Does Shenmue stand alone in this regard?

[VGAce]

I agree, cApN, but DAMN. Anger management, dude.

[cApNhOwDy]

No idea what you're talking about dude

[Joe Pesci]

Ahh, I love the art direction. Almost an anime type feel to it, which explains the unlockable comic strips. The graphics are amazing, I don't know why more people don't rip Shenmue off. They seem to rip games like FF and GTA off, but I dunno....

[Staplerfahrer Klaus]

There was a point in my life where I would argue that Shenmue's graphics were still the best on any console. I kept this up until Half Life 2, then I knew I was wrong. But Shenmue will always look beautiful to me, so that's why I'd like Shenmue III to keep the same graphics. Kids these days, all they care about is graphics. It brings my piss to a broil whenever someone bashes a game based on graphics. Everytime I hear it, I want to shove a CD with a burn of 3dsmax on it in their face, point a gun to their heads, and tell them to do better. Then watch them cry as they arent able to, because making pretty graphics is FUCKING HARD. Might as well stop trying to make games prettier and focus more on the ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.

I agree with some of your sentiments, but I'm sick of the "why don't you do better?" arguement. Just because someone can't do better does not mean that they aren't in a position to evaluate the quality of the thing in question. And making "ACTUAL GAMEPLAY" is equally "FUCKING HARD"; there's no excuse for either to be poor. It doesn't matter that a game has relatively crude geometry and textures, but it does matter if the game is ugly. The difference is in the importance of gameplay over graphical detail/quality, of course.

[cApNhOwDy]

But if you're saying that the quality of some game that had graphics that were equivalent to Burnout 3's graphics suck because they're not as good as some other game that had graphics as good as Oblivion's, then I honestly doubt the intelligence of the individual reviewing the game is appreciating the game for what it is. If someone releases a game today that had the graphics of an N64 game on a next-gen console, that's obviously going to condone some harsh scoring for good reason. But if a game like Shenmue were to be released today and it got bashed, then I think people need to care a little bit less about shader models and polygon counts. That's my opinion. And another thing, I honestly think that all this next-gen power should be used to make current gen games load and play smoother. Meaning, I think we're one step ahead of ourselves. Loading times piss me off, that's why I prefer PC gaming. I dont care about graphics as long as I get to play it, graphics means nill to me.

[ShenGCH]

Well, at the time, Shenmue's graphics pwned most other titles, and did so for a long time. Even though we're on the seventh generation game era, and the Dreamcast/Shenmue was sixth generation, I still say that Shenmue's graphics still stand out. I mean, sure, there are some areas of the graphics which aren't perfect, but they are still really good.

[ys]

But if a game like Shenmue were to be released today and it got bashed, then I think people need to care a little bit less about shader models and polygon counts. That's my opinion. And another thing, I honestly think that all this next-gen power should be used to make current gen games load and play smoother. Meaning, I think we're one step ahead of ourselves. Loading times piss me off, that's why I prefer PC gaming. I dont care about graphics as long as I get to play it, graphics means nill to me.

I agree totally. I have often said that graphics from the DC on (the better looking games on it) were adequate enough for me. I felt that it was possible to really get into the world they tried to create from then on. With the amount of detail and graphical level that was available there, characters really started to 'come alive' for my part.

And indeed, instead of having some extra lighting effects here and more realistic shadows there they should use the power for other things. It's a bit like you said, one step ahead of ourselves. The graphics this time didn't make such a spectacular leap anyway compared to how it used to be before. Developers had warned for this beforehand. So in that case it wouldn't have been bad to maybe just have a bit of higher resolution textures but much better control or AI. Instead of having games that look a bit prettier but still have the same 'mistakes' that were there before.

Kids these days do bash too much. It gets really annoying. When looking at Sonic for Wii, I personally think the design looks good. Then I read a few user comments and they're all talking as if their eyes are bleeding looking at it... I mean, seriously. They play a console, think the graphics are good. Then a month later a new console arrives and they act as if it's unbearable to watch all of a sudden

Like this game for Wii, from the makers of Killer 7.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/827/827358.html

Reactions from the kids is that it looks so last-gen, probably because it's not as shiny... They don't seem to get that the developers are going for a special art style.

[Staplerfahrer Klaus]

But if you're saying that the quality of some game that had graphics that were equivalent to Burnout 3's graphics suck because they're not as good as some other game that had graphics as good as Oblivion's, then I honestly doubt the intelligence of the individual reviewing the game is appreciating the game for what it is. If someone releases a game today that had the graphics of an N64 game on a next-gen console, that's obviously going to condone some harsh scoring for good reason. But if a game like Shenmue were to be released today and it got bashed, then I think people need to care a little bit less about shader models and polygon counts. That's my opinion. And another thing, I honestly think that all this next-gen power should be used to make current gen games load and play smoother. Meaning, I think we're one step ahead of ourselves. Loading times piss me off, that's why I prefer PC gaming. I dont care about graphics as long as I get to play it, graphics means nill to me.

Yeah, good clarification, I see exactly what you mean and completely agree. Using the proccessing power of PCs and consoles these days on mechanics could make for some pretty immense games. It's odd how for most games, a huge surplus of CPU cycles go completely unused, or are poorly spent (as far as I'm aware, nobody writes efficient code these days; it's become irrelevant). PC gamers will know that the most important component for playing games these days is the graphics cards. Loading times aren't a big issue for me, but I'm also a PC gamer for a number of other reasons.

[Martin]

The key to Shenmue's enduring beauty, both now and back then, is the unbelievable attention to detail. In this day and age, Shenmue's graphics are aging fast. Alot of the textures are absolutely horrid, the models are basic, some of the animation is starting to look abit wooden compared to newer stuff, etc. But the immediately-apparent love, care, and attention that has gone into Shenmue makes it hold up. In no other game can you look behind a sofa (or whatever) and expect to see something rather than nothing.

Shenmue's world is the complete opposite of sparseness, and blandness. It is a world which positively explodes with rich colour, and detail. The amount of time they spent get every little thing just right is amazing. Sure, the 3D models of stuff in a random antique shop in Shenmue don't look too hot these days, but the pure fact that it's there, and everything in it looks different and unique is really quite brilliant. It's probably one of the only games I can think of where models and textures aren't heavily reused. There's such fantastic variety everywhere you go in Shenmue. Even to the extent where you can waste hours just walking around having a good old look at everything.

It's like a classic old film. Lots of it may look a bit ropey now, but it still manages to look better than anything else. It has something which is not achieved through the latest technology, but is achieved through pure devotion in the creation process. Shenmue was a labour of love, and it shows. It's starting to really age now, but even that seems to add to it's immense charm, somehow. That's the best way I can think of putting it.

[cApNhOwDy]

Someone mentioned programming efficiency, that's another thing that people today forget about. Just as an example, I'm more than certain that there are alot of games with textures being loaded that are impossible to view, they're just out of all camera range. In Counter Strike: Source, the entire map looks ultra-realistic until you die. You go into spectator mode and you can move around the map, and when I look around the map I see alot of areas where there arent any textures, lots of the buildings are half buildings. But that's okay with me because while the round is going, I never see these half-buildings, so it doesnt ever effect actual gameplay. Only in games like Oblivion would it make sense to have a complete model of everything.

[VGAce]

And even Oblivion is efficient in that it reduces texture quality and polygon count of things that are too far off to see in detail. Just throwing that in.

[majin_streater]

If you look at games today tho, they just don't make games like they use to. Every idea has been used, and noone wants to bring new ideas to the table. Shenmue was unique, I mean how many games can you get a job as a forklift driver, buy a soda or go play in an arcade. Its one of a kind.

I was playing shenmue yesterday and i still find that visually it stands against some games now, and its still one fo the only games I've seen where every single person looks different, even the random people walking around, you will never spot the same person twice, and I think it is that, coupled with the great story and fights plus QTE's that makes the Shemue Saga amazing.

[Staplerfahrer Klaus]

Various LOD systems are standard these days, and are not what I was referring to. I was referring to the code that makes up the gameplay/mechanics/etc. Even then, the majority of games today seem to be graphically inefficient as well.

About Oblivion, I was pretty impressed with how well that ran on my antiquated PC.

[code l name]

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread the strength of Shenmue's visuals and design lie in the attention to detail from the games landscape, character designs and even the small, little touches most players would likley be oblivious too.

At the time it really was an amazing technical achivement and I like many Dreamcast owners thought this would become the norm with other future games, which sadly many years on isn't to be the case.