Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion inside.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Sonikku » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:49 pm

Thief wrote:
Sonikku wrote:
Kenny wrote: Well it's like I said, if they introduce that Finn is a Jedi later it'll seem like an afterthought and make you question even MORE things like why couldn't Ken or Snoke sniff out that person.

It'll just make things worse and you might as well make C-3PO a Jedi Knight too. Cause at that point, what's the difference? And I was among those who laughed (literally, people were laughing in the theater) when Adam Driver took off his mask.

At a minimum, they should have waited until Han Solo confronted him. But preferably only after he had spent the entire film being seemingly badass.

404 Badassery not found.


I don't know why everyone needs him to be complete "badass" to be a good character. It would have made him way worse honestly. Everyone would be saying, "look at the fucking Vader copycat -- this movie is just like A New Hope" (as if people weren't saying that already). Kylo Ren is such a good character as he is. Honestly, not badass enough seems like a complaint I would have made when I was seven.


My point basically is that it would be more revealing if Kylo seemed all brutal and evil, ominous and in control while wearing the mask throughout the movie, but once he takes it off finally and he's looking his dad in the face you see him for the first time how torn and vulnerable he was underneath it.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Thief » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:54 pm

fair enough point, I think my comment was mainly directed at comments I've heard in general buzzing around the web -- not necessarily that specific one. So my bad, it just kinda reminded me of it. But you're right, the comment you posted didn't really support any notion of needing him to be a complete badass or whatever. sorry sorry :oops:
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Raithos » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:35 pm

sand4fish wrote:
Raithos wrote: He saw him not firing his weapon on the town like he ordered.


The obvious view, but not my interpretation of the scene. I might be wrong of course.


I meant that Kylo sensed him right then because he felt Finns feelings on what was going on around him, which made him stop and not shoot. Not necessarily the lack of action being why Kylo noticed him. Since feelings are felt pretty strongly in the force, he was probably the only anomaly out of all the troopers to Kylo. Maybe he did sense him like you say, and recognized his presence like he did Rey. They could all end of being tied together somehow. That whole scene is one of the best in the movie.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby sand4fish » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:12 pm

Raithos wrote: That whole scene is one of the best in the movie.


One of my favorite scenes as well. Two people of the new generation looking at each other's eyes one last time before following opposite paths in life.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:13 pm

Are we talking about Finn or Ren with that Badassery?

Cause Finn more or less as a character is alright aside from the inconsistencies. Ren needed to be more imposing though. Vader was great cause he was cool, calm, and collective even when force-chocking people (or literally chocking them one armed). That's a villain to be afraid of. Palpatine was the same.

With Ren, I liked that he was more aggressive and sort of reckless even with the force. Like a kid with a new toy and showing it off. He was less disciplined in that sense because Vader was well-trained before he was Vader. He had two masters, like Ren, but even his beef with Obiwan had a respectful elegance to it when he confronted him years later. He was cool that way. Ren is disrespectful to both Luke and Snoke. That's actually a good way to go about it.

Problem is he seemed too bitchy under the mask. Like that scene where he waves his lightsaber destroying the terminal deck thingie after getting bad news. I mean, it was a cool scene and all but it made me go "what a fucking little kid". I think it was the way he was waving it around. If he made slower, broader strokes it would've made his anger look more terrifying. But that and the scene where he finds out Rey escaped...they were played for laughs. I thought that was terrible for the character. Imagine if they did those kind of scenes with Vader. Would you take him seriously afterwards if he was waving his lightsaber around, destroying stuff, uttering "NAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOO" each and every time?

It was a lost opportunity to wait until he confronted Han to take off the mask, show off his vulnerability for a bit, then offing him. Showing how imposing and terrifying he is with the mask on and showing that vulnerability with it off then would've made him a much better character. He's already different from Vader, these changes would've cemented him as a force to be reckoned with.

Instead he's like...eh.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Sonikku » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:38 pm

As an aside, I wish they had included Jar Jar in this movie.

...no seriously. Hear me out! In the scene where the Starkiller is obliterating all the planets, instead of showing that woman on the Republic capital world being destroyed they should have shown a Gungan looking up to see the scorching red beam of death rapidly approaching, Jar Jar running haplessly in the other direction with mere moments to comprehend his fiery fate.

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby OL » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:36 pm

^^There would be cheering in the theaters, and a single tear would slowly roll down George Lucas's cheek.

@Thief: I agree that the idea of Kylo Ren as a character is a good one. The angry kid acting like a big man, but with obvious vulnerabilities underneath it all. That shit is great, and I'd applaud them for doing a primary villain like that...
...if not for the fact that they cast Adam Driver, who's just such a boring actor that none of it mattered. No, he didn't necessarily have to look like a badass under the mask or anything, but they probably should have at least cast someone who's capable of making more than one facial expression. He looks like some bored guy you could see working at the supermarket. And even aside from that, as an actor, he literally did nothing to make the character unique and interesting on his end. They could have cast anyone and it would have been either the same or better. That's not a good thing. He added exactly nothing to the role that was written.
With such expressive, lively actors as John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, and Oscar Isaac playing the new leads, a guy like Adam Driver just has no place in a movie -- much less a series of movies -- like this.
The character is fine, I just really, really didn't like the casting.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Thief » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:55 pm

In that case we're just going to have to agree to disagree then, because I really like Adam Driver and thought his performance was really good.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby TwiceFriedRice » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:12 am

Yeah, Driver is a weird dude, but he's a really good actor. He did great in the scene with Han.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Axm » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:36 am

Snope is probably Plagueis.

Stick with this guy as he isnt a great speaker, but the theory is solid.

phpBB [video]


So is the obvious music.

phpBB [video]


"The Force Awakens" has a duel meaning now.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Sonikku » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:01 am

Rey's identity accidentally leaked by Disney.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_0pFTKmsfs
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:24 pm

If that's the videogame, he says "curses" not "cousins" as people have been claiming.

Still, I really do want it to be revealed its Rey Skywalker.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby OL » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:51 pm

I read a good one yesterday that said sure, Rey is probably Luke's daughter, but beyond that she's also probably related to Obi-Wan somehow. Maybe he had a daughter, maybe Luke met her and they had a little girl.
The evidence being that
a.) Rey handles her lightsaber a bit similar to the way Alec Guinness did in ANH (I thought she seemed kind of awkward with it when that scene came up, but if it was intentionally mimicking Alec Guinness, then it makes some sense),
b.) Apparently it's Ewan McGreggor's voice that pulls her into that little "dream sequence" she has (and if her relation is only to Luke, then why would they bother doing that?),
c.) The way she climbs the walls in the Starkiller base (is that the official name?) is totally Obi-Wan, through and through.
I think there may have been other points, but that was the stuff that stuck out to me. It's all just guessing of course, but I thought it was pretty compelling evidence. Seems reasonable that a mix of Skywalker and Kenobi blood could make her some kind of super-Jedi (hence all of her convenient plot-abilities). Guess we'll see.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Kenny » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:52 pm

He must've had her when he was old af judging by the age difference.

Think it's more possible it's Luke's rather than Obiwan's. It was a combination of McGreggor's voice and Guinesses' using older archival footage where he says the word "afraid". It's really cool stuff.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion ins

Postby Monkei » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:00 pm

^ You can also hear the voices of Yoda and Luke in that sequence though.

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