Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion inside.

[Sonikku]

Am I the only one that thinks Finn was extremely callous to the rebels and an entire planet full of people by lying when he claimed he knew how to disable the Starkiller's shields? All so the rebels would waste their best shot getting someone there so he could have a chance to rescue his waifu instead? The things men do for even a slim shot at some poon.

[TwiceFriedRice]

It's weird, everyone seems to think Rey is one of the bright spots of the movie, that she's a really good character and all that. But honestly, not having seen the full movie yet, I keep feeling like she's gonna strike me with a big ol' case of "meh" when I finally do. Just based on the trailers, she just came off like a same-old stoic warrior woman type of character. Leading up to release, she was literally the one part of the trailers that looked totally uninteresting to me. Finn is an interesting character conceptually (former Stormtrooper and all), Poe is motherfucking Oscar Isaac (so I can't not like him)... but Rey just looked boring.
I think she's the one part that's really gonna have to impress me.

And ironically Finn is the least developed of the main characters. You're completely wrong about Rey, and I have no idea how you gathered that she was Laura Croft from the trailers.

[Kenny]

Finn could've been a great character. And I really wanted to like him cause he was really funny in some parts.

But yeah, lying about knowing how to disable the Starkiller just to score some snatch? Wielding a lightsaber for a prolong period of time without confirming he's force sensitive? Defecting from the First Order after a life long period of conditioning to be a Trooper because he suddenly decided "killing is wrong"?

John Boyega had the unfortunate luck of playing a character that was blatantly unbalanced and poorly written. Han Solo was a goofball, but he was a competent goofball. He didn't blatantly put others at risk for financial gain. He helped even when he didn't need to. That's a real hero. And that's why it's a damn shame he's dead. Finn doesn't feel like a suitable replacement.

Supposedly Rian Johnson's Episode VIII script is amazing. Considering how crappy Looper ended up and meh (to me at least) Brick is, i'm not holding my breath. His Breaking Bad directed episodes are awesome though. So the guy knows how to tell a good story with other people's material. He just doesn't know how to write one of his own. Here's hoping i'm wrong on this one.

[Sonikku]

Ya know, after seeing the movie a second time, I can't help but laugh at our earlier discussion about cannon/non-cannon regarding the EU. I absolutely loved the movie, but most of its plot was derived from the books. Han/Leia's son Jacen Solo (Ben Solo) going to the darkside as Darth Caedus (Kylo Ren, although not a Sith yet) and turning against his family, a relative of his Jaina Solo (Rey, who is most likely Luke's, it was his sister in the books) confronting, and most likely being setup to stop him, a Sith thought to be dead - Snoke (who is most likely Darth Plagueis, new book even hints at it) not dead and clearly a threat, the new Starkiller base draws inspiration from the Sun Crusher that used a solar systems sun to destroy it. In the books Jacen Solo's unofficial apprentice was Luke's son Ben Skywalker. So having Kylo's real name be Ben Solo is also a nod to Legacy of the Force. I mean the list just goes on from there. Not a bad thing at all, I just think its really cool. With me having read nearly every book, and being someone who was pissed that they through it all out, its just nice to see they actually used material from the EU. Granted they have changed and adapted aspects to fit their needs, but a fan can see it from a mile away. I think it actually makes me appreciate it the movie even more. Can't wait for Episode VIII.

[Sonikku]

INB4 Palpatine clones.

[Kenny]

They might as well make a Han clone while they're at it.

[joka]

I'm not a die hard star wars fan but I really enjoyed the film.

The one thing that bugged me straight after though was Kylo revealing his face so early on... It would've made much more of an impact if they had saved it for the scene with Hans I reckon.

Kylo was definitely my favourite character- Rey and Finn just kinda wandered into the film (literally) and didn't really get fleshed out.

Also another bug was the force powers seems inconsistent within both the film itself and within the overall movie series.

Like Kylo's force powers seem to supersede Vader's in some respects (stopping the lazer/beam) but then a bit lame when it came to the lightsaber dueling when even rookies can put up a fight against him.

Similar with Rey- she seemed massively overpowered in the things she could just do pretty much instantly.

I'm not a die hard fan like I said though so could be wrong.

[AnimeGamer183]

Anyone know who the old guy was at the very beginning of the movie the officer that was with Poe? Supposedly they said he was an old character or something, but I have no idea who he was.

[TwiceFriedRice]

Finn could've been a great character. And I really wanted to like him cause he was really funny in some parts.

But yeah, lying about knowing how to disable the Starkiller just to score some snatch? Wielding a lightsaber for a prolong period of time without confirming he's force sensitive? Defecting from the First Order after a life long period of conditioning to be a Trooper because he suddenly decided "killing is wrong"?

John Boyega had the unfortunate luck of playing a character that was blatantly unbalanced and poorly written. Han Solo was a goofball, but he was a competent goofball. He didn't blatantly put others at risk for financial gain. He helped even when he didn't need to. That's a real hero. And that's why it's a damn shame he's dead. Finn doesn't feel like a suitable replacement.

Supposedly Rian Johnson's Episode VIII script is amazing. Considering how crappy Looper ended up and meh (to me at least) Brick is, i'm not holding my breath. His Breaking Bad directed episodes are awesome though. So the guy knows how to tell a good story with other people's material. He just doesn't know how to write one of his own. Here's hoping i'm wrong on this one.

To be fair, Finn stated that was the first time he was asked to kill.

[TwiceFriedRice]

They might as well make a Han clone while they're at it.

Han Solo should Tricia Helfer the shit out of Kylo Ren in the next movie, minus the sex. It would be the light side taking the form of a guilty conscience to pull him back.

My theory: Snoke is Luke. He left a map leading to him as a test. The one who found him first was worthy of becoming a true Sith Lord. But, it wasn't Ren, it was Rey.

Yeah, that will never happen.

[Kenny]

To be fair, Finn stated that was the first time he was asked to kill.

It's already bad enough Troopers can't aim for the life of them. Now we're to believe some of them can be chickenshit too?

The First Order has me shaking in my boots.

The one thing that bugged me straight after though was Kylo revealing his face so early on... It would've made much more of an impact if they had saved it for the scene with Hans I reckon.

That's a great point. Especially have Han say something like "you're not Vader" in order to coax him to take it off.

Like Kylo's force powers seem to supersede Vader's in some respects (stopping the lazer/beam) but then a bit lame when it came to the lightsaber dueling when even rookies can put up a fight against him.

Well, to be fair, dueling and force powers are pretty separate. Being one with the Force doesn't mean you know how to be an insanely good fighter. You train how to be good with a sword. I can buy that Ken is not THAT proficient with the lightsaber yet.

Ren should've force-held Finn and slashed his back and did the same once more to Rey, only for Rey to break free with her own Force powers showing Ren that his powers aren't strong enough before they get to fighting. That would've been great for a couple of reasons:

1. It gives Ren a reason to hate Rey and to question his own Force abilities. His objective is to be the strongest one with the Force and anyone he knows that can come close to that (Luke, Leia, ect) must be destroyed. The fact that Rey comes along and outdoes him should piss him off.

2. It shows Rey's transformation come full circle. It would've helped if she had some indication there was something within her but never did anything, had "training" in the form of reading up ancient texts or something, have Ren overpower her the first time (which is a great scene), then finally taps into her Force abilities by the time the battle comes along.

3. It prevents Ren from doing anything against her Force related as that one act would've made it abundantly clear she's more powerful.

They might as well make a Han clone while they're at it.

Han Solo should Tricia Helfer the shit out of Kylo Ren in the next movie, minus the sex. It would be the light side taking the form of a guilty conscience to pull him back.

My theory: Snoke is Luke. He left a map leading to him as a test. The one who found him first was worthy of becoming a true Sith Lord. But, it wasn't Ren, it was Rey.

Yeah, that will never happen.

Perhaps. Ford is coming back in the next one, so we're either seeing that or flashback scenes.

[Sonikku]

Snoke is Luke? Don't believe that for a second. He would never wipe out five planets and threaten a sixth one his sister was on just to facilitate a "test".

[TwiceFriedRice]

Snoke is Luke? Don't believe that for a second. He would never wipe out five planets and threaten a sixth one his sister was on just to facilitate a "test".

Sure, he would if Palpatine turned him to the dark side. Luke went dark in ROTJ remember? He never came back (because you can't according to Yoda) although we are meant to think he did. That was the original plan according to Kasdan. Lucas nixed that though to sell toys.

[Sonikku]

Clearly you can turn away from the darkside if Vader and Ventress are any indication. As for the whole "Now I'm Vader" screwball ending with Luke, it was stupid. He didn't turn to the dark side in canon.

[Axm]

To be fair, Finn stated that was the first time he was asked to kill.

It's already bad enough Troopers can't aim for the life of them. Now we're to believe some of them can be chickenshit too?

He says he worked in sanitation.
Despite the armor and the training, he was previously about as far removed from battle as could be. You think a soldier in the real world wouldn't be capable of figuring out right from wrong if he was pulled from a quiet, non-violent job and suddenly asked to kill innocent people? Seems plenty plausible to me. He even mentions remembering his family, so it's not like he was completely raised from birth to be a killing machine.
The only question then is why more Stromtroopers don't feel the same way. That's the only hole relating to his motivations that I can find. Hard to imagine he's the only guy who feels like he's been dealt a shitty hand.

Anyway, just saw it, and despite liking it, I do of course have issues with it, just the same as anyone. I'm not gonna question motivations or act like things happened for no reason and demand explanations; it seems silly to complain of unexplained details when they clearly have a multi-part story in the works (so obviously, explanations incoming; worry about the lightsaber later), and it also seems silly to criticize reckless actions in a goddamn space adventure movie. Yeah, maybe it's cheap to just say "that's how the genre is" and leave it at that, but come on. This is the same series where a farmboy follows an old man onto a planet-exploding battlestation because "Yay, adventure!" Then he proceeds to destroy the fucker despite having no previous X-Wing training whatsoever. Not to mention the cold-as-hell career criminal smuggler who totally fucking shot first. He comes back to save everyone because... I dunno, he's a good person or something? Basically, nothing about this series is going to be bulletproof, so to me, it's just one of those things where you let it slide and enjoy the ride.

Anyway, if there's one truly weak spot in the movie, it's Kylo Ren. What a lame excuse for a villain. And honestly, it's not even necessarily the way he's written or anything; I place the blame solely on Adam Driver. Or rather, the casting of Adam Driver. The guy has no screen presence whatsoever once he takes that mask off. Once that happens, he really does just feel like a whiny little kid. Seriously, an actor with better screen presence could have fixed the role and made it great. Oscar Isaac's character, for example, isn't necessarily written all that great, but Isaac is such a great actor with such great presence that he makes it good.
Hell, maybe Oscar Isaac should have played Kylo Ren. Would have turned that shit right around.
I'm just disappointed that we're no doubt going to have to see this character again with the same actor. Unfortunate, that.

As for Rey, I'm still not sure what the fuss is about. She's just kinda... there? Whatserface Ridley at least has some screen presence and all, and it's not like she's unlikable or anything. Glad I was wrong about the warrior woman thing. But I just don't really get it when someone says something to the extent that she's "the one really good thing to come out of the movie."
Eh?
She's... okay. Nothing wrong with her. But then... I didn't find anything particularly exciting or compelling about her either. Nothing negative, I just don't get why everyone's in love with her.
On the other side of casting, say what you will about nitpicky details; John Boyega is great as Finn. He's got just the right kind of energy and presence. He and Oscar Isaac are perfect in the movie because I could honestly picture their characters standing alongside the characters in the original trilogy and fitting right in. And that's just what this movie needed: a return to the air of the OT. It's not perfect, but it's a good start in that direction.