Does Shenmue stand alone in this regard?

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Does Shenmue stand alone in this regard?

Postby combat_rock » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:53 am

I was recently thinking about how well the look of Shenmue holds up today, despite the fact that the technology behind it is now outdated. Basically, it's not the showpiece that it used to be, but it's still very pleasing to look at due to the art direction of the game. There are other games that meet this criteria, however, I can think of none where the art style could be described as "hyper realistic". For example, most of the Final Fantasy games will always be asthetically pleasing to me due to the fantastic character and location design, as will most of the Zelda games, or games that use unique methods such as cell-shading. The world of Shenmue however has none of that going for it, yet is still very asthetically pleasing. It's a testament to the central focus of Shenmue since it helps the immersion factor, and that's what makes Shenmue so compelling in the first place.
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Postby Clint » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:57 am

To me, Shenmue is still one of the most brilliannt graphic adventures out there..

Im fucklking pissed and canr even type. FUck it , ill nbe on tomororow.

Justy remember one thing - Baihu is landi with a mask.
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Postby Twist » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:59 am

The art style is unique from other games because it tries to look realistic as apossed to the 'fantasy' style most game have. That is why it still feels unique today.
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Postby orient » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:22 am

It's not just the realism of Shenmue, but the pure attention to detail that makes it so pleasing to look at. It's the most detailed game ever. Not in texture quality, or in polys, but in the attention and variation of the worlds. If you look at a house in Shenmue, it looks like a real house because the textures are literally pictures of real buildings. The same goes for everything else in the game. If you look at the cardboard box that the cat sits in, or the fenses around houses, they're pictures of the actual thing. Plus, nothing ever seems repetitive. There are no horribly tiled textures. It's truly a masterpiece.

I'd go as far as to say that it's always going to be the best game at holding its own, no matter how out-dated the graphics. Better than LoZ: A Link To The Past, Final Fantasy 7 & 9, Gears of War, anything.
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Postby Staplerfahrer Klaus » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:59 pm

Shenmue's visual style is very pleasing, and quite hard to place. If you take a close look at the textures, they look pretty amateur in comparison to those in many games, yet something about them and the way they're applied makes the game look almost realistic. Maybe they just approached it with common sense. In the past, 3D graphics were too "clean", but then the artists started making everything totally dilapidated, which is equally unconvincing. Shenmue strikes a good balance. Also, none of the textures have a great amount of definition, which also somehow just "works".

I'd say the main reason is the "completeness". I've seen geometry and textures in games that are detailed, and correct in form, and with realistic textures, yet they still fail to convince. I think it's because Shenmue shows you everything you'd expect to see (in someone's house, on the street, etc.).

EDIT- Oh, and I totally agree with orient's post, especially the last part.
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Postby Henry Spencer » Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:12 pm

Clint wrote:To me, Shenmue is still one of the most brilliannt graphic adventures out there..

Im fucklking pissed and canr even type. FUck it , ill nbe on tomororow.

Justy remember one thing - Baihu is landi with a mask.


Been at the ol'd bottle, eh Clint? ;) Merry Christmas and all that. :lol:

Back ont topic; I really do think Shenmue I and II are the two best looking games for the Dreamcast. About those other games you listed though, I disagree, even though I am a big fan of Zelda and like Final Fantasy VIII a lot I have to say, the game's graphics are definitely not one of the game's strengths. Every game has it's flaw though, doesn't it? ;)
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Postby ys » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:35 pm

Staplerfahrer Klaus wrote:Shenmue's visual style is very pleasing, and quite hard to place. If you take a close look at the textures, they look pretty amateur in comparison to those in many games, yet something about them and the way they're applied makes the game look almost realistic. Maybe they just approached it with common sense. In the past, 3D graphics were too "clean", but then the artists started making everything totally dilapidated, which is equally unconvincing. Shenmue strikes a good balance. Also, none of the textures have a great amount of definition, which also somehow just "works".

I'd say the main reason is the "completeness". I've seen geometry and textures in games that are detailed, and correct in form, and with realistic textures, yet they still fail to convince. I think it's because Shenmue shows you everything you'd expect to see (in someone's house, on the street, etc.).

EDIT- Oh, and I totally agree with orient's post, especially the last part.

I believe Shenmue is an example of great Japanese game design. Many have said this. The Western world often has more technologically impressive games. The Japanese ones in general are often more balanced and do more with what they have. I read an article about this before, written by developers. For example Shadow of the Colossus. The developers cut back on details during certain moments to be able to have other things flow better. Things they knew we wouldn't look at as much right then. Western developers would've just let it all on all the time generally. Resulting in something that doesn't run as well overall. They said that this was a bit more typical of Japanese developers. Western ones would often start development with the intention of pushing the boundaries of the hardware from the beginning. Unlike the Japanese who started with the idea of how they could realize the idea they had in the best possible way.

One of the things with Shenmue is that the world looks alive. Because of the way the houses look. I thought of this in Oblivion for example. The cities there don't really seem alive. In Shenmue, houses are placed like they would in real life. They also have somewhat different architecture. In Oblivion then it feels kind of unnatural. They're too similar. With most of them just gathered in straight blocks without many unregular spaces in between them. It's a bit hard to explain but I think you could get my point.

The perspective is also awesome in Shenmue I think. Houses and people don't look wrong all of a sudden when you look up. Something many games have while at the same time having impressive texturing. So indeed, it's probably the magnificent balance of it all. The detail, texture work, placing and architecture of the houses etc.
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Postby Captain Lars Kegstealer » Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:10 pm

Clint wrote:Justy remember one thing - Baihu is landi with a mask.


That would be cool, if that was the story.
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Postby Milky Joe » Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:30 pm

Clint wrote:
Justy remember one thing - Baihu is landi with a mask.


ROFL-FUCKING-COPTER sigged bitch :D
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Postby Staplerfahrer Klaus » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:36 pm

ys wrote:I believe Shenmue is an example of great Japanese game design. Many have said this. The Western world often has more technologically impressive games. The Japanese ones in general are often more balanced and do more with what they have...

It's not a bad explanation of the differences between the general styles used by Western and Japanese artists, but I disagree about the Japanese art being superior in the ways that you mention (game art from both regions is equally likely to strike a poor balance). I do agree with the rest of your post, though.
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Postby ys » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:24 pm

Well, I was merely mentioning some points other developers made. I myself generally prefer the "Japanese" art style but I assume it's just a matter of taste. I also agree with the article though. When they talk about how they look differently at the technology they're working with. How they usually approach building a game. That's also why the Japanese preferred to write own game engines. To really tailor it to what they had in mind. Instead of having extra code running for no prupose in a premade engine.

What was interesting was that the people who made Shadow of the Colossus and Kojima for example were impressed by Halflife 2. To just name one game. While many Western developers were really impressed by how the Japanese made some games, hehe.
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Postby Staplerfahrer Klaus » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:38 pm

^ Oh, fair enough. I personally don't have any preference between the two styles. Most impressive technical achievements, and the most beautiful games are usually made for a purpose-built engine. I'd like to point out that all developers would prefer to use their own game engine, but the resources available usually don't permit anything that grand. I doubt that there's a higher proportion of purpose-made engine use in Japan (I'm sure it's much the same as here, where almost all games made are completely unoriginal and unnecessary).
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Postby ThyDarkAngel » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:24 pm

Yes, Shenmue is still (and will ever be) a beautifull piece of art to look at, even when compared to other more graphically advanced games out there these days.
It is really due to the detail, to the 'soul' of the engine and the art direction, to the beauty of the designs and the amount of heart put on it.
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Postby Virtua Hazuki » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:34 pm

I am quite impressed by how Shenmue has stood against the passing of time. Shenmue's realism and its attention to detail, its art design are the reasons for this, which you guys have mentioned. Graphics will improve in future generations, but few developers will try to go to into as much immaculate detail as AM2 did with Shenmue.

Skies of Arcadia to a lesser extent has also, while not at all based on realism, it has a lovely art design which has aged quite well, whether it be the the forest of Ixa'Taka or the ancient city of Soltis.
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Postby cApNhOwDy » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:20 pm

There was a point in my life where I would argue that Shenmue's graphics were still the best on any console. I kept this up until Half Life 2, then I knew I was wrong. But Shenmue will always look beautiful to me, so that's why I'd like Shenmue III to keep the same graphics. Kids these days, all they care about is graphics. It brings my piss to a broil whenever someone bashes a game based on graphics. Everytime I hear it, I want to shove a CD with a burn of 3dsmax on it in their face, point a gun to their heads, and tell them to do better. Then watch them cry as they arent able to, because making pretty graphics is FUCKING HARD. Might as well stop trying to make games prettier and focus more on the ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.
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