Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion inside.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:06 pm

Just wanna say I don't hate the movie. On a ten scale, I give it a solid 7. It's entertaining and fun in some parts despite me still felling overall disappointed with it. I just felt it could've been a whole lot better and there were some things I was really unhappy with. If i'm not praising the shit out of something, I'm complaining instead.

Honestly, there should be no insults or apologies about something like this. I like Jedi the best out of all the SW flicks and some people think it's the worst one in the OT, some even ranking it lower than Episode III and this one. People hate the Ewoks and shit. I can care less though, I like it just fine the way it is and nothing can change my mind on that.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Sonikku » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:33 pm

Thief wrote: Fair enough, obviously you like movies (sorry if I sounded like an ass), but I just wanted to emphasis how baffled I am to hear someone say that this movie was only marginally better than the prequels -- because that just seems like a really ridiculous statement to me. Truly I am sorry that you didn't enjoy it, even if I don't agree with your criticisms. However, I do think that everyone, myself included, needs a little more time to digest this movie before we can have a definitive feeling about it though.


Ironically enough I find the prequels had the best narrative, though they're still poorer as far as entertaining movies is concerned. With 3 especially you have themes of intelligent people being taken in by a populist to the point of becoming complicit in the surrendering of their own liberty and freedom for so called government protection. "This is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." The death of democracy was the real tragedy of the prequels, not Anakin's fall. He is really just a symptom of a larger scale corruption. (and everything that happened to the Republic still would have happened even had he never been born) The corruption from within was a far stronger narrative then the more traditional good guys versus bad guys of the OT. (if only it was told by a better story teller) In comparison I find Force Awakens more entertaining, but its plot is a fluff piece in comparison.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby TwiceFriedRice » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:59 am

I mean...it was better than the prequels.

A typical JJ Abrams work. Filled with a lot of great, and plenty of 'meh'.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Thief » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:04 am

Kenny wrote:I like Jedi the best out of all the SW flicks and some people think it's the worst one in the OT, some even ranking it lower than Episode III and this one. People hate the Ewoks and shit.

Well, at least we can agree there -- I like Jedi the best as well. :beerchug:
Kenny wrote: I can care less though, I like it just fine the way it is and nothing can change my mind on that.

As soon as they get that dumb musical number out of Jabba's palace I'd be happy to agree :P

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Monkei » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:39 am

I saw it Friday night, and I'm in love with it. To get the negative stuff out of the way first: I think the plot-structural nods to past movies might have been a little too much, the movie was almost a remake of A New Hope. And it could have been a bit longer, give some plot elements more room to breathe.

Other than that, wow. Pretty great. Loved Kylo as a villain, loved Rey and Finn. Need to see it again.

About coincidences and seemingly unlikely stuff happening in the plot (Luke's blue lightsaber was mentioned): It's Star Wars. It's about destiny. The previous trilogies have been all about force-guided "coincidences" and unlikely encounters, too. Nothing of that needs much more explanation than "the force works in mysterious ways", really.

So what do you guys think - who's daughter is Rey? How much more stuff from the other trilogies will repeat itself? Are there twins again, is Rey Kylo Ren's twin sister? The sound of their names alone seems to imply a connection. Han - Ben, Leia - Rey. Or is she Luke's offspring?
And will Finn be a jedi? My guess would be yes, most likely. There was no scene that really indicated he was NOT force sensitive. Everything about him screams "future jedi" actually. Man, so many questions. I want episodes VIII amd IX right now.

Kenny wrote:Even more so when Finn, a goddamn non-force sensitive stormtrooper


Why would you assume something like that? You do not recognize Finn holding that lightsaber, twice, and trying to hold his ground against Kylo as foreshadowing? Aren't you into writing scripts yourself? What do you think Finn is gonna be in the rest of the trilogy? A guy with a blaster?
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Sonikku » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:04 pm

Monkei wrote: Are there twins again, is Rey Kylo Ren's twin sister? The sound of their names alone seems to imply a connection. Han - Ben,
Leia - Rey. Or is she Luke's offspring?


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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Riku Rose » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:59 pm

Raithos wrote: Change the thread title from Trailer #2 to Discussion so we can talk! It's their fault if they enter no mans land after that.


That's why I just name every topic after the title of the game/film/tv show. Seems stupid to have a topic for every trailer. Just call the topic Uncharted 4 and not Uncharted 4 Announced for PS4 Coming 2016.

As for the movie I really enjoyed it.

There was certain parts like the lightsaber and Han finding the Millennium Falcon being very coincidental but this is Star Wars where everyone important is related or keeps running into each other. The main problem people seem to have is that certain things didn't get explained but since this was announced we've known it will be 3 films for this story so I'll wait until Episode IX to get angry at that if they pull a Lost. This did just feel like the first act of something.

People also seem pissed at how quick Rey became handy with a lightsaber but Luke was hardly put through any training. He deflects some bullets off that robot in New Hope and hangs out with Yoda for a day. When he goes back in Jedi the way he talks to Yoda doesn't make it sound like he went back between Empire and Jedi. My theory after seeing the film was that Anakin and Luke's lightsaber awoke the force within her.

This is how I would now rank them:
Empire > Jedi > Force Awakens > New Hope > Sith > Phantom Menace > Clone Wars
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:27 pm

Monkei wrote:
Kenny wrote:Even more so when Finn, a goddamn non-force sensitive stormtrooper


Why would you assume something like that? You do not recognize Finn holding that lightsaber, twice, and trying to hold his ground against Kylo as foreshadowing? Aren't you into writing scripts yourself? What do you think Finn is gonna be in the rest of the trilogy? A guy with a blaster?


Probably because they show Rey's ascension with the force more blatantly and Finn is just shown as a guy clumsily waving a lightsaber around with no indication he might be one with the Force. He also fucked up both times.

Sorry, the "don't you write scripts too" argument doesn't really work as all writers are different. Especially since with me, I concern myself with gradual progression when it comes to character development. You might as well have Han be the one wielding the lightsaber and fighting his own son, turning to the audience and saying "I was a Jedi all along, Leia taught me the ways of the Force". Not every character needs to be a Sith or Jedi. The beauty about Star Wars is that every main character has a very specific role to fulfill which makes them distinct and unique from one another.

C-3PO is an interpreter. Chewbacca is a wingman. R2D2 is a swiss-army knife of tricks. Han is a rouge smuggler. Luke is a farmboy turned Jedi Knight. Leia is a warrior princess for the rebellion.

Make them all lightsaber wielding Jedi knights and suddenly they all become less special, which is why Luke is the only one out of those. Even Leia who is force sensitive doesn't become a Jedi in the OT (or even VII). But back with Finn, the guy has training to be a stormtrooper (in sanitation, no less...). Presumably there are no lightsabers to get, but he might have melee training as indicated in one of the fights later when he fends off a trooper with a melee weapon.

All that being said, what makes him qualified to hold his own against a Sith-in-Training? Rey only makes more sense because she's more attuned with the Force and she's shown (very briefly) to hold her own with a staff. She faltered a bit on her first encounter, but after that magical awakening, she managed to come back strong.

But that very detail not only makes the battle implausible, but it also makes Kylo Ren out to be a joke. If Finn started to fight a little and then gets his ass kicked in mere seconds, it would've been more believable. And if they wanted to indicate Finn might also be force sensitive, they had plenty of opportunity to indicate it. Doing it later will seem like an afterthought.

Riku Rose wrote:People also seem pissed at how quick Rey became handy with a lightsaber but Luke was hardly put through any training. He deflects some bullets off that robot in New Hope and hangs out with Yoda for a day. When he goes back in Jedi the way he talks to Yoda doesn't make it sound like he went back between Empire and Jedi. My theory after seeing the film was that Anakin and Luke's lightsaber awoke the force within her.


Luke had Obi-wan training him on the Falcon and telling him how to harness the power of the force. Granted, it was just mostly him saying "just trust your feelings" alot but it was still something. Luke had the power already and just needed to be shown how to tap into it by a master.

Yoda training him for a day was enough to hold his own for the fight against Vader, but Vader still kicked his ass. Some time passes between Empire and Jedi, though it's not known how much has, so it's possible Luke learned more on his own if not with Yoda. If he knew enough to build his own lightsaber and to be considered a Jedi Knight, then that's adequate enough. It really shows a gradual progression and with Episode VII leading into VIII, I expect him to be even more powerful now.

Rey instantly learning after touching a lightsaber when earlier in the same day she thought the Jedi and Luke was a myth? Lazy writing.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Thief » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:31 pm

Yeah, gotta say that just because someone writes scripts, professionally or not, doesn't mean they know a thing about good scriptwriting or not -- and neither is scriptwriting a requirement for someone to comment on scripts themselves. For all I know, ya'll could be shitty writers (not that it even matters with commentary).
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:57 pm

It's largely irrelevant anyway. My opinion matters as much as a fan, a non-fan, you, them, and everyone else under the sun. Great directors have admitted to loving shitty movies. People like different things.

I can only explain how I feel and why. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby OL » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:54 am

Kenny wrote:Han is a rouge smuggler.


Image

"Heavens no officer, I had no idea these things were illegal!"
The Empire had some weird laws.

Anyway, haven't seen it yet, but a friend described it to me as basically a remake of A New Hope. And reading stuff in here, that sounds about right.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby TwiceFriedRice » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:20 am

My main problems with this movie can all be boiled down to the fact that the last quarter of the movie was clearly rushed.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:25 am

That's the second time a spelling mistake bit me in the ass.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Thief » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:15 am

TwiceFriedRice wrote: My main problems with this movie can all be boiled down to the fact that the last quarter of the movie was clearly rushed.


I felt like the last quarter of the movie was the strongest part -- pretty much everything from Han's death onwards. Not much was shown with the "death star" and whatever, but the climax of the movie was the action between Rey Finn and Kylo Ren and not everything else, so I didn't expect focus to be on that or much else going on. Never personally thought it felt all that rushed. Pretty much the whole movie is VERY face-paced though, which I guess I could see as feeling rushed, but I don't agree -- at least I don't agree based on merely one viewing. Really need to watch it again, if only to further ground how I actually feel about the movie.

Anyway, if anything, I felt the weakest part was the pacing in the middle third of the movie (around the part where they're talking to Maz Kanada) and that whole action sequence thereafter. Something just felt off about it while I was watching, although I can't quite place it currently.

OL wrote:Anyway, haven't seen it yet, but a friend described it to me as basically a remake of A New Hope. And reading stuff in here, that sounds about right.


I think calling it a remake is a bit of an unfair assessment really -- because it really does have way too much original content to be considered a remake, in my opinion, this isn't a Ghostbusters 2 here we're talking about. It is heavily inspired by A New Hope though. Honestly, to me Star Wars has always been about the characters and their relations, not the plot in the background, and this excels leaps in bounds in that department (better than A New Hope honestly -- gotta remember that Star Wars wasn't all that "deep" until Empire). This movie is A+ production value, A+ characters and acting, and A+ dialogue. You're bound to have a good time OL, just don't take Star Wars too seriously and go enjoy a very fun movie.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby OL » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:31 am

Kenny wrote: That's the second time a spelling mistake bit me in the ass.

Did it really bite you in the ass... or did it just create something amazing? :lol:
I think every time I watch Star Wars now, I'm gonna be picturing Han loading up the Falcon with Estée Lauder hoping to god that nobody sees him.
You've added extra layers to the Star Wars universe.


Thief wrote:You're bound to have a good time OL, just don't take Star Wars too seriously and go enjoy a very fun movie.

Nah, don't get me wrong, I fully expect it to be a generally fun flick. Seeing it tomorrow I think.
I'm definitely not one to take Star Wars all too seriously. I did knowingly spoil everything by looking in this topic after all.
Not that a "remake" (I know, not a literal one) of A New Hope sounds like a bad thing anyway; if any of the old trilogy could use a bit of dusting off, it's that one. Recycling some plot elements is no big deal. This is just the first in a long line of proposed Star Wars movies anyway.

Oh, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but here's one thing I actually look forward to seeing with this flick; a black protagonist in a big-budget popcorn movie whose whole persona doesn't revolve around the fact that he's black.
That might sound slightly racist (I'm not sure really), but if you think about it, the grand majority of black movie or tv heroes we get just have to address the color of their skin at some point, and I've never really understood that; with all the black friends I've had, co-workers I've had, and people I've met, the topic pretty much never even comes up. And why should it? We get the lesson pounded in to our brains while we're growing up that color doesn't matter, yet most of the time popular media seems to want to tell us it defines us to some degree.
So I genuinely think it's a pretty great thing that now kids can actually have a black movie hero to look up to who isn't in any way held up by the issue of race relations. I think that's a really healthy thing for kids of all races to be seeing. This is Star Wars, and color just doesn't matter. That's a great thing in my eyes.
Hopefully it holds up like that (no clue what modern filmmakers will do with Star Wars, of course).

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