Random political rambling

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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Sean » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:21 am

In other news, one of the GOP "candidates" has stated, in defense of the much maligned Kentucky clerk Kim Davis, that the 14th Amendment is basically not a thing.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Mr357 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:07 pm

Mr. Frozen wrote:Sanders on immigration
Sanders on the debt
Sanders on foreign policy
Sanders on how to pay for education (scroll down to the part that says "But nothing is “free”! How are you going to pay for this?")

I must also remind you that the federal government stepped in on colleges a long time ago, by basically allowing anyone to get a federal loan to pay for college. This is what caused tuition to soar and the ridiculous way colleges handle textbooks. Sanders wants the rich to stop evading taxes and give back to the country that allowed them to become so rich. The richest of Americans are ridiculously rich and if they started paying their taxes, these programs would easily be funded and then some. They sure as hell can afford it. The average person will not have to pay a cent extra in taxes.


But that's the exact same crap liberals have been selling people for years. No matter what they say or promise, they always end up raising taxes for everyone, not these elites that supposedly pay nothing. I'm well aware that some truly do get away with paying no taxes, but there are many of these wealthy people that started with nothing and nearly worked themselves to death to get to where they are. They may be millionaires, but they're still honest, hard working Americans like you and me, and they already pay insane amounts in taxes.

I'm going to support the candidate that will get rid of these ridiculous programs the previous administrations have put in place, and actually reduce our federal spending. Unfortunately, I may be out of luck there.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby streetwaves » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:30 pm

Mr357 wrote:
Mr. Frozen wrote:Sanders on immigration
Sanders on the debt
Sanders on foreign policy
Sanders on how to pay for education (scroll down to the part that says "But nothing is “free”! How are you going to pay for this?")

I must also remind you that the federal government stepped in on colleges a long time ago, by basically allowing anyone to get a federal loan to pay for college. This is what caused tuition to soar and the ridiculous way colleges handle textbooks. Sanders wants the rich to stop evading taxes and give back to the country that allowed them to become so rich. The richest of Americans are ridiculously rich and if they started paying their taxes, these programs would easily be funded and then some. They sure as hell can afford it. The average person will not have to pay a cent extra in taxes.


But that's the exact same crap liberals have been selling people for years. No matter what they say or promise, they always end up raising taxes for everyone, not these elites that supposedly pay nothing. I'm well aware that some truly do get away with paying no taxes, but there are many of these wealthy people that started with nothing and nearly worked themselves to death to get to where they are. They may be millionaires, but they're still honest, hard working Americans like you and me, and they already pay insane amounts in taxes.

I'm going to support the candidate that will get rid of these ridiculous programs the previous administrations have put in place, and actually reduce our federal spending. Unfortunately, I may be out of luck there.


It doesn't sound like you're out of luck at all. Any neocon candidate should work for you, at least in terms of what they say they'll do. Reduce the debt and reduce taxes, all while increasing military spending - that's "the same neocon crap they've been selling for years".
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:41 pm

On the tax situation, no matter what rules are in place, there will be ways to cheat the system, and clever bugger accountants who spot the new legal and legal-ish ways around the rules. They'll then be copied by loads of other people, some of who will spot different ways to add to the arsenal. I'm pretty sure it's the same everywhere, pretty much no avoiding it. Bear in mind that a lot of politicians are wealthy and successful people, sometimes from a long line of family members who were all overachievers, and it's easy to see why they're totally cool with that. Not saying Col Sanders is like that, just saying how most systems where those who govern are "the elite" compared to most of us are. Loads of them are out of touch.
I'm sounding like amiga a bit, so I'll stop right there.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Mr. Frozen » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:37 pm

Mr357 wrote:
But that's the exact same crap liberals have been selling people for years. No matter what they say or promise, they always end up raising taxes for everyone, not these elites that supposedly pay nothing. I'm well aware that some truly do get away with paying no taxes, but there are many of these wealthy people that started with nothing and nearly worked themselves to death to get to where they are. They may be millionaires, but they're still honest, hard working Americans like you and me, and they already pay insane amounts in taxes.

I'm going to support the candidate that will get rid of these ridiculous programs the previous administrations have put in place, and actually reduce our federal spending. Unfortunately, I may be out of luck there.


Yea, that is the thing with political campaigns. It is nothing but promises, you can never be sure if they will follow through with their promises or not. What is different about Sanders is that he isn't backed by corporations like all other politicians are, so he has no obligations to keep corporations happy.

I don't agree on the part about the richest 1%, and especially the .01% being hard working Americans like us, or paying their fair share in taxes. Too lazy to find sources on that right now, though.

Anyway I was curious about how the debt has increased ever since the shitty "trickle-down economics" introduced by Regan in the 80s. Regan introduced huge tax cuts to the rich to promote the economy, and as we know today all that really did was make the rich richer. I decided to pull some data from here, and made a graph about how the debt increased over the years. The red lines are when we had a conservative administration, and the blue are when we had a liberal democratic administration.

Image

This isn't the overall debt, but rather the rate at which the debt was increased over the years. I went with this format because the debt is more of a momentum thing, you can't exactly cut the spending quickly, that has to be a gradual process. No one managed to make the debt decrease, but it is clear that the democrats are better at handling the debt than the republicans. If policies similar to Clinton's were continued into the 2000s, that graph would probably be in the negative, meaning the debt would finally go down. Not sure if the recession would've still happened, though, which is that massive spike from 2008 to 2010.
Last edited by Mr. Frozen on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:43 pm

How does American healthcare work? I looked it up a while back, just out of idle interest being a diabetic I wondered how much I'd cost over there. From what I read, even if you own health insurance, there's an excess of a few thousand before they start paying? The cost of the medication/test items I'd use weren't actually that bad though I remember...
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Sonikku » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:06 pm

St. Elmo's Fire wrote: How does American healthcare work?


Don't get sick. And if you do, drop dead quickly and quietly before you start to cost the state money.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Mr. Frozen » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:25 pm

^Pretty much that. The affordable care act helped things a little bit, but it is a rather shitty solution. It (sorta) forces everyone to get health insurance, and if you are deemed too poor to have insurance, you can receive assistance from the state. Not every doctor has to accept insurance, and really the shitty doctors are the only ones one who accepts insurance from the state. The same rules as regular insurance apply, not everything can be covered. For example lets say you need some sort of life saving surgery. Your insurance may cover the procedure, but not the anesthetic. So you have the option of having your insurance cover the surgery but you are awake the entire time. Most people will not choose this option, which saves the insurance company money. If you aren't rich, the system is pretty fucked and encourages nearly everyone to avoid going to the doctor while giving monthly payments to insurance companies.

I wanna ramble about politics again but I don't really have much to talk about. Sanders released a new video on facebook. Doesn't really tell me anything I didn't know, but it is the essence of his campaign, I guess. I would like to talk about other political candidates, but really they are almost all so damn ridiculous that they aren't worth mentioning. Hilliary Clinton is busy talking about her snapchat and doing the "nae nae" on TV Shows. Obvious she is being coached by some sort of marketing firm that tells her she needs to connect with the younger people or whatever. On the republican side, the entire party is cringing at Donald Trump but he is always on TV since the man is so ridiculous, and news companies get ratings from ridiculous news. Jeb Bush is busy pushing the "Lower taxes for the rich!" nonsense that has been proven to be terrible for the economy over the years.

I recently discovered the game democracy 3. That game is pretty cool, but I don't like how you are forced to have a knee jerk reaction to the people, and introduce bullshit policies to make sure you do not get assassinated even though some of your other policies will fix problems but it takes time for them to show any result. Sorta realistic, I guess.

I haven't been paying much attention to other countries. No idea wtf is going on in the UK right now. The parliament is pretty much a shit show, and has always been I think. The middle east is even worse, which is pretty much with their political representatives saying and doing things that ensure that they do not get killed by radical groups.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Sonikku » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:12 pm

Mr. Frozen wrote: If you aren't rich, the system is pretty fucked


America in a nut shell.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby St. Elmo's Fire » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:32 pm

The things I read, some of it seemed reasonable, like the costs for insulin and syringes seemed to vary from state to state, but seemed to be in the $50-$150 a month region, which I thought didn't sound too bad. I kept reading though, and got to see stuff like "I'm on the work scheme but we have to pay the first $1500-3000", which seems like quite a lot, then people buying single blood test strips for $0.5-1 each, which made me even more dubious when the diabetics commenting said they rarely tested 'cos of this.

Then, the whopper was having to pay for Dr. appointments. I forgot they are businesses that have to make a profit, so when I started reading about $250-400 for a Dr. appointment, I was like: "Go fcuk yo momma!". Damn, we Brits pay a lot in taxes, but I do like our NHS...
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Jeff » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:44 pm

I like Trump. He speaks my language. :usa
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Mr. Frozen » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:02 am

^Can't say I'm surprised.

Why does trump always look like he is taking a shit, and why does his wife always look like she just heard a joke she doesn't get?


EDIT: Oh yea, I did watch this rally for the hell of it a few days ago. The guy almost talks about nothing for an hour. He does throw in random things such as "lower taxes" (hilariously followed up by how rich people pay no taxes, and then he says how the middle class is getting crushed because they are paying taxes... fucking what), "damn illegals", and "Murica, world police." I do respect the fact that others have their own opinions but god damn... I don't see how anyone with any intelligence can support this guy. If this guy gets elected president, I'm packing my bags and moving to Europe because America has been turned into an idiocracy at that point.
Last edited by Mr. Frozen on Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby south carmain » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:06 am

Americans need to vote for trump to be honest, it would be hilarious.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby Sonikku » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:39 am

Sad thing is he's better than most of the other Republican candidates. "OMG Planned Parenthood is harvesting baby's BRAINS while they're still alive for their baby part sales!!" What in the actual fuck.
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Re: Random political rambling

Postby streetwaves » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:47 pm

Sonikku wrote: Sad thing is he's better than most of the other Republican candidates. "OMG Planned Parenthood is harvesting baby's BRAINS while they're still alive for their baby part sales!!" What in the actual fuck.

Yeah, on a handful of issues he actually is. Overall though, he really is a trainwreck of a candidate. It'll be funny while it lasts, save for the really fucked up nativist shit he's stirring up.
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