UK General Election

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Re: UK General Election

Postby Henry Spencer » Fri May 08, 2015 2:45 pm

Scottish National Party is in the name though, isn't it? Unless they would completely rename themselves and want to alienate their voters in Scotland? Which wouldn't make any sense for them to do. If you mean that you like Nicola Sturgeon, sure, she's the best leader they've ever had by a country mile, but if you want to keep the "United Kingdom" still around, then SNP are as anti-United Kingdom as it gets. Now that SNP have so many seats in Parliament it will be interesting to see how they weigh in on policies going through Parliament.

The Election pretty much turned into independence vs "United Kingdom" henceforth the reason why people voted Conservatives since they didn't want to see a Labour-SNP coalition, which is what the media were fear mongering about.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby Peter » Fri May 08, 2015 2:46 pm

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I'm surprised politics has struck quite a nerve with you guys. Don't mean it in a bad way either. It's good to see some emotional discussing of something, that's all.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby mue 26 » Fri May 08, 2015 3:32 pm

Henry Spencer wrote: Scottish National Party is in the name though, isn't it? Unless they would completely rename themselves and want to alienate their voters in Scotland? Which wouldn't make any sense for them to do. If you mean that you like Nicola Sturgeon, sure, she's the best leader they've ever had by a country mile, but if you want to keep the "United Kingdom" still around, then SNP are as anti-United Kingdom as it gets. Now that SNP have so many seats in Parliament it will be interesting to see how they weigh in on policies going through Parliament.

The Election pretty much turned into independence vs "United Kingdom" henceforth the reason why people voted Conservatives since they didn't want to see a Labour-SNP coalition, which is what the media were fear mongering about.


As I said, I quite liked the SNP's policies, as did Scotland. It wasn't really about nationalism or independence, plenty of people who voted no in the referendum voted for the SNP yesterday. Because they liked their policies. Nicola Sturgeon didn't mention a second independence referendum once. As you said all the fear mongering about a Labour SNP coalition breaking up the union, was just that, fear mongering.

But yeah I know it probably won't happen, I was just saying it would be nice if they did aim a little higher.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby Henry Spencer » Fri May 08, 2015 4:11 pm

Okay. I'd definitely had voted for them if i was living in Scotland. ;-)

Peter wrote: I don't mean to sound ignorant, but I'm surprised politics has struck quite a nerve with you guys. Don't mean it in a bad way either. It's good to see some emotional discussing of something, that's all.


I don't like most politicians. The UK is now being run by Tories. It's really like a cauldron full of shit now with the corns being taken out (the Lib Dems) and the poop being melted to a high temperature, ready to boil over, bubbling to the surface and splashing all over the place. Shit stains everywhere. On the other hand, I liken the Labour party to a cauldron of piss that got flushed down the loo. The "UK" (HAHAHAHAHA, United Kingdom, good one), it's still a mess, just now with more acceleration behind it. Can't wait to see what kind of mess the country will be in, in five years and the same old two parties get voted in, again. Cos people in this part of the world are thick like that. Ah well, life goes on.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby Jibby » Fri May 08, 2015 6:21 pm

If the election were next year I would have been able to vote :(
Although it still wouldn't have changed the dreadful results in both Scotland and the UK as a whole.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby south carmain » Fri May 08, 2015 6:43 pm

mue 26 wrote:
Henry Spencer wrote: Scottish National Party is in the name though, isn't it? Unless they would completely rename themselves and want to alienate their voters in Scotland? Which wouldn't make any sense for them to do. If you mean that you like Nicola Sturgeon, sure, she's the best leader they've ever had by a country mile, but if you want to keep the "United Kingdom" still around, then SNP are as anti-United Kingdom as it gets. Now that SNP have so many seats in Parliament it will be interesting to see how they weigh in on policies going through Parliament.

The Election pretty much turned into independence vs "United Kingdom" henceforth the reason why people voted Conservatives since they didn't want to see a Labour-SNP coalition, which is what the media were fear mongering about.


As I said, I quite liked the SNP's policies, as did Scotland. It wasn't really about nationalism or independence, plenty of people who voted no in the referendum voted for the SNP yesterday. Because they liked their policies. Nicola Sturgeon didn't mention a second independence referendum once. As you said all the fear mongering about a Labour SNP coalition breaking up the union, was just that, fear mongering.

But yeah I know it probably won't happen, I was just saying it would be nice if they did aim a little higher.

A lot of people here who voted no for independence did vote snp with independence as one of their reasons though because the British government went back on the promises they made (or at least are heavily stalling) to get them to vote no. It's really labours fault that Scotland has turned so away from it so much.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby MiTT3NZ » Sat May 09, 2015 11:37 am

Shenmuedabest wrote:Keep running your mouth and you'll eventually convince yourself that that bollocks you're peddling is fact.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ca ... s-with-nhs


Going through the cited sources now. Half of em seem to be conjecture/speculation, the other half bang on. This is one of the other many reasons I won't vote. When it comes down to it, none of us actually know the political structure well enough to make a truly informed decision on who would be best to run the country. Even the least worst.

The problem is that, whilst I would like to see a number of policies implemented (every party has at least three or four guddens, even UKIP), we don't actually know how viable they are, and what will suffer as a consequence. A lot of that is down to the fact that we're never told exactly what's going on. It's always down to the media to report it, and it's their job to either make you furious at or rally behind a party. By cherry picking quotes, leaving out certain facts, and emphasising on others, we're left with a less than impartial view. It helps when outlets from asymmetrical political spectrums report the same story, as you can more often than not piece it all together to get the true story. Even then though, there's always shit left out that we don't know about.

One thing that I definitely know I want out of our government is stability, because it's just about the best alternative to transparency that we're gonna get. If that means the Tories are still in power, so be it. Considering how ruthless they've been, it could turn out to be for the best in terms of future government. If they've reduced the deficit as much as they claim, this may mean that the next party to take hold have a lot more wiggle room in terms of the overall budget.

May seem like I'm talkin bout millions dyin now so thousands can smile later, but I for one don't want to see the same cycle repeat itself... Well-intentioned party take over, plunge us into debt, lose trust, then the "bad guys" come into clean up the mess. I'm by no means happy to see the Conservatives remain in power, but I'm willing to give them a chance to see this plan of theirs through. And you can say what you want about Cameron (the cunt), but there's no denying that out of the potential candidates, he's the only true leader. I can't stand the fucker, but I can at least give him that.

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Re: UK General Election

Postby Riku Rose » Sat May 09, 2015 1:47 pm

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Re: UK General Election

Postby south carmain » Sun May 10, 2015 9:16 am

People are getting very angry over this. Shall we just become a socialist dictatorship instead like many of our friends were or still are in north africa and the middle east?
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Re: UK General Election

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Mon May 11, 2015 12:45 pm

Cameron WILL save us. He is a good man and a good leader who always makes sure the people are well looked after. ;-)

The SNP thing was what Henry said, and what Mue_26 said. As a Scot, I was insulted, patronised and threatened by Labour and the Tories. Labour warned us "don't vote tactically", so we didn't, we and I voted for what seemed like the only party who didn't want to make us out to be the bad guys whenever possible (though to be fair, the SNP weren't too shy when it came to playing that game too), with a few mostly socialist policies we think would be good for everyone (though would become expensive for 70m people rather than just 6m). We managed to piss off most of the establishment with those games though, so those 56 seats are probably gonna count for fuck-all when it comes to going up against the 550+ combined seats of Labour and Conservative proposals. :(

On the other end of the spectrum though, I have more to lose than most due to the "nasty" Tories (it's almost a form of brainwashing here in some parts of Scotland) since I get repeat prescriptions (free), don't earn a top 1% wage packet and live in Scotland, yet none of the doom-and-gloom knee-jerk The Sun-inspired predictions have ever actually happened, in my tax-paying lifetime at least. This is why all things considered, I'm not too offended that "they" are in again.

Reading the Yahoo news stories, a lot of the comments seem to think it's the SNP voters' faults that the Tories got in? I don't get it? Only one area, Dumfries, was blue on the map. Plus, the difference between the total Labour and Tory seats was SO large, that even if Scotland was all red, Labour still wouldn't have won. At the end of the day, the parties played their games and the votes reflected the games they played, if they made an entire nation hate both major parties, it was THEIR own doing.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby beedle » Mon May 11, 2015 1:06 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote:One thing that I definitely know I want out of our government is stability, because it's just about the best alternative to transparency that we're gonna get. If that means the Tories are still in power, so be it. Considering how ruthless they've been, it could turn out to be for the best in terms of future government. If they've reduced the deficit as much as they claim, this may mean that the next party to take hold have a lot more wiggle room in terms of the overall budget.


This is the problem - the Tories haven't been great on the economy. The deficit has increased. GDP growth is down since 2010. NHS bureaucracy (which the reforms were designed to cut down on) has increased. Their economic reforms have utterly failed, yet the opposition have not once capitalised on it. The economy has been terrible for the past five years: remember the double dip recession scare? Other countries who have actually had competent spending policies, their economies are now doing BETTER than ours. We've not only gone through the painful cuts, the pay cuts and the suffering, but we have nothing to show for it. But who publically called them on their terrible record? Labour has just shot itself in the foot and assumed it would win by simply existing.

Labour cocked up on the economy. The Tories let the wound fester and now we're in a way worse position than we were five years ago.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby south carmain » Tue May 12, 2015 1:46 am

beedle wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote:One thing that I definitely know I want out of our government is stability, because it's just about the best alternative to transparency that we're gonna get. If that means the Tories are still in power, so be it. Considering how ruthless they've been, it could turn out to be for the best in terms of future government. If they've reduced the deficit as much as they claim, this may mean that the next party to take hold have a lot more wiggle room in terms of the overall budget.


This is the problem - the Tories haven't been great on the economy. The deficit has increased. GDP growth is down since 2010. NHS bureaucracy (which the reforms were designed to cut down on) has increased. Their economic reforms have utterly failed, yet the opposition have not once capitalised on it. The economy has been terrible for the past five years: remember the double dip recession scare? Other countries who have actually had competent spending policies, their economies are now doing BETTER than ours. We've not only gone through the painful cuts, the pay cuts and the suffering, but we have nothing to show for it. But who publically called them on their terrible record? Labour has just shot itself in the foot and assumed it would win by simply existing.

Labour cocked up on the economy. The Tories let the wound fester and now we're in a way worse position than we were five years ago.

There was one quarter in 2010 where the economy grew at a higher % than current levels however that was recovering from the extreme negative growth caused by the recession so was actually less in total numbers than it is growing now. The economy is currently growing and healthy however the problem is that this growth doesn't reflect the whole of society, for many lower class people we might as well still be in a recession as it stands.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/10613201
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Re: UK General Election

Postby Shenmuedabest » Thu May 14, 2015 1:19 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote:
Shenmuedabest wrote:Keep running your mouth and you'll eventually convince yourself that that bollocks you're peddling is fact.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ca ... s-with-nhs


Going through the cited sources now. Half of em seem to be conjecture/speculation, the other half bang on. This is one of the other many reasons I won't vote. When it comes down to it, none of us actually know the political structure well enough to make a truly informed decision on who would be best to run the country. Even the least worst.

The problem is that, whilst I would like to see a number of policies implemented (every party has at least three or four guddens, even UKIP), we don't actually know how viable they are, and what will suffer as a consequence. A lot of that is down to the fact that we're never told exactly what's going on. It's always down to the media to report it, and it's their job to either make you furious at or rally behind a party. By cherry picking quotes, leaving out certain facts, and emphasising on others, we're left with a less than impartial view. It helps when outlets from asymmetrical political spectrums report the same story, as you can more often than not piece it all together to get the true story. Even then though, there's always shit left out that we don't know about.

One thing that I definitely know I want out of our government is stability, because it's just about the best alternative to transparency that we're gonna get. If that means the Tories are still in power, so be it. Considering how ruthless they've been, it could turn out to be for the best in terms of future government. If they've reduced the deficit as much as they claim, this may mean that the next party to take hold have a lot more wiggle room in terms of the overall budget.

May seem like I'm talkin bout millions dyin now so thousands can smile later, but I for one don't want to see the same cycle repeat itself... Well-intentioned party take over, plunge us into debt, lose trust, then the "bad guys" come into clean up the mess. I'm by no means happy to see the Conservatives remain in power, but I'm willing to give them a chance to see this plan of theirs through. And you can say what you want about Cameron (the cunt), but there's no denying that out of the potential candidates, he's the only true leader. I can't stand the fucker, but I can at least give him that.


I'm seriously getting pissed off with reading the argument "they're all just as bad as each other". This is a totally untrue and uninformed opinion. The Lib Dems blocked the Tories from pressing ahead with some pretty vile policies, including - need anyone repeat - WITHDRAWING FROM THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT. To say they're all "just the same" is outright bollocks.

Shall we just break down what the Human Rights Act consists of and protects?

The Human Rights Act protects the following freedoms:

Freedom of thought, religion and belief – you are free to believe anything you wish and practice any religion or belief.

No discrimination – everyone is seen as equal regardless of their gender, race, age, religion, sexuality, etc.

Protection of property – this protects against state interference with your property.

Education – all children have a right to an education. Free elections – any election must be free and fair.

Freedom of speech – you have the right to peacefully express your views.

Freedom of peaceful protest – you are free to protest organisations or people peacefully.

Respect for privacy – you are protected against unnecessary surveillance.

Freedom to marry – you have the freedom to marry and raise a family.

The right to Freedom – you have the right to be free and on a state with a very good reason can imprison you. Furthermore, you cannot be put into slavery or placed into slave-like situations.

The right to a fair trial – if you are charged with a crime you have the right to defend yourself and are innocent until proven guilty.

Protection against torture – you are protected from being tortured or treated in a inhumane or degrading way.

The right to life – your life is protected by law and the state is expected to investigate if it ends suspiciously.

Electoral rights - you have the right to vote in local elections and elections to the European Parliament. The right to vote also includes the right to a secret ballot and the right to stand as a candidate in elections.

Why is there a need for this to be scrapped? Is it not obvious that the Tories want to do away with some of these rights that are in place? I'll bet you my left bollock that Protection of Property, Freedom of speech, Freedom of peaceful protest, Respect for privacy, The right to a fair trial and Electoral rights will be drastically altered or scrapped altogether.

I can't say for certain but I'm fairly sure that you are from a working class background, MiTTZ, and by being so you will be one of the hardest hit.

I do agree that disabled people's benefits should be looked at on a case by case basis as the system is being abused, as is our sometimes lax stance on immigration, but again it should not be that the Government tar everyone with the same brush. It's blanket cutting, it's not on a case by case basis! I personally think what defines me as a human being is caring for others less fortunate than me, and to not demonise a minority just because a few bad eggs abuse a flawed system.

I know all of this has to be paid for, but why does the average Joe with an extra bedroom get hit with the tax but not the people who have enough money to pay for mansion or inheritance tax? The Tories pride themselves in the tag line "we're in this together" but that's simply not the case. Corporations are getting off scott-free with paying tax that they should be paying. Why?

I'm not pro Labour, I just want what's right. The Conservatives in my eyes are so far from being the right answer, that's my issue. I wish people would read into what's going on a little further.

We'll see how Middle England feels about the Tories once they manage to get the fracking fiasco underway. Their lovely little country homes surrounded by 5 acres won't be looking so scenic any more.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby MiTT3NZ » Thu May 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Well, yeah, you're right tbh. I can only go off what I've experienced since I was 13, and we've only ever really had two parties in power since then. Their poor handling of our country's just given me an overall pessimistic outlook on any pleb tryna get into parliament.

As for the abolishment (or just general fucking off) of the Human Rights Act, everyone's makin a huge deal out of it, and rightly so. However, I seriously doubt they're dumb enough to get rid of it without putting something else in place. No doubt it would be more flexible to suit their own agenda, but it could also make things better in the long run (ie the next party in power can take the same basic principles of the HRA and expand upon it to improve it)

Right now, it's too late to do anything about the Conservatives, so I'm pretty much resigned to our fate, and it's an attitude I've carried for a while now. Sometimes you've gotta let go of the smaller problems to focus on the bigger ones, I get that line of thinking, but at this point in my life, I'm focussing on what I can change as an individual rather than what I can't change as a group.

Simply put, I'm more important to me than the rest of the country is. Doesn't matter where that leaves me as long as I'm still standing and City are still scoring.
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Re: UK General Election

Postby south carmain » Thu May 14, 2015 3:18 pm

They're not abolishing the human rights act they're taking it out of the control of the EU. That said this does give them the power to change it although they stated that they won't as it's fine as it is.
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