Europe's immigration crisis

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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:26 pm

Merkel's career will take a battering for this I reckon, unless she solves it in some ingenious way. Many EU countries closing their borders now.

I think Britain managing to get away with taking only 20000 was actually quite ballsy by Cameron. Since the EU is locking itself down, it should probably make it harder for them to get to the France then the UK...

Christ, I sound like a total Kipper there. I'm really not, but kind of walking their line on this one...
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby south carmain » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:48 pm

Hungary closed their borders so the migrants rioted.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:42 am

..so they got the water cannons and tear gas out, which made the rest of the world scold them (Hungary) for it. If you and me went to Downing Street and started rioting, they'd do the same to us, so this just makes me think, to even more of an extent than I already did, what a bunch of cunts the media and those who the media goes to for soundbites are...
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby Master Kyodai » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:12 pm

Being from Germany I am personally angry at all European politicians for not doing more. It's not even a new problem, there's always been poor people drowning in the Mediterranean Sea just because of stupid laws that they gotta come to a country to apply for a permit to come to a country. I never understood why they can't just go to the German Embassy in Syria, Turkey or wherever and be like "Hey, we're dieing here, can be stay in your country".

That Germany re-instates border controls makes me ashamed that I am German...

And what Hungary is doing atm is just scandalous - Viktor Orban is imho one of the worst politicians of the world, there are some dictators that are better than him. How can he close borders and let these refugees suffer? None of them wanna stay in his shit country anyways, they just wanna cross it to get to a "good" country anyways. And he forgets that without the big payments from the European Union they would be more broke than Greece...

I wish we could just deport all the right wing Nazis and scum from Germany, best would be directly to Hungary, there they might find some new soul mates. And we could give their appartments and houses to refugees, so 2 problems solved at once. Someone send me a genie in a bottle and I'd knew my first wish...
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:23 pm

Angela Merkel (thinking she was) speaking on behalf of every single person in the EU with the "we'll take care of you, rush here soon!" is a German thing to be a lot more ashamed of than the border closing....why do you want your country over-run with these people? Last I read (though it was probably lies) about 800,000 had landed in Germany before they shut the borders. That's an insane number, how is Germany going to look after all them? Where are 800,000 new jobs going to come from?

Like I said before I'm no UKIP fanatic, but this can't happen, they just CAN NOT swan over here and demand access to the EU, then get violent and unruly when they are told "No". It makes them look like savages.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby south carmain » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:32 pm

Bit unfair to call anyone who doesn't want hundreds of thousands of undocumemted migrants in their country "right wing nazis and scum"...
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby Master Kyodai » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:45 pm

I don't think she exactly said "rush here soon", but maybe she should have said that and offered free transfer services. Germany "over-run" with "these people"? Well yeah we should have more housing for refugees, but people are working on that. In my home town they have re-fitted the old army barracks and luckily that made space for another 1000ish people. I know some big cities are not in such a lucky position right now, but all are trying their best to expand capacities no matter what. If we are 80 million people here or 81 million people, what's the difference? So statistically you'll have to wait 2% longer at the doctor now? Oh bummer... And I don't think all of tehse people need a job here and now, at the moment they really just need food and shelter. If they can learn german and find a job that's great, no doubt, but tehy really have different problems right now.

I don't know much aabout the UK to be honest, maybe the British are so much down to their knees that they really can't take any refugees right now. But I'd say Germany or some other country has to help these people, i mean when Germans fled from WW2 the Americans and other nations gave them shelter, so i guess it's 200% fair to do that for other people now. Also what is the alternative? Let these people just die? Did you ever manage to imagine how it would be if you were in Syria trying to escape from a war, from just being killed, running for your life, leaving home and everything you ever owned behind? I doubt it's easy for these people. Unfortunately karma rarely ever works, right? Otherwise it would be these right winged German assholes who'd flee from murder, war, rape and chaos today...

And of course people who "don't want foreigners" are right wing nazi scum. I met so many of such people here and they are just plain idiot. Proud to be German. My ass. How can you proud to coincidentially be born in Germany? I can only be proud of things i worked for. And about "undocumented migrants" vs "the good brave nationals of my country". Why not just think of them as humans? Does it really matter if someone was lucky to be born in Berlin, Paris or London? Does that make us better than the unlucky people who made everything wrong and were born in Syria?
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby south carmain » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:59 pm

It's not about being better but rather security concerns. Also they don't just want "safety" since they had that in many countries before arriving in Germany and considering it costs thousands of dollars to make the trip they weren't strapped for cash either.

Now if you want to take in hundreds of thousands of young men who you have no idea who they really are that's fine but I don't see the point in demonising those that don't.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby Master Kyodai » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:04 pm

Security concerns???? The images of burning police cars in Germany...That were not immigrants, that were these fine right wing Germans. The day that happened in Cologne i was accidentially in the city with my wife and daughter, we did not know about that "demonstration" (If destroying stuff and attacking police counts as a "demonstration") and an old woman came along our way and she just said "You come here with a little kid? You fools, turn around!" And after talking to a nice police officer who told us about the situation a few hundred meters away we just got the f... out of there.

And i talked to loads of these smart people here in germany personally when they held their propaganda in the city. Whoever i asked, they told me what a "burden" these foreigners are, how dangerous and expensive. But when i asked that person what personal dangers they encountered or what personal financial disadvantages - they didn't even know. They just "fear" or "hate" foreigners and what really makes them idiots - they can't tell you why, all just general mumbo jumbo like "i read it" "seen on TV". Someone told me how dangerous Islam is and i asked him like "how many muslims do you know personally?" "none." yeah makes sense. On a side note - pretty much all murderers and terrorists we had in Germany were christians or atheists if that makes you feel safer.

Actually personally i rather respect these goofballs that say straight "I hate all foreigners". That's at least honest even if it is still stupid. But i hate these people who start like "I got nothing against foreigners, but..."

often when i say that my wife is Japanese they say like "oh no the Japanese are fine..." I guess there are 1st class and 2nd class foreigners.

I can't even tell why so many refugees prefer Germany. maybe we are a bit more welcoming than some european countries (yeah at least more than Hungary, that is sure). But some Refugees also go to Sweden (No idea why, it's just cold there imho). I guess some already have friends or family here. Germany grew strong from foreigners, after WW2 most young men were either dead or POW. Without the help of foreigners Germany would prolly still be under a pile of rubble.

Seriously South carmain - if Yu Suzuki came to your country, would you raise a petition to have him deported? Or is he a "better dirty foreigner"? Why do you play Shenmue at all? Only foreigners in that game...
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby south carmain » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:12 pm

Well yeah security concerns. Maybe it's because my local bus route has been bombed in the past and ISIS have said they are sending thousands of terrorists amongst the refugees in addition to hungary finding a known terrorist amongst the rioters but I think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned about all these young men without documentation trying to enter the west.

Also good job as trying to paint me as a racist with that last comment, I actually have friends both Muslim and Christian living in Syria right now that I've known since before the civil war started. I wouldn't be against them seeking refuge here as I can confirm they are not a security threat, the hundreds of thousands illegally trying to enter Europe with fake or no passports at all however I can't condone their entry as I can't say which ones pose a threat or not. This has absolutely got nothing to do with race.

Also they go to Sweden and Germany because you give more things to asylum seekers and don't care about the dublin treaty, hence why they rioted when Hungary forced them to register as asylum seekers there.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby Master Kyodai » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:39 pm

If you refer to the 7th July 2005 London bombings (My guess is that you're from the UK), then it might be new to you that 3 of the 4 terrorists were actually born in the UK. So what is your suggestion here?

ISIS have announced to destroy America, they announced they will soon rule the world. So we let millions of refugees die to be safe? Is that the solution? The way you argue is already a success for ISIS.

So you know a handful of people from Syria and these could come? And all the others not? Did you tell that your friends from Syria? If they still wanna be counted as your friends after you tell them that then they can sure take a lot. How many "unknown syrians" have threatened your security so far? What's your solution? Throwing them into the ocean? Good news: Many of them are so desperate they do that themselves. Somewhere around 20,000 people drowned in the Mediterranean Sea in the past 18 month, maybe even more. More than the whole population in my whole town. Keeps you secure i guess? Maybe one of them was a terrorist? We'll never know.

Maybe you're not a racist. maybe you're just cold hearted and really don't care if people die somewhere else. Reminds me a bit of that old Samn n Max computer game, where you throw a bomb out of the window and the dialog is like "Oh hopefully noone was in that bus!" "Yeah at least noone we know". If your friends from Syria, the christian and muslim ones would die on their way to Britain, would you spill a tear? Or would it just be victims 20001, 20002 and 20003?


If you mention the Dublin Regulation here I am 100% sure you either never read it or never understood it. Dublin III actually basically says that the state where a refugee files for asylum has to decide about it and if they travel to another state after filing asylum at one state they will be returned to the original state where they filed their application. Hungary was NOT forcing people to file for asylum there they were PISSED that so many people made the mistake to file for asylum there and thus were returned to Hungary later on if they traveled to another country. Hungary does NOT want people to fill an asylum application in Hungary, that is probably the main reason why they closed their borders. If they would instead just have properly explained refugees the background of Dublin III and the situation in Hungary I am sure VERY few would have filled any application there.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby Riku Rose » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:47 pm

Its not as simple as saying let everyone in.

Security is a reason for concern and should be one of the main ones. The reason I shut my front door when I get home is because anyone could walk in. I'd like to think someone would see it open and close it for me but there is also the chance a thief could walk in and help themselves. If you was in charge of the immigration offices would you waive doing any criminal history checks on applicants to see if they could be a potential threat?

All these people you let in need homes as you can't have them living on the street. I don't know how housing works with the government in Germany but here in the UK you have to turn up with everything you own and say you have nowhere to go to have any hope of being homed. My grandfather had to slip someone a brown envelope in the car park to get ahead in the housing list and that was in the 60's when it was even easier to get homed. Most countries can't build enough homes to meet demand already and for every family you let in you need a home for them. The UK is already overcrowded as it is, go on any motorway or train after 5PM when work finishes and it's a joke, the thought of adding more people to that is crazy.

Then you also have to think about how are these people going to get money? Not everyone's going to go out and get a job as soon as they've finished unpacking their stuff in their new home in a new country. It could take weeks, months or even years for some people to find jobs. For every day they are not working someone else is having to pay for them and that someone is the tax payer.

Then there are things like you mentioned with having to wait longer at the hospital. Who's going to pay for their healthcare? If you get almost 1 million people from a poor country coming in they're going to make the most of free healthcare and finally get a lot of pre existing issues looked at. It's not just the waiting in line but they will be taking up beds and yet again someone has to pay for their medication and treatment, the taxpayer

No one here is saying people in need of help shouldn't be given to these people, but saying just let them all in is very shortsighted and naive. If you let in 1 million people you'd need roughly 300,000 homes for them provided they're all families of 3, another 1 million people claiming benefits while they look for jobs so they can survive and also have to pay for any medical expenses any of these 1 million people may have. I can't be bothered to work out the math when we all know the amount will be stupidly high.

If you don't think money should be an issue donate every penny from your next 6 pay cheques to them and see how much of an issue money becomes.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby south carmain » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:53 pm

Master Kyodai wrote:If you refer to the 7th July 2005 London bombings (My guess is that you're from the UK), then it might be new to you that 3 of the 4 terrorists were actually born in the UK. So what is your suggestion here?

ISIS have announced to destroy America, they announced they will soon rule the world. So we let millions of refugees die to be safe? Is that the solution? The way you argue is already a success for ISIS.

So you know a handful of people from Syria and these could come? And all the others not? Did you tell that your friends from Syria? If they still wanna be counted as your friends after you tell them that then they can sure take a lot. How many "unknown syrians" have threatened your security so far? What's your solution? Throwing them into the ocean? Good news: Many of them are so desperate they do that themselves. Somewhere around 20,000 people drowned in the Mediterranean Sea in the past 18 month, maybe even more. More than the whole population in my whole town. Keeps you secure i guess? Maybe one of them was a terrorist? We'll never know.

Maybe you're not a racist. maybe you're just cold hearted and really don't care if people die somewhere else. Reminds me a bit of that old Samn n Max computer game, where you throw a bomb out of the window and the dialog is like "Oh hopefully noone was in that bus!" "Yeah at least noone we know". If your friends from Syria, the christian and muslim ones would die on their way to Britain, would you spill a tear? Or would it just be victims 20001, 20002 and 20003?


If you mention the Dublin Regulation here I am 100% sure you either never read it or never understood it. Dublin III actually basically says that the state where a refugee files for asylum has to decide about it and if they travel to another state after filing asylum at one state they will be returned to the original state where they filed their application. Hungary was NOT forcing people to file for asylum there they were PISSED that so many people made the mistake to file for asylum there and thus were returned to Hungary later on if they traveled to another country. Hungary does NOT want people to fill an asylum application in Hungary, that is probably the main reason why they closed their borders. If they would instead just have properly explained refugees the background of Dublin III and the situation in Hungary I am sure VERY few would have filled any application there.

Yes and thousands of people following the same extremist ideology are entering Europe pretending to be refugees so seeing that we have experience with people following extremist islam (not to be confused with moderate muslims) I know how horrifying their attacks can be. Seeing that these people were safe in Turkey I can't justify the risk of people being killed even if it means that the majority will have better living standards. Lone wolf attacks are already on the rise in Europe and when they get even worse due to extremists taking advantage of the situation I hope you can justify it to the families of victims how letting in hundreds of thousands of undocumented men was worth it.

My Syrian friends actually share my stance on this. One is going to go to Turkey soon since ISIS are approaching their area but has no intention of going further because they will be safe there. Also I'm not against taking in refugees and share my governments stance of taking the most vulnerable from the camps as they are documented and need help the most, I'm also not against the fact that my government has sent hundreds of millions of dollars to help them and plans on sending billions in total. Keep on calling me a racist though, I'm sure that will make you right. Also the majority die entering through Libya while I'm talking about those entering from the east.

These people aren't dying in Turkey either so that point is moot.

The Dublin convention states that refugees must register in the first EU country they enter. And Hungary was forcing people to apply for asylum there hence why they stopped the trains to Austria at a refugee camp, even when they closed their borders Asylum seekers could still enter the country through official checkpoints however it meant they had to register in Hungary.
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby Master Kyodai » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:19 pm

So now the problem is not really foreigners but muslims? Being from the UK you might remember IRA terrorists? Well they were also extremist but from a different religion i think. So to be safe also deport all christians i suggest. Maybe you heard of "Rote Armee Fraktion" (I dun wanna call them "RAF" when talking to British people for obvious reasons) - worst terrorists in germany ever. They were not even religious! Shame on them. Deport all atheists!!!

Seriously - the people who flee from ISIS - they are the last one to fight a holy war, otherwise they'd stay with ISIS. And what about the London bombers that you fear so much? Born in UK? Maybe you should deport everyone who was born in the UK to be safe? Or just the muslims?

I can see you have easy solutions.

I don't know if all your talk about your "many friends, christians and muslims" from Syria is just made up or not, but if they wanna wait for ISIS to come they are already stupid and if they wanna stay in Turkey they prolly have the intelligence of a loaf of bread, i guess that makes them good friends anyways. Seriously - Turkey already has OVER 2 MILLION refugees and even if you don't care much about anything you may know that Turkey is neither a very rich state not that it is without problems. They are having their own 2 wars against ISIS and kurds at the same time, terrorist attacks, government trying to mute all critical voices. You can imagine your bright friend from Syria will be welcomed there and taken good care of, eh? Yeah not dieing from war in Turkey, prolly just illness, homlessness and starvation. great choice.


Dublin III just states about the state where the Asylum seeker files for asylum. That is "usually" the state where the person enters the european union as it also protects them from being sent back, but that it is NOT stated by dublin at all.

And if you look at your statement it makes itself invalid. So if they have to apply in the state they enter the european union, how did they get to Hungary? By Rocket directly from Turkey or Syria? probably.


You still haven't answered what your solution is. Sit it out? Let these people die? Leave Turkey alone with the problem? All good solutions if you sit in front of your TV, dig your arms in a bag of Doritos and moan how terrible the world is. Exactly my image of Europe... let them all drown in the ocean, good food for the fish i buy in the supermarket...
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Re: Europe's immigration crisis

Postby shredingskin » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:24 pm

One of those moments I feel grateful I live in the ass of the world.
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