no force barrier, Kylo should have been able to snap his neck with a flick of the finger. Instead he manages a narrow edge against someone with no swordsmanship training. Disgraceful. I'm also intrigued that while we where shown the knights of ren in the trailers, you barely get a glimpse of them. I suppose it's foreshadowing for 8 when we'll surely get to see them in action. At least most of the villains will get another chance if nothing else, none of the core villains die in Force Awakens.

I knew Abrams would deliver over all. This is like his third star wars movie. :lol:[/spoiler]


Yeah he's no Vader, but I think he's a really good villain. A little immature but his character will grow in the movies. I think what we see from him after this has the potential to be amazing. We see early in the movie just how powerful he actually is when using the force. Deflecting blaster bolts is one thing, but freezing energy like that mid air is something else. Its also implied that he killed all the other Jedi that Luke was training along side of him at the temple. During his battle with Fin and Rey in the woods, it seemed to me he was battling weapon to weapon and not using the force. I think that had to do with the fact he was far from 100% during the fight. Earlier we saw just how powerful Chewy's blaster really is. Kylo took a completely unguarded shot to the gut/ribs from Chewy minutes before fighting Fin and Rey, and we see him bleeding all over the snow because of it. Vader wasn't always the strong villain either. He got his ass handed to him twice by less powerful force users. First time losing an arm, the second time two legs and the other arm lol. We also see Kylo fully commit to the darkside, killing Han, where Vader couldn't.

I think Rey is a great character, definitely my favorite new one, but does anyone think they made her too powerful too quick? She goes from being completely powerless against Kylo when he captures her, to a bad-ass with absolutely no training at all. She probed a powerful force users mind, taught her self Jedi mind tricks, and fought with a saber like she had been doing it all her life. We already knew she could fight, but I figured that was going to be the kind of character transformation we would see only after she found and trained with Luke. Something we wouldn't see until Episode VIII. Doesn't take away from the movie to me, just something I was thinking about.

I also think the revelation of Ben Solo happened far too early in the trilogy, but that's just an extension of how they handled Han's death. I think they both could have been handled better. But man I can't wait to see it again.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Thief » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:34 pm

I should start out by saying I thoroughly enjoyed the movie -- it has flaws, but the positives far outweigh the negatives. Anyway, gunna be brief (kinda) because I need to see it again before I know how I truly feel but here are a few thoughts.

*I thought Adam Driver as Kilo Ren was one of the best things about the movie. Really interesting character and a great performance. Not at all "whiney" or "emo", but struggling with emotional issues -- fucking great character.

*I thought Rey was amazing (which seems to be common thought) and I really liked Finn as well. The scene where I knew the movie was going to be good was when Rey and Finn were fixing the Falcon. Their chemistry put a worried me at ease.

*Holy fucking SHIT the dogfights were amazing. Ever since I was a kid I was more interested in piloted ships and the space battles then I was with lightsabers and the jedis. This movie is the absolute best in that regard -- those scenes were amazing.

*The reunion scene between Han and Leia brought an actual tear to my eye. The two of them are my favorite characters, and one of my biggest worry was that Han and Leia were going to hate eachother, and that wasn't the case. There was one scene though with Leia and Finn that felt really weird (and bad tbh) but whatever. I also quite liked how Hans death was handled when I was watching it, even though it was obvious that it was going to happen there.

*All the practical effects were really cool, but they made the CG characters, Maz and Snoke, seem very out of place... not a big deal really.

*Some of the pacing was weird in the middle of the movie (around Maz's base/bar and the fighting thereafter -- also the plan to take down the "death star" or whatever it's called in this one).

*The movie itself stayed a little too close to the conventions of A New Hope for my liking, but enough was different, and it brought enough uniqueness of its own that it didn't really bother me too much.

*The most annoying thing to me was the R2D2 Deus Ex Machina moment. Like really -- what the fuck. :lol: Oh well.

There were other small nitpicks I had along the way as well, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything I wanted to remember -- I was just too busy having a good time. Quite enjoyed the movie and I think I'll pay to go see it again before it's out of the theatre.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:31 pm

First and fore most, the production value of this film was through the roof, absolute visual masterpiece and genuinely felt like a star wars movie that stays true to the original trilogy, unlike many aspects of the prequel trilogy, art direction felt like vintage star wars and this film had it down to a science, it was the most well done aspect of the film.

Story and characters were hit or miss, it really felt lacking in terms of jedi/sith and the force as there were no bad ass parts with masters of either factions. I thought the Light Saber battles were only ok, but simply because I knew they were newbies with them and they didnt seem as fluid and as well trained as in other star wars movies, but they genuinely werent. One of the big questions regarding Kylo Ren is what made him snap when training with luke? Sure Kylo threw a few tantrums in the movie and even questioned his own devotion to the dark side, so I felt he was kind of swinging in and out of where his allegences lie, and hes ultimately a loose cannon that we probably dont know what he will do next. Rey is the biggest mystery, practictly nothing was explained about her origin other than the vague and weird flash back/vision that made things confusing. I agree with Sonikku about Finn, but maybe he had been planning to defect for a while, but I cant exactly hate on the fact that a soldier was questioning his orders and actually did something about it, and ended up being pretty bad ass in the process, so props to that. I liked Hans end, he manned up to be Bens father and stuck his neck out for him and ultimately paid the ultimate price for him which I absolutely saw coming but I think it was important for Hans character that it went down the way it did. Also like how it gave us a glimpse of Han the smuggler, cant wait for the Han Solo spin off movie.

Anyone else notice that these new characters had alot of problems? Finn having to reject storm trooper/soldier conditioning (the scene where hes like IM IN CHARGE NOW really illustrated that he has some kinks to work out), him initially lying about who he was. Rey being lost in alot of what was going on and her not being sure what her part was in all of it and trying to decide and getting very emotional ALOT during the film, but she was one hard nosed and strong character, the best new character for sure. Kylo having alot of family problems and im guessing many traumatic experiences making him questions himself alot. Han and Leia's problems which might also be a part of Kylos etc etc etc, I think all these things gave the film more character depth and while it was elusive in ways, it was important.

This film borrows a good bit of story elements from the previous films: hiding top secret information in a droid (VII basically started off the exact same way as IV regarding that), huge planet destroying weapons but this time on steroids (different is good though at least), the space battles to destroy the new death star were so Ep IV and Ep VI, them having a covert mission to take down the shields on the new death star before the ship battles so they could target its weakness (borrowed straight from return of the jedi) etc etc etc. Im not sure if this helps of hurts the film, but they were there regardless.

Concerning Reys progression of force abilities through out the film, well this was obviously why the subtitle was called "The Force Awakens" it awoke in Rey. Now, how does she know about what kind of powers force wielders can use? How did she know to ask the storm strooper to remove the restraints? She caught the light saber from the snow and it flew right past kylo, really seemed like a bit of a stretch, but until we really know who Rey is, anything is possible. She also fought off Kylo's mental attacks and also read HIS mind, the force is unusually strong with her, maybe Luke didnt really bring balance to the force, or maybe it was only temporary?

Here is some more in depth questions and possible holes: the biggest Who is Rey? I also never heard the "Im no one" dialogue from the trailer, the flash backs made it seem like she may possibly be Lukes daughter, it showed her being left by someone on the planet as a child and her crying and being held back by someone as a ship flew off into the sky (must be whoever she has been waiting on to return on Jaku). Another one: How did they not know that R2 was carrying the other part of the map that led to Luke and why did R2 randomly awaken and conveinently provide the information they needed to move things right along? Also a big mystery: When they found luke, it was almost so cheesy I couldnt take it seriously, he was just standing at the top of a ravine in a jedi hood? I would have approached him and been like... when was the last time you ate? Where have you been staying... HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN STANDING THERE LIKE THAT? :lol:

I loved BB8 and he was a welcome addition to the droids, and provided something new and fresh for this film in the droid category, good stuff coming up with him.


All in all there was alot to like about the film and the pros vastly out weigh the cons, the film was better than the prequels already, and I am curious about where they will go with the next few films. It wasnt perfect but I feel like it was great in all the right ways that everyone wanted to see, and made it a great modern sci-fi film and abrams raised the bar for sci fi once again. Also it was kind of difficult to judge because the story is not finished yet, but I think there was good ground work layed to keep things interesting over the next films.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Axm » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:15 pm

Saw it. Loved it. But I still feel I'm riding on too big of a fanboy high to properly judge everything. So I'm going to see it again in 3D this time and post further about it. But I just wanna say, everything about the ships and fights were brilliant. As an action move it was amazing. The story, it was so much to digest. Crazy, but in a good way that propels the series past the usual Luke/Vader era while still retaining ALOT of that era at the same time. Dare I say it was a balanced approach yet though.
Damn MUST see it again.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Raithos » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:33 pm

Axm wrote:
Damn MUST see it again.

That's exactly how I feel lol
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:49 pm

I have too just come back from seeing it.

I'm pretty disappointed overall. My worst fears of having this be nothing but fanboy wankery all over the place came true when they did certain things like rehash the Death Star plot ONCE MORE and do thins like bring Luke's Lightsaber back. Not for any good reason whatsoever except for "HEY LOOK REMEMBER LUKE HAD A BLUE LIGHTSABER WELL HERE IT IS AGAIN".

Like, fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you.

This is exactly like Padme commending R2 for saving the ship. No one is supposed to give a fuck about a Droid unless you have some special attachment to it. A lightsaber doesn't have the level of importance they exaggerate it to have in this film. If they wanted Rilo Kiley to masturbate all over it, why not look for and get Vader's saber? Makes really just as much sense. Also, Luke lost that lightsaber when Vader cut off his hand in Cloud City. HOW THE SHIT DID THEY GET THAT BACK?!

Furthermore, it undermines the importance of the scene in the first place. Luke uses the saber to train with Obi-wan as a way to connect himself to his father and the force. Vader cutting off Luke's hand symbolizes the detachment and estrangement of their relationship. Luke making and wielding a green saber to cut Vader's hand off with later symbolizes Luke's completion of his Jedi training and able to stand independently from his lineage and fulfill his own destiny.

Bringing back the blue lightsaber basically says: hai guyz rmemb3r dat ol swordie thing? her itz back lol

Did they write this script with a crayon too?



Moving on, I'm with Sonikku on the villains. Captain Phasma was completely worthless. It was bad enough her design was just an uninspired silver spray painted on stormtrooper outfit. But she appears in like, what, three scenes? And then they joke about throwing her in the garbage compactor? Fucking weak.

Also, is the Empire 2.0 run by children or what? All the main villains seemed baby faced for some reason. The main leads being young, I get that. They're supposed to be, they're the new generation of heroes. But guys running the much bigger Death Star (which is run on clean energy because the First Order cares about the environment before totally decimating it)? It makes it more believable why they fuck up so much, I guess.


And yes, Rilo Kiley. Okay, first thing they got right about the character…Han and Leia's kid. Cool. Becomes closer to that of a Sith than a Jedi. Great. Has temper tantrums when given bad news? Uh, ok, we can work with that. Ends up causing some intentionally and unintentional hilarious scenes? Uh… Looks like an even pussier looking Andy Samberg when the mask comes off? Ok, wait a minute. Kills one of the most beloved and iconic characters in the Star Wars universe all of a sudden after everything else I just mentioned. ALRIGHT THAT'S NOT OKAY.

It just seemed that in order for the audience to hate the character, he had to kill Solo. I get it. Solo had to die. Ford hates that character. It doesn't surprise me they did it, though it does surprise me they did it this early. But man, couldn't they have done that in the next movie so there's a much more proper "pass the torch" moment where Rey inherits the Falcon?

But i'll get to that in a moment. Rilo Kiley killing Solo made me almost roll my eyes cause it was literally the only way to take that character seriously. Imagine if Darth Maul or Vader killed Solo. Would there have been childish temper tantrums or bitch-sad faced moments with them leading up to that? No. In fact, it would make you hate that character for the RIGHT reasons because they would've built him up to be this raging, fearful badass who finally broke the final straw.

Yes, he's a kid. Yes, he's his son. I'm sorry, that doesn't excuse any of that. Unfortunately by making him their son, it just opened up a can of all kinds of messed up. It's incredibly hard to do a twist like that and make it work. It's incredibly hard to make him a fearful adversary without making him look bratty (cause he's a kid). Ugh. It was just… no.

Even more so when Finn, a goddamn non-force sensitive stormtrooper who had no business wielding a lightsaber in the first place, can hold up a fight against you. And then you get your asskicked by someone who is force sensitive but hasn't been trained at all? I'm sorry, am I supposed to FEAR this guy? What a pussy little bitch. I hope he gets his head cut off and we get a PROPER villain in the next movie.


Back with Rey, I also liked that character. I really do. Unfortunately, her backstory felt incomplete. It's like there's this big revelation they're saving for later but it really made the character's growth stinted. You get to know everything about Luke just as the story begins in the first movie. You see him grow and get trained but he's nowhere near ready to fight Vader.

Rey on the other hand? Just tell her that the Force and Jedi exists and, boom…she can do pretty much ANYTHING a Jedi can. Mind control, fight the supposedly more skilled and trained Rilo Kiley. Yeah, everything. Ugh. All that and give her the Millennium Falcon too. Look, I'm not opposed to any of that. I love the fact there's a female Luke Skywalker now. But man, why did they have to write her character so BAD?


Honestly I can go on and on over how BB-8 is pretty much a poor man's R2D2, Finn was embarrassingly "try too hard" to be likable, and whoever the shit Oscar Issac was supposed to be.


The story was just BAD. BAD BAD BAD. I think Rey and almost anything dealing with her makes this better than the prequels by default. That character has huge potential.

But jesus christ, I'm glad JJ will never do another Star Wars film again. In fact, he should just… stay away from anything considered a beloved classic. He managed to make me forget the stupid Abrams inclusions like lenflares and cheesy closeups but in place of worse things. And Kasdan, you have an AWFUL lot to explain sir.


I'll be waiting for the Rey only version of this film.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:31 am

Damn Kenny, harsh review, but I kinda get where you are coming from, some of those factors dont grind my gears as much though.
My thoughts about the blue light saber: I dont think its the one that Luke lost when his hand was cut off from darth vader in the empire strikes back. I assumed it was just the last light saber he was using before he disappeared as if he gave it up, Luke did not have a light saber when it showed him and that may be why Rey was trying to give it to him at the very end. Wouldnt be surprised if the next movie has Rey trying to convince Luke to train her, the story seemed like after Kylo Ren went crazy after being taught by Luke, perhaps Luke started questioning whether or not he should be introducing people to the force, or he felt guilty and thats why he became a hermit (perhaps like yoda isolating himself on the dagobah system, kind of makes you wonder how obi wan knew where Yoda was when he tells luke to go the the dagobah system at the beginning of Empire).

The writing at some points did kind of feel like it was "lets make this happen to justify that happening so it works and we dont have to change it entirely" like having Kylo get shot by Chewy causing him to already be injured and getting his ass kicked at the end by Rey for example.
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