Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion inside.

[Raithos]

The blue saber that Luke uses to train was Anakin/Vader's first and foremost before it was ever Luke's. Its way more important than the red one Vader used after he was defeated by Obi-Wan. Its the saber Anakin first uses when he turns to the darkside and kills Mace Windu, followed by him killing all the Jedi in training at the temple. They mention in the movie Kylo destroyed what Luke setup at the ruins of the first Jedi Temple, which is exactly what Anakin did. Its the only object that links Anakin to Vader, the only thing consistent between when he was a Jedi and his transformation to Vader. It represents the struggle he faced between the light and darkside, the same struggle Kylo is facing. It also represents what will happen if nothing is done about Ren and the First Order. Pretty good reasoning to me.

[Kenny]

It sure was, but he's supposed to aspire to be Vader. Not Anakin. Plus wouldn't he get alot of discouragement to get anything that remotely was connected to Vader when he was a Jedi by his new overlords? It felt like a Nazi wanting the old dreidel that belonged to his father before he decided to become a self-hating Nazi.

And that's way beside the point anyway. It's only in there to give a "wink and a nod" to the audience. Take that out entirely and the movie doesn't really change. That's how worthless it is. Not only that, it brings up more questions than anything:

1. How did you get that lightsaber?
2. Why did you get that lightsaber?
3. Other than being owned by two of the most notable Jedi ever, what's so special about owning this lightsaber other than just symbolism? Or just hoarding family heirlooms? Why not dig up Obiwan's underwear or Yoda's staff? Live in Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's house?

Rey's visions could've been explained a different way. Rilo Kiley could've had something else to obsess over other than Vader's head. The OT never placed such great importance on anything like a lightsaber unless it was as simple as "here this was your father's, use it to train". Reintroducing it after showing it was clearly lost with no explanation just over complicates things needlessly.

Again, it was like giving a droid a celebration for doing its job when in the OT they're treated as tools that are needed and disposed of like second class citizens. If the lightsaber itself needed to be a plot point, it could've been one of Luke's later iterations he built and everyone THOUGHT it was the original one.


And AG, about the saber being one of Luke's later ones, I think they pretty much said it was the original blue one.

[AnimeGamer183]

The blue saber that Luke uses to train was Anakin/Vader's first and foremost before it was ever Luke's. Its way more important than the red one Vader used after he was defeated by Obi-Wan. Its the saber Anakin first uses when he turns to the darkside and kills Mace Windu, followed by him killing all the Jedi in training at the temple. They mention in the movie Kylo destroyed what Luke setup at the ruins of the first Jedi Temple, which is exactly what Anakin did. Its the only object that links Anakin to Vader, the only thing consistent between when he was a Jedi and his transformation to Vader. It represents the struggle he faced between the light and darkside, the same struggle Kylo is facing. It also represents what will happen if nothing is done about Ren and the First Order. Pretty good reasoning to me.

Hmmm, thats an interesting theory as well, also makes sense. The movie never really explained that light saber, its not the green one luke had at the end of Return of the Jedi. They dont say its anakins (whos it was originally) but that saber was lost anyway in Empire, so it cant be that one. Hopefully its explained in the next episode.

[Axm]

AG they really didn't have to explain it, you can tell instantly when you see it whose saber it was. And Han even asks Maz "I thought that was lost, how did you get it" and she said "That's a question for another time." No doubt about it, that's the first saber used by both Vader and Luke, which he lost in Empire.

Yeah Kenny, I think a lot of questions will be answered in the next one. Especially if we get to learn more about Maz and the back story on Kylo when he was still Ben Solo. At some point, they have to show him turning on Luke at the Jedi temple, to setup Lukes exile. Hopefully anyway. I don't think any of that will change your opinion or anything lol I'm just saying.

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[Kenny]

I'll have to say though the idea of the movie is really good.

Ben Solo was supposed to carry on the legacy of the Jedi, but upon being taken under Luke's wing in an ancient Jedi Temple he ends up destroying it and becoming more in line with his grandfather--Darth Vader.

While that failed, Rey comes into the picture. They're leaving alot of mystery about her, but I really want to believe she's Luke's daughter. I think they drop alot of hints or allusions between the two, but I'd be happy if that were the case. I really don't like the circumstances on how she came into this adventure, but her being his offspring would be really cool to me.

Therefore, Kylo Ren (i'll stop being sarcastic about the name now) and Rey have a stronger tie to one another. The inferior evil Solo/Organa child vs the stronger long lost Skywalker child. I'd totally would love to see that.

[Thief]

I pretty much disagree with you entirely Kenny, since all the reasons you hate it seem to be reasons why I like it. no bigs though I guess (no Wedge either )

I do think little nitpicks like "where did they get the lightsaber?!" are really dumb things to worry about though. Honestly, who cares? They have it. It's entirely pointless to have to explain shit like that. I don't understand people who focus so much on those things.

[Axm]

At first it really bothered me aswell. I thought how crazy they could actually find it..blah blah and it ran through my mind all night.

But then I realized, some things are just better off left to imagination. One of the worst things about the prequels is that they had to spell out every single damn detail and it failed at just letting things be.
If they do explain how it was found in the next one then fine, that would be nice. But if they dont, im sure we'll live.
This is a story about destiny after all and thats the most iconic object which has already passed from one generation to the next.

[AnimeGamer183]

Maybe we will get a Kylo Ren prequel spin off or something down the line? It almost seems like the luke/kylo and event leading up to that should have been the first part of this movie and the latter half of VII should have been the beginning of the next movie.

Are they trying to stick to a tilogy format again, or can we take say Reys story into 4 or more movies?

[Kenny]

It would be a nitpick, except it's one of the main plot devices. Therefore it begs an answer. It honestly doesn't have to be longwinded or complicated.

For instance imagine if after Finn and Rey find the Millennium Falcon, do the dumb stuff they did with it, and give it back to Han Solo. Then they ask "how did this get out of your hands" and he answers "that's a question for another time". Do you think that's a reasonable explanation? What if it was Padme's ship? Or Jar Jar happened to come back after a long period of absence? And they answer the same thing?

In short, I don't think it's acceptable. If you're going to bring back things, you have to have a good reason. If you can take it out and the plot works fine without it, then you don't really need it. Take out the fact Vader is Luke's father and the whole dynamic changes. Take out the lightsaber and you have far less questions to deal with. Far less to distract you with so you can just watch the movie.

Had it been just a minor detail, it still would've been bothersome but to a much lesser degree. Like, you don't need a ton of fanboy shit in these things. It needs to be its own stand alone adventure, not a big display of "hey remember the cool things from the originals? wow I wish we can create new fantastic things that are unique to our movie without having to retread on old ground constantly and pander to people. oh well. hey look R2D2!".

Honestly, I didn't scratch the surface of all the other things that were wrong on the big and small scale. It was just such a big mess of a story that didn't feel involving or exciting apart from seeing old familiar faces. And the old faces were exciting to see again because we remember the fantastic adventures they went on which were better written in their own respective entries. I mean, we went though something called a Starkiller. Bigger than the Death Star, they boast. And yet it felt like an afterthought.

If anything, it's marginally better than the prequels because the prequels were straight up abysmal. At least this film was better acted and had moments that were actually funny here and there. But that doesn't mean I want to pretend there aren't any flaws in this. Even the original movies had flaws but the journeys were so well-written and involving, it didn't matter. Here it matters a whole lot. Even more so than Disney thinks.

But that's okay, we can get a Kylo Ren trilogy afterwards to explain the holes because I can't get enough of his silly childish tantrums for 1/3 of this film. I need to have 6 hours of that.

[AnimeGamer183]

Yeah, Kylo definitely takes after anakin... and prequels anakin at that, ugh. Sometimes I wish they would just leave the mommy and daddy issues alone for the rest of star wars. I guess there really is plot point after plot point borrowed from the previous films, one thing I didnt want them to rely too heavy on, fan service for the sake of marketability. But it seemed as much as was borrowed, there was new and improved aspects as well, and I'd say it was honestly balanced between new and old BUT some of the selections of old stuff borrowed I did not like, they dont wanna tell too similar of a tale here, I feel like this movie could have been called Star Wars: Even More Family Problems lol but at least Finn and Rey's characters felt new and had depth even if not everything was explained about them.

Ok here is one thing I really was puzzled about, when they crash the tie fighter on jakku Finn wakes up and examines the wreckage and it sinks into the sand/explodes and I was wondering what the world happened as the scene ended shortly afterwards with no explanation. Did I miss something? Also the explanation of how the pilot got away from the crash when Finn and he meet up again was vague and didnt make sense to me.

[Kenny]

Eh, it kinda works here. At first I was apprehensive, I just wanted new characters doing new things. But the more I think about it, the more I like the fact Ken is Solo's and Leia's kid and also that Luke tried to train him but failed.

I think what really needed to happen with him is that he needed to be obsessed with becoming better than everyone. Even his grandfather. Vader even had to work alongside the Emperor, but to have Ken wanting to trump everyone and stand alone? And think that his own relatives are standing in his way thus having this incredible need to destroy them?

That would've made a much more badass villain. That's honestly scarier than Vader and the Emperor combined. Someone who's so self-destructive and unpredictable and came from the Skywalker family. Someone so unstable even Luke couldn't contain him and regretted helping him tap into his power, naively thinking he could be a Jedi. You could save the sentimental bullshit for later. You needed to REALLY establish this guy is bad news throughout and not miss a beat.

It also gives more importance to Rey. She's more in line with the Force than Ren is. She has the potential to become better than him, Luke, Vader, Obi-wan, and everyone else before her. That should piss Ren off.


As for the TIE Fighter thing, they did explain how Oscar Issac's character escaped but it was really quick and blown off immediately afterwards. I thought there was gonna be a giant sand creature scene slithering in the sand after it caved in like that. That would've been cool. But alot of these little surprisedsand secrets are all Abrams, I bet. He loves holding shit back and that's why I don't like his movies. He's too obsessed with holding plot details back than telling good stories (his stupid little Mystery Boxes) and it was incredibly evident here.

[Thief]

"It was just such a big mess of a story that didn't feel involving or exciting apart from seeing old familiar faces."
"it's marginally better than the prequels because the prequels were straight up abysmal."

These comments just make me scratch my head in confusion and make me wonder if you even saw the same movie I saw... or even like movies at all. No offense meant (or maybe some?), but these comments sound really really stupid to me.

[Kenny]

No, I do like movies. I just don't like really bad ones. Not that this was really bad, it just had so much stupid shit in it that I couldn't really enjoy it as much as I really wanted to. I know I like movies cause I saw the original trilogy a few days ago and I still really enjoyed them.

I'm still standing by my stance on the lightsaber. The Millennium Falcon needed to come back because it's Han's ship and you can't have Han without the Falcon. The reason why it was off his hands and in some remote desert planet was pretty sound. It made sense it would be stolen and sold off to several people in about a 30 year span.

Boom. Explained. Wasn't hard at all and it works. Perhaps it was a bit coincidental the main characters would stumble upon the legendary aircraft, especially if Rey knew of Han Solo. If she knew about him, she might've known of the Falcon and that "piece of garbage" lying around her backyard WAS the Falcon. But whatever. I'm more concerned they flew the damn thing without really knowing how to navigate it and nearly wrecked it in the process. Then Han doing the same thing later on (which contradicts him telling Lando "not a scratch" in Jedi, does he not give a shit about his own ship anymore?)

Yes, she needed a lightsaber. But it didn't really need to be the original one from ANH and Empire. And Luke threw his green one away in the end of Jedi after defeating Vader and confronting the Emperor, so there's no way she could've gotten that (and god help me if they do somehow get that one back). It easily could've been another ancient saber Luke forged or found in the Jedi Temple that Ren destroyed.

Perhaps you can justify it as saying it's passing on the heirloom. Kind of a moment where Obiwan passed it onto Luke. But the fact that Luke lost it in Empire and crafted a new one in Jedi just spoke volumes about Luke's transformation from padawan to full on Jedi Knight. It also made the films feel incredibly distinct and different from each other. No cheesy homages or references (aside from the Death Star II battle). They were truly stand alone adventures that progressed the story further.

Bringing it back still feels like fan service. Its like the dog dying and instead of getting over it, you dig it back up and frankenstein it back to life. Then pass it along to the new generation instead of moving on and getting a new dog for them. It's an item that was best kept in that moment in time. I still feel strongly about that.

[Thief]

Fair enough, obviously you like movies (sorry if I sounded like an ass), but I just wanted to emphasis how baffled I am to hear someone say that this movie was only marginally better than the prequels -- because that just seems like a really ridiculous statement to me. Truly I am sorry that you didn't enjoy it, even if I don't agree with your criticisms. However, I do think that everyone, myself included, needs a little more time to digest this movie before we can have a definitive feeling about it though.

[Axm]

Heres the thing right.. if Luke is going to play a larger role in the next movies then he'll need a light saber. Yes he could construct his own AGAIN, but it has so much more significance if he used the original Anakin one again to bring balance.
That or Rey really is related to Luke, she uses it and its still kept in the family.

Either way its a significant iconic device in the saga and although theirs no air tight explaination for it YET, somebody needs a light saber to use and I dont see any other Jedi around providing lost lightsabers.

Im not 100% sold on it though trust me, but do I think its cool to have? Absolutely. This is a Sci Fi, not a historical documentary, like I was saying before, somethings are better left to imagination for the sake of not being too anal like the prequels.