UK vote to leave the European Union

[Ziming]

phpBB [video]

[KiBa]

Grats, Bri'ain! You got good genes. Because we, the rational, know that liberalism = / = ever-bigger conglomerate government. Because you don't need to be one thing to be unified. Because groups, like individuals, have different needs and wants.

Now, go forth and make a lot of money and be nice.

[ys]

So why were countries like France and Germany (as well as outside countries like America and Japan) so insistant that the UK stay in the EU? This will have a bigger effect on the EU than you are letting yourself believe. Already France is thinking about following Britain out the door, along with Austria, Finland, Hungary and... Netherlands, where you are from, right? This could potentially cause a domino effect.
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I don't think the UK are "majorly fucked" as you so bluntly put it. We don't really know how this will pan out just yet. It's too early to make such drastic assumptions.

Yeah, lots of assumptions in the media and beyond. You can see that it bothers them and the EU-politicians that people decided something. They're used to more control and less democracy of course. Let's not forget that large parts within the EU are never elected by the people.

I also noted a few EU-politicians acting childish. It's quite sad to see them almost throw a tantrum because things didn't go their way. It's obvious that they fear the domino effect which you mentioned.

I think that it's best to wait for more details instead of getting all worked up now. Besides, it's not like the country hasn't been able to manage itself before. So I guess that things will work out when everything calms down. Initial chaos is a bit expected but doesn't have to mean disaster in the long run.

As I told someone, Norway, Switzerland, Canada etc. do well enough outside the EU so it's clearly not an absolute necessity. Some others also act as if it would be impossible to do business now with the rest of the EU. That's absurd though. How did people do business with the US then? Or China, Japan, ... Belgium's government for one already talked about business opportunities.

[SMDzero]

Peter, what are your main arguments for unification? Genuinely curious, as the few Irish friends I know believe an attempt would lead to further divide, and you seem to worry it would do the same as well. I suppose if Scotland could work it out there is hope for Ireland, but I am reminded of the ugly scenes in Glasgow after the Scottish referendum of unionists gloating and turning to violence. The sentiments on both sides seem so strong I imagine it would be a near-impossible task.

Well firstly, let me say i have a Bsc. Hons in politics, which included various histories of various countries thoughout the world. But what i will say is these are all still opinions based on my education and some experience also. Anything i say is not meant to be taken as a personal insult by anyone so place dont! Its all good. Nothing but love from the Irishman, so long as he always has a pint of Guinness.
Also, with anything, things take time. A lot of time to reach their end goal, so of course there would be trouble here in the North if a referendum for a United Ireland proved successful to a yes vote. Unionist/Protestant/Northern Irish/British citizens would riot, They wrecked the city centre a few years ago when the City council democratically voted to stop flying the Union Jack above Belfast city hall. But as time goes on, anger subsides, and the rioting would stop.

So why would i argue for a United Ireland?


1. National identity, historical respect, pride and romanticism.

Im Irish, and proud. Not to sound ignorant, but i love my nationality and wouldnt want to be from any other country on this Earth. Im proud and humbled by our reputation across the globe, and adore the green Emerald Isle i call home. But the part of the county i was born in is not Irish owned. Its owned by England, and incorporated into the United Kingdom. Each day that makes me sad. The divide of the people who live so close between one another makes me sad. And afraid. The fact that i can go into a street less than 2 minutes walk from my house and be murdered for wearing the wrong colour, or feel threatened by seeing a different national flag flying from a lamp post makes me sad. it hurts my pride.

Theres also a romanic aspect of it too, where its well known England tried to conquer the world at one point. They almost succeeded with Ireland, but we bravely fought back with the Easter Rising in 1916, an event popularised around the world by the movie Michael Collins with Liam Neeson, and other such movies. The Irish fought the foreign invaders off of their own land, but ultimately lost the most Northern 6 counties through some shady deals and traitor-ship. From then we have felt isolated from our homeland despite living on it. We well excluded, and part of a nation we dont want to belong to. We have had to bear years of discrimination, political disgust, human rights abuses, civil unrest and most of all, sectarian abuse because we have to share these 6 counties (out of 32!) with people who call themselves British and believe that it is a right thing that England has control over Northern Ireland. Its 2016 for fuck sakes. Give the Irish back their land! A united, not unlike Scotland would simply be a case of Ireland being one again. Free.

2. The end of partition and our economy.

Partition is the border that divides Northern Ireland from the rest of the nation. Since its introduction, its has a constant negative effect on our economy. Business does not like instability, and because there are basically "2 economic systems" in play in what really is the one small land mass, it has resulted in countless businesses going bust over the years due to the instability. Getting rid of partition makes the economy strong, unified and as one. We have 2 different tax models, 2 different currencies and 2 different legal systems. Its insanity when you think about it!! 2 competing economies on the one small island? Its nuts. imagine London breaking away from the rest of England, having its own laws to govern, its own currency to live by, its own trade to negotiate. Thats what we do here, and we pay as a result. A united nation is better against the rest of the world than we are divided.

Thats the worst thing that goes on here. Its the duplication across the nation. We could be more focused and efficient on a local scale considering all of our powers are just devolved from Westminster. If we had a better tax policy developed more locally as one nation, then it would lead to better revenue, and one that would be more tailored and suited than one from London. Also, add to this the better impact it would have for the UK/England itself. You know what the Barnett Formula is? Its the formula which essentially determines how much the UK Treasury gives to each of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We, per head, get £2500 a year more than the English population. Last figures i seen were that the people of Northern Ireland get £10,880 per person from the UK treasury, and in England its £8560 per person. All of those £10k bills could come in handy for England if there was a unification of Ireland. Take it! Youre welcome! Tony Blair was the first Prime Minister ive ever heard say, "if we could give Northern Ireland back to Ireland, we would", and its not hard to work out why. We ARE a sinkhole for the UK economy.


3. Industry and tourism

Im not being big headed, but at some stage in their lives, a majority of people will want to come here. Sit in that quaint old pub, with a peat fire burning, having a pint of Guinness and listen to a couple of lads in the corner play a tin whistle and bodhran. Irish and Ireland have always been cool, and we have always had a great tourism industry. The North, not so much until recently. Thanks to investment from Hollywood there are various blockbuster movies shot here around the year which attract people to the North, and of course, since Game of Thrones is commonly known to be shot in various locations across the North, tourists cant get enough of up here also. Our unification would compliment each other, and again, make us stronger and more efficient as a nation.
Visits to Ireland is always appealing, especially to North Americans, with many of them feeling an attraction through ancestry after the famine forced many to emigrate to the states. Hence the saying, "everyone has a bit of the Irish in them". But a united Ireland can make it realise its full potential, and its at its strongest when it can be marketed as a single nation.

Out industries and exports are not to be forgotten either. What have i mentioned a few times already?? Guinness! A worldwide brand! Along with Bushmills Irish Whiskey, as well as Baileys Irish Cream! Thats what us Irish are famous for! Food stuffs also, such as Irish beef, Pork, Lamb and Chicken are also huge exports, and the export rate of Irish produce is the highest its ever been, coming close to 20 billion per annum (according to recent stats i could find on a quick search). Again, by being united you are basically selling "Ireland" to the world and also ensuring no part of the country is left out. Moy Park Chicken is fast becoming world famous, and thats based here in the North. Their exports to China alone are worth 2 billion! If we are one nation, we can be in a better place to dictate the costs of food, have more control over supermarkets, and do a better job of promoting local business at the same time. We can also be more resilient to the transport of live animals within the nation (with no border) and that would mean cutting down on things like Foot and Mouth Disease, as well as Mad Cow Disease.


4. Health and Social care.

Ah!! The industry i work in! I work for the NHS here in Belfast, and i can tell you from the inside, we already have a north-south healthcare system fully operational. Thats not shocking to us, but for some reason the rest of the world doesnt either, when it is essentially 2 different countries with 2 different healthcare systems working together for the care of patients! We send lots of patients down to Dublin to have treatment done, as do they send patients up to us. In the coming years, all cardiology surgery is looking to be centralised in Dublin. Thats pretty huge. Last year it was a Unionist who was our health minister here in the north (Edwin Poots) and even he said a North-South health model is whats best! Operating 2 healthcare systems on one small island is actually ridiculous! Why should a child have to wait a year for heart surgery here in the North, when they could have the surgery done in 2 weeks just 100 miles down the road!! When it comes to your childs health, see if it matters if your blood runs English blue or Irish green. Its neither, it runs red like the rest of the human beings on this planet,
As for the elderly, yea, tell me how the UK has handled the OAP generation since austerity? Fuck off is my polite response! Ireland provide over treble what the UK government pays out in pensions. Simple as that.


5. Sport.

Look at the Euros right now. 2 separate teams from a small island still in the competition! What could be possible if you combine those teams? More so, how much strength would that show after the history we have? Also its embarrassing for friends of mine, Paddy Barnes and Michael Conlan to both win gold medals in the Olympics and have the "Northern Ireland" flag raised as "God Save the Queen" is played. They both hung their heads down, and refused to sing a song they are forced to sing as an Irish man.
Also, again, there are 2 leagues in this small plot of land! The League of Ireland in the South, and the Irish Premier League in the North. If the island was one, then the revenue for each individual club would be greater, and claim a greater national pride with the pool of sports talent we have. Not just including the soccer team, but also look at the Irish rugby team with players already from both sides of the border on the team. We have past successful footballers, snooker players, golfers, boxers, fighters.... we have shown separately we can take on the world and win, so what can we do together!



Im absolutely wrecked and my brain is fading on me, but that what i can think of from the top of my head,

Isn't there some kind of conflict in Ireland like between Catholics and Protestants or something?

All I know is that one side keeps calling the other side "Screws"???????

Pls explain.

[Let's Get Sweaty]

While Peter's writing his reply, maybe someone can answer a question that's been bugging me for a while. That whites and blacks thing in America - what's that all about? I've heard the word "cracker" used - did it start with a food fight that some people just couldn't get over?

[Peter]

There's no reply needed. Neither side uses screws as a derogatory tern.

[SMDzero]

There's no reply needed. Neither side uses screws as a derogatory tern.

Ok.. I swore I saw some documentary with some Ireland guys were in jail and they kept on calling the guards "screws" I thought that term had something to do with conflict in Ireland.

[Riku Rose]

It's another name for prison guard.

[SMDzero]

It's another name for prison guard.

I see.

[SMDzero]

While Peter's writing his reply, maybe someone can answer a question that's been bugging me for a while. That whites and blacks thing in America - what's that all about? I've heard the word "cracker" used - did it start with a food fight that some people just couldn't get over?

Well "cracker" is a highly offensive word for a white person in America so we refer to it as "the C-Word"

Of course, between whites, we sometime refer to ourselves as "crucker".

Using "crucker" as a term of endearment is basically a way for us whites to reclaim the "the C-Word" for ourselves.