Feminism

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Re: Feminism

Postby myshtuff » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:34 pm

Kenny wrote:
myshtuff wrote: As I white person I love fried chicken and grape soda.


NO TRUE WHITE PERSON EATS CHICKEN AND DRINKS GRAPE SODA

Go back to eating granola bars, whitey.


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Re: Feminism

Postby mue 26 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:37 pm

Yet if an injustice is done to a male, some of these outspoken feminists are pretty indifferent or uncaring about it. As said before, it's not promoting female equality...it's promoting female supremacy. They should be relabeled as female supremacists.


So you're suggesting that feminism is all about promoting female supremacy just because there are a few uncaring douchbags who call themselves feminists? I know many feminists who are equally caring and considerate about any gender colour or creed.

edit: Maybe I just misunderstood your post, I'm not sure.

I wonder why...


Why are dissing me for being a V? what does that have to do with anything?
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Re: Feminism

Postby MiTT3NZ » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:41 pm

mue 26 wrote:
Yet if an injustice is done to a male, some of these outspoken feminists are pretty indifferent or uncaring about it. As said before, it's not promoting female equality...it's promoting female supremacy. They should be relabeled as female supremacists.


So you're suggesting that feminism is all about promoting female supremacy just because there are a few uncaring douchbags who call themselves feminists? I know many feminists who are equally caring and considerate about any gender colour or creed.


Oh, Mue...
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Re: Feminism

Postby Kenny » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:41 pm

mue 26 wrote:
Yet if an injustice is done to a male, some of these outspoken feminists are pretty indifferent or uncaring about it. As said before, it's not promoting female equality...it's promoting female supremacy. They should be relabeled as female supremacists.


So you're suggesting that feminism is all about promoting female supremacy just because there are a few uncaring douchbags who call themselves feminists? I know many feminists who are equally caring and considerate about any gender colour or creed.


No.

I'm saying the ones who are advocating female equality and simultaneously are uncaring towards males suffering the same plights are the female supremacists.
Last edited by Kenny on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Feminism

Postby mue 26 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:42 pm

Yeah, I thought so, hence I edited my post. I agree.
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Re: Feminism

Postby MiTT3NZ » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:48 pm

Lay in bed, chillin on here coz I can't sleep, noticed Myshtuff post about fried chicken, and now I defo can't sleep til I've had some Southern Fried Chicken strips.

Wanker...
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Re: Feminism

Postby Calshot » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:50 pm

mue 26 wrote: Calshot, I don't know who Melody Hensley is or anything about her, but trivializing someone else's pain and suffering is a completely dickish thing to do. Calling anyone a "social justice warrior" also makes you comes across as a complete tool, I'm sorry, it just has that effect, so I hope you are aware and don't ever say it in the real world. What does it even mean? I've honestly never seen that expression used by anyone else except unjustifiably angry videogame forum members.


Did you actually read the claim? Hensley said that she'd got post-traumatic stress disorder from reading mean things about her on Twitter. She compared her experience of reading mean things on Twitter is comparable to what war veterans with PTSD face. Do you really think the levels of suffering are anywhere close to the same level?

And in what world has the wage gap been "debunked"? It's well reported by any reputable source that in both your country and mine, there is a very real wage gap.

I don't care about stuff like page 3, or about the word "cunt" (as it's not gender specific anymore), but pretending that sexism doesn't exist in our societies and is only relegated to "ass backwards counties" is an exercise in willful ignorance.

It's so well-reported that you didn't bother to leave any sources eh? Well here's a few sources pointing out why the wage gap isn't as heinous as it is often reported as.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender- ... lete-myth/
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/ ... man_s.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... n-men.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina ... 73804.html

The whole "women makes 77 cents on the dollar for every dollar that a man makes" only applies when you're comparing the annual wages of a man to the annual wages to a woman. That assumption fails to take into account so many variables, like the different occupations men and women tend to have, education, the different hours, etc.

When you make an apples-to-apples comparison with everything being equal, the gap between wages is only about 4 to 7 cents. So there is a wage gap, but it's not anywhere near as much an injustice as it is reported. The gap itself can be potentially explained by things like women's choices of career and education. Sure, sexism may play a part of it, but it's not the primary factor.

And did I ever say sexism doesn't exist in our societies? Nope. Another assumption.

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Re: Feminism

Postby OL » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:53 pm

mue 26 wrote:
elfshadowreaper wrote: Men and women are inherently different.


How? The only differences are arbitrary biological ones.


I fail to see how the usual differences in physical strength, reproductive roles, nurturing acuity, and mind-affecting hormone levels are anything to be glossed over.
We aren't just featureless lumps of flesh with no defining characteristics aside from either a penis or a vagina. Like the guy said, men and women are inherently different. That doesn't mean one is better or more valuable than the other (how could they be, when one can't exist without the other?), but come on... pretending there's no difference is just silly.
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Re: Feminism

Postby myshtuff » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:56 pm

The over simplifiction of statistical analyses in mainstream media is what causes most people to say misinterpreted "facts"
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Re: Feminism

Postby Yukupo » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:57 pm

Feminism is absolutely necessary. Its plain as day. I can see it in your responses, throughout the gaming community, throughout society as a whole.

First of all, let's dispense with the feminist strawman already. Feminism is not here to take over and oppress men. If you want to look for radical feminists that want to kill all men, sure you can find them. Because you know what? There are radical people for every movement. But bringing it up every single time feminism is brought up is ridiculous. You're shutting the conversation down before it can happen. (Not sure how many here are Christian, but if somebody brought up the radical sects of Christianity to you every time you mentioned your religion I'm sure you'd be pretty pissed off.)

We are still a long way out from actual equality. The arguments people today use against feminism are the same arguments men used against feminism 100 years ago. You want to think we're all equal but we're not. Until we can all acknowledge our privilege and work toward a better future we're going to be stuck in inequality for a long time.

Women are treated as objects. Its clear the way they're presented in the media and the way people talk about or to them. I'm sure all of you wouldn't feel good if your entire life was people judging you as a sex object. If you're sexual, you get called one slur, if you're not sexual you get called another. There's no winning there. For a man, it doesn't matter. That's called a double standard which wouldn't exist if we were equal.

Women are treated as less intelligent or less qualified. Would you feel good about going through life trying to pursue a career and are constantly questioned, talked down to, and having everything explained to you while a person of the opposite sex does not?

Nobody is saying as a white man you haven't had challenges and adversity in your life, but typically for women and people of color your have to work twice as hard to get half as far. People have socially constructed images of how they view certain types of people to be and its hard for many to get past them.

On the topic of 'shaming white men'. White men have ruled for a long time. The institutions that exist within western society were created and controlled by white men. Most wealth is owned by white men. Laws were made by white men. Historically its a very unequal world. This is not about shaming white men. It's not about calling them evil. It's about exposing the privilege they enjoy each and every day so that we might start getting the conversation going as to how to change the world.

It's easy to say "Hey, they should take down the confederate flag, see I'm not racist!" It's not as easy to understand and admit your privileges and biases.

The 'everyone is to sensitive these days' argument is bullshit. You don't want to admit that these things are ingrained in society and that maybe, hey, you're a little bit sexist/racist/homophobic/etc too. Its easy for a bunch of white men to sit around and go "Yeah I agree that's not offensive, these people are too sensitive!"

Your experiences != everyone else's.
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Re: Feminism

Postby MiTT3NZ » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:03 pm

I'm not reading that. Women are great unless they aren't, we should all be equal but recognise that we're different, and Cheryl Cole should jump on my nob. End of.
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Re: Feminism

Postby myshtuff » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 pm

I 100% agree with what you say Yukupo and it makes sense but let's go back to the radicalism for a second. You are right that radicals are in every group, but let's face it. They are always the most outspoken. Whether they are wrong or right they always get heard first. So I guess the issue then is to make those voices more reasonable and logical so we can ALL have a serious conversation. Not just with feminism but with any topic.
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Re: Feminism

Postby Yukupo » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:13 pm

myshtuff wrote: I 100% agree with what you say Yukupo and it makes sense but let's go back to the radicalism for a second. You are right that radicals are in every group, but let's face it. They are always the most outspoken. Whether they are wrong or right they always get heard first. So I guess the issue then is to make those voices more reasonable and logical so we can ALL have a serious conversation. Not just with feminism but with any topic.

I guess the issue is like this: Say, for example, this entire forum were a feminist forum where people talk about feminist issues all the time, right? Now someone makes a topic about how much radical feminists piss them off. At that point, people are already discussing actual feminist issues so complaints about radicals isn't such a big deal. It isn't detracting.

However, what I end up seeing much of the time is that feminism gets brought up and the topic is instantly shot down with complaints about radical feminism. Real discussions never get a chance to happen.
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Re: Feminism

Postby myshtuff » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:17 pm

Yukupo wrote:
myshtuff wrote: I 100% agree with what you say Yukupo and it makes sense but let's go back to the radicalism for a second. You are right that radicals are in every group, but let's face it. They are always the most outspoken. Whether they are wrong or right they always get heard first. So I guess the issue then is to make those voices more reasonable and logical so we can ALL have a serious conversation. Not just with feminism but with any topic.

I guess the issue is like this: Say, for example, this entire forum were a feminist forum where people talk about feminist issues all the time, right? Now someone makes a topic about how much radical feminists piss them off. At that point, people are already discussing actual feminist issues so complaints about radicals isn't such a big deal. It isn't detracting.

However, what I end up seeing much of the time is that feminism gets brought up and the topic is instantly shot down with complaints about radical feminism. Real discussions never get a chance to happen.


Fair enough. I guess I was just tainted by a bad experience I had with a friend of mine.
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Re: Feminism

Postby mue 26 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:19 pm

I fail to see how the usual differences in physical strength, reproductive roles, nurturing acuity, and mind-affecting hormone levels are anything to be glossed over.


All of these bar reproductive roles (again arbitrary) apply between different men. And I know plenty of men that are more nurturing than plenty of women I know. And what difference do the "differing hormone levels" make, what implication do you think they really have?

id you actually read the claim? Hensley said that she'd got post-traumatic stress disorder from reading mean things about her on Twitter. She compared her experience of reading mean things on Twitter is comparable to what war veterans with PTSD face. Do you really think the levels of suffering are anywhere close to the same level?


No I didn't read them. But again, you're trivializing another person's suffering because you view it as lesser to another's, which is dickish.

And have a read through this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
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