Star Wars: The Force Awakens-Full SPOILER discussion inside.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Thief » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:04 am

The books I read (thrawn) were not particularly well-written -- they were pretty mediocre fantasy. I don't think I can agree at all that they were ever better than the original movie trilogy. I'm not going to argue with you much about the quality of the Star Wars books, since clearly you're a fan, and it's pointless to tell a fan that the thing they love is bad and expect them to suddenly change their opinion, but I will assert that it is by no means hypocritical to like one thing and to dislike another.

EDIT:
I should say that the books work fine as pulp-fiction adventure, but as interesting literature (or as an attempt to get some sort of emotional response out of me) they fall incredibly flat. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from these books, but the original movies were much more than just pulp-adventure. I don't want to make it sound like I think it's bad to like them, and perhaps I'm being too harsh, but that said, I do think they are bad -- as in that they don't meet my particular standard of quality or whatever.

in the end I don't really care what people like, but just that they've chosen to like it through their own choice and with good reason (rather than just to follow some trend or because they feel as thought they are expected to like it).
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby shredingskin » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:12 am

Not really a fan of star wars. I thought episode 6,1 and 2 sucked balls. And the other 3 were kinda meh.

I need to know all the extended universe bullshit to enjoy it ??

If no darth vader and no yoda this will suck.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Three Blades » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:18 am

That's alright, all I'm saying is that you can pick any bad thing in those books and find something equally bad in any of the movies. Star Wars has stupid shit in it no matter which movie/book you pick, we can all agree on that.

I need to know all the extended universe bullshit to enjoy it ??

No because Disney made it non-canon, but even if the new movie had taken place immediately after the latest book, it doesn't mean you would have needed to read any of the books to understand it. There are many good points in the series where one can start reading without having read the previous books. If anything, the last chronological book, Crucible, seemed like it was setting the stage for Episode 7 :???:
Instead, the series was flat-out cancelled, and the new Disney books are setting the stage for TFA. It's a completely new (and, so far, vastly more shallow and inferior) continuity.

As for Yoda and Vader, they're dead, so there's nothing they could really do about that... Iin fact, I really hope TFA doesn't try to shoehorn Vader in it just because he's popular... like with a clone or something. It wouldn't even make sense for Anakin to wear the armor if it was a clone sine his body wouldn't have been burned :???:
Anakin hated that armor since the moment he first woke up in it until the day that he died.
So even a clone wouldn't wear it just to look cool.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Raithos » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:21 am

Thief, the trilogy you read were some of the worse books in the EU, to me anyway. Fate of the Jedi, Legacy of the Jedi and several other short series and one offs were actually very well written. Not all are "fantasy trash novels." There are some, that many fans agree, are better than the movies.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Three Blades » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:45 am

Fate of the Jedi, Legacy of the Jedi and several other short series and one offs were actually very well written.

Damn right.
Abeloth was one of the coolest and most unique Star Wars villains. Before news broke that Disney was rebooting, my fantasy was that she would be the main antagonist of the new trilogy, and that it would feature a scene where Luke and Leia team up in a lightsaber battle against her. If only...


Anyway, for a one-off novel, I would recommend 2012's Darth Plagueis.
I generally dislike prequel-era stories (I tried, but could never get into the Clone Wars show). But this book actually gives so much depth to that era that it made me see the prequels in a new light and actually kinda appreciate them a whole lot more.

It's about Palpatine's relationship to his master Darth Plagueis, and clarifies many events that took place before, during and around episodes 1 and 2. It's written by James Luceno, one of the best Star Wars writters. That guy makes so many subtle references to other stories by mentioning names/planets/events that happened in other books, the movies, or the cartoons. While reading his books, I can't help but silently nod my head, smirk, and think, "man, this is a guy who knows his Star Wars".

Kenobi (2013) was also really, really good. It's basically a Star Wars western, revolving around Ben Kenobi's early days on Tatooine, and how he accidentally got involved into a feud between a small desert community and some Tuskens.

I generally tend to prefer the books that are part of a series and actually progress the main storyline, but if you're looking to pick up one book that stands alone, I recommend one of those two. Even casual fans can easily get into them since they don't require that you have read any other books, only that you've seen the movies.

Well, my intention was not to turn this into a book thread, but merely to state my lack of interest in Episode 7 and my reasons for that.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:59 am

The new movie takes nothing away from the EU content, thats absolutely ridiculous, those books will be just as enjoyable as they were when they first came out. There are branching paths and story lines and different books by different authors explaining what happened after Ep 6, by now star wars fans should be used to this. There is no reason to hate on this new movie just because they wanted to do something new and different and make an entertaining movie. Can you not enjoy the books for what they are and also enjoy the new movie for what it is without drawing up one with some superiority complex? You are going into this all wrong man.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Three Blades » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:04 am

The new movie takes nothing away from the EU content, thats absolutely ridiculous, those books will be just as enjoyable as they were when they first came out.


The problem was that the book series was still ongoing, we had a Jaina trilogy coming up, and also a series about Ben Skywalker as an adult was teased in Fate of the Jedi, when Luke had a vision of his son all grown up. At some point they were also going to reveal more about the secret society that protects Allana (HUGE mystery), and probably show Jaina becoming Empress of the Fel empire, as mentioned in the comics that take place 100+ years after.
Not to mention how Luke died, another huge mystery for fans.

There are branching paths and story lines and different books by different authors explaining what happened after Ep 6, by now star wars fans should be used to this.

The main book series that's been coming out since the 90s all took place in one timeline though.
My main point is that, although there was no reason for the new movies not to take place in that continuity, the pill would have been much easier to swallow for hardcore fans if the book series had also been allowed to continue, to do its own thing, independant of the movies. Comics do this all the time, do they not? How many version of Spiderman, Thor, Ironman, etc, do we have? Why not let the Star Wars book series continue as well?

Instead, Disney cancelled it and replaced it with its new continuity, meaning that we will never get resolution on many things.

All I'm saying is, these are the reasons why I don't like this new direction (plus, the fact that Disney's books have been vastly inferior when compared to the original continuity, so I have no reasons to think that Episode 7 will be any different.)
If you guys like it, cool, hope you enjoy it. Just thought I'd throw in another point of view into it.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Raithos » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:05 pm

AG, the problem isn't that what we have is any less enjoyable. Its the fact that Disney put an end to things already in progress, decades in the making, that fans have been looking forward too. Things we may never see an end to now. Cliffhangers and questions 100 times bigger than you were left with at the end of Trails in the Sky FC, that you can't just go online and read about since its already out in Japan :D. Clearly I have zero problem with the movie, it looks amazing. And I think if you ignore the fact that they trashed our beloved EU, the sale to Disney is the best thing that could of happened to SW. Not everyone will agree, but its the truth.

But yet that's my biggest disappointment too. I've been reading these books since I was a kid, 90% of them were "cannon" so to speak, and all followed the same timeline of events set forth by the movies AND the other books. Most authors took into account every other series or novel that has been written, and just added to it. Forging one of the most unique, complex universes available in any type of media today. I am 100% OK with Disney wanting to ignore the books, and do their own thing. Not what I would prefer, yet its totally understandable. I mean honestly, there are way to many things for them to take into account and keep things in order. But to scrap it all and put and end to upcoming books is ridiculous. The things that were hinted at, especially Lukes visions of Ben grown up, would have been AMAZING.

Three Blades wrote:Damn right.
Abeloth was one of the coolest and most unique Star Wars villains.


Hell yeah man. That was one of the most enjoyable series I ever read.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby OL » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:44 pm

Three Blades wrote:
There are branching paths and story lines and different books by different authors explaining what happened after Ep 6, by now star wars fans should be used to this.

The main book series that's been coming out since the 90s all took place in one timeline though.


...which was all basically fan-fiction anyway. If you want to point the finger at the new movie and act like it has no right to act as sequel to the original films, there's really no reason the extended universe should be treated any different. None of it is technically by the original creator; it's all a collection of side-stories written by Star Wars dorks. Fans. Hence "fan-fiction."

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Kenny » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:43 pm

It's not a reboot, it's a continuation.

Disney in all likelihood will milk the series to death, but that's what Lucas was asking for when he signed over the rights to them. And I hardly know anything about those ET books except that they made terrible decisions like clone Palpatine and have Fett escape from the sarlacc pit (get over it, he's dead and he died like a bitch).

Mara Jade and the story of how Boba Fett got Solo to Jabba are the only things that make sense to put into canon.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Raithos » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:05 pm

OL wrote:None of it is technically by the original creator; it's all a collection of side-stories written by Star Wars dorks. Fans. Hence "fan-fiction."

Fan fiction is stuff you write on the internet. These books were licensed by Lucas Arts, and acknowledged by George Lucas. He even wrote things himself taking into account events from the EU. Its not like if you or I wrote a fan story for AC or Persona and posted in a message board. This is a whole different ball game. Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV series even took into account things wrote in these supposed fan fiction novels. And that was official canon. Not sure where AG's branching path/storyline comment stems from. Have you or AG read any of them? Like more than 2 or 3 single books, if any? I get the feeling you guys don't know that much about it by the comments you are making. Not everything in them was gold, but that's the same as anything else.

I do agree though, if anyone thinks the movie has no right to be a sequel that's just absurd. But that's not what I got from reading other peoples comments. I do just skim through sometimes though. I just think it sucks Disney put a stop to the completion of the story lines decades in the making. Stuff we might never get answers too.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Himuro » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:21 pm

This is like, if Shenmue III the Gang Edition was considered canon to the Shenmue universe despite having nothing to do with the original creators, and then Shenmue III gets announced, and Yu is like,"yeah, any media related to Shenmue III besides the official Shenmue III is totally not canon and we are not going to pay attention to them or consider them as a part of our universe. That should be obvious but..."

and drops mic.

And then dude goes on Shenmue Dojo and yells at everyone for being dumb for not caring about his stupid fan fiction video that no one with a brain considered canon to begin with.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby punkmanced » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:34 pm

Who cares what Lucas considers canon?!
The only true canon, as the fans recognize, is the Original Trilogy. From there on you can build your own SW timeline as you see fit.

The prequels are mostly crap (though Ep 3 is a guilty pleasure…even with the shitty acting, and stupid story turns). Some of the books were good, and some of the video games great (ie the force unleashed, which made me a SW fan once again).

I’ll definitely give Ep 7 its fair chance. It’s what any fan would do.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby punkmanced » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:24 pm

Himuro wrote: This is like, if Shenmue III the Gang Edition was considered canon to the Shenmue universe despite having nothing to do with the original creators, and then Shenmue III gets announced, and Yu is like,"yeah, any media related to Shenmue III besides the official Shenmue III is totally not canon and we are not going to pay attention to them or consider them as a part of our universe. That should be obvious but..."

and drops mic.


That literally makes zero sense.
Those books were internationally commercialized with Lucas’ approval. It’s not some fan project.

Anyway, like I said, canon is ultimately meaningless; Nothing prevents SW fans from picking and choosing their own timeline based on what they like. I’ll agree that it’s nothing worth arguing about in the first place.

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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens Trailer #2

Postby Himuro » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:27 pm

Released under Lucas' permission doesn't mean a thing.
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