Random Shenmue Thoughts

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby AnimeGamer183 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:24 pm

Am I the only one that thinks the recent Shenmue figures look shit?
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:52 pm

AnimeGamer183 wrote: Am I the only one that thinks the recent Shenmue figures look shit?


Huh, Lan Di F4F?

I thought he looks pretty awesome.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby south carmain » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:03 pm

Yeah I always thought the Ryo one looked kinda odd, not bad but his face seemed a bit off. The Lan Di one though looks great.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Amir » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:21 am

Man, going through this GAF thread is a rollercoaster of emotions: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1062734

Fast-forward to page 45 if you want to see the moment when Shenmue III is announced, but starting from the mid-20s really lets you relive the hesitant anticipation before E3.

What a time to be alive.

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:34 am

Amir wrote: Man, going through this GAF thread is a rollercoaster of emotions: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1062734

Fast-forward to page 45 if you want to see the moment when Shenmue III is announced, but starting from the mid-20s really lets you relive the hesitant anticipation before E3.

What a time to be alive.

Heh, seeing my own posts on page 45 was fun.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby johnvivant » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:47 am

has anyone ever tried translating the talisman on the desk which was blocking the wall when you find the phoenix mirror?

Ryo says 'this.. its seems to be sealed'.
i'm wondering whether it contained a spell to the seal the phoenix mirror's magic, or prevent magic being used to find it. it would be interesting to know what it actually says.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby johnvivant » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:37 am

i know in the beta version of shenmue Ryo's duvet on his bed has an old ship's steering wheel in-printed on it, but what is the design in the final version?
its rare that his bed is actually made so it mostly cant be seen, but occasionally it is made, although i still can't work out what the design is.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby OL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:14 pm

Giorgio wrote: People telling Shenmue fans that are blinded by nostalgia. I guess those people are blinded by stupidness. Also, those people consume the thoughts of others, without making their own. They can't think for themselves. They are so shallow and narrow-minded (and mind-numbed), who of course cannot understand and feel the APPEAL Shenmue has on the fans. When something is deep and requires you to philosophize on it, you cannot expect airheads to give it the green light.

Furthermore, the term "nostalgia" is their cliche explanation on why fans love a game, who the former cannot appreciate in the slightest. Personally, I love Shenmue not because of nostalgia, but because it's the only interactive audiovisual experience that touches my symbolic heart. It lets you feel human in a virtua reality space. It evokes emotions on you, which are of empathetic and uplifting nature.

Additionally, it's a portal to another cultures (and history, geography, mythology, wisdom etc), those of Japan and China, and lets you learn and experience that interactively, without you actually visiting those places. I can feel free, in a open world, to explore the sights and inspect the minute crafted details, without being forced or chased. Especially, it is a play-space/story-world of teaching morality/ethos. Finally, the mundane/everyday and familiar/ordinary are elements that you can really identify with in your life.


What's so bad about nostalgia?
It's so often stigmatically talked about like it's some kind of negative angle on a person's opinions, but I find it's just as much a legitimate reason to love something as anything else. It's all about one's personal experiences and the fond memories they have of them. So where's the negative part?
I'd honestly say some of the greatest feelings I've ever had -- the ones that made me the happiest in those particular moments -- were nostalgic feelings. Nostalgia is a beautiful thing, specifically because no one else can fully understand it in quite the same way as you do. It's yours. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, just so long as the nostalgia can be separated from objective analysis. You can have a favorite game, and still recognize that it's not necessarily the "best" ever made. There's never anything wrong with that. If nostalgia is half the reason you love something, then so be it.
I can't say I necessarily agree with you on all points about Shenmue (non-fans aren't against the game because they can't wrap their heads around depth or philosophy; games like Shadow of the Colossus or Bioshock wouldn't hold the level of prestige they do if that were the case), but don't get too upset about talk of nostalgia; it's a good thing. If someone else doesn't get it, you can just tell them it's personal. Because it really is.

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:03 pm

OL wrote:
Giorgio wrote: People telling Shenmue fans that are blinded by nostalgia. I guess those people are blinded by stupidness. Also, those people consume the thoughts of others, without making their own. They can't think for themselves. They are so shallow and narrow-minded (and mind-numbed), who of course cannot understand and feel the APPEAL Shenmue has on the fans. When something is deep and requires you to philosophize on it, you cannot expect airheads to give it the green light.

Furthermore, the term "nostalgia" is their cliche explanation on why fans love a game, who the former cannot appreciate in the slightest. Personally, I love Shenmue not because of nostalgia, but because it's the only interactive audiovisual experience that touches my symbolic heart. It lets you feel human in a virtua reality space. It evokes emotions on you, which are of empathetic and uplifting nature.

Additionally, it's a portal to another cultures (and history, geography, mythology, wisdom etc), those of Japan and China, and lets you learn and experience that interactively, without you actually visiting those places. I can feel free, in a open world, to explore the sights and inspect the minute crafted details, without being forced or chased. Especially, it is a play-space/story-world of teaching morality/ethos. Finally, the mundane/everyday and familiar/ordinary are elements that you can really identify with in your life.


What's so bad about nostalgia?
It's so often stigmatically talked about like it's some kind of negative angle on a person's opinions, but I find it's just as much a legitimate reason to love something as anything else. It's all about one's personal experiences and the fond memories they have of them. So where's the negative part?
I'd honestly say some of the greatest feelings I've ever had -- the ones that made me the happiest in those particular moments -- were nostalgic feelings. Nostalgia is a beautiful thing, specifically because no one else can fully understand it in quite the same way as you do. It's yours. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that, just so long as the nostalgia can be separated from objective analysis. You can have a favorite game, and still recognize that it's not necessarily the "best" ever made. There's never anything wrong with that. If nostalgia is half the reason you love something, then so be it.
I can't say I necessarily agree with you on all points about Shenmue (non-fans aren't against the game because they can't wrap their heads around depth or philosophy; games like Shadow of the Colossus or Bioshock wouldn't hold the level of prestige they do if that were the case), but don't get too upset about talk of nostalgia; it's a good thing. If someone else doesn't get it, you can just tell them it's personal. Because it really is.



That's because, it "is" a negative.

Nostalgia has no baring on reviewing something at all, and when people give stuff unwarranted credit, just because they watched or played something as a kid, they discredit the entire review.

Look at DBZ for the damage Nostalgia can lead to, they all know DBZ is a utter POS, and if you list all the bad things about it, they'll even admit to such(that's how bad DBZ is, It's so bad, its faults can't be denied), yet they still will rate it as one of the best anime ever made. Furthermore, look at these people's list of anime they have watched, pretty much anyone who praises DBZ, has non-existent quality standards, and It's all because of Nostalgia over DBZ.

We're lucky that Shenmue is shielded against such, as the nostalgia claim doesn't really apply to it(It's unique, and nothing else ever made is even similar to such, plus the quality overall is above most games even made today, so the outdated argument doesn't apply either).
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby OL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:23 pm

Did you even read what I said?
I specifically said that as long as a person can separate nostalgia from objective analysis, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it (while you're going on as if no one ever admits flaws when nostalgia is involved; not true at all). If a person can admit DBZ's faults but still likes it anyway, what's the problem? They're perfectly free to enjoy it if it makes them feel good. There's nothing negative about that.
Nostalgia with a level head is an amazing thing, and I don't get why people try to shove it away constantly, like we have to be robots and only like things that are agreed upon as being objectively "good." I say savor your personal experiences. If Superman 64 is your favorite game despite it's flaws, because it was the only game you had as a kid and it makes you remember the good times, then shucks to anyone who hates it; you value it on a personal level, so why try to push that nostalgia away?
There are those who can't separate nostalgia from objectivity, obviously, but they're easy to pick out from the crowd anyway (and I'd actually include a large percentage of Shenmue fans in there as well).

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:01 pm

OL wrote: Did you even read what I said?
I specifically said that as long as a person can separate nostalgia from objective analysis, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it (while you're going on as if no one ever admits flaws when nostalgia is involved; not true at all). If a person can admit DBZ's faults but still likes it anyway, what's the problem? They're perfectly free to enjoy it if it makes them feel good. There's nothing negative about that.
Nostalgia with a level head is an amazing thing, and I don't get why people try to shove it away constantly, like we have to be robots and only like things that are agreed upon as being objectively "good." I say savor your personal experiences. If Superman 64 is your favorite game despite it's flaws, because it was the only game you had as a kid and it makes you remember the good times, then shucks to anyone who hates it; you value it on a personal level, so why try to push that nostalgia away?
There are those who can't separate nostalgia from objectivity, obviously, but they're easy to pick out from the crowd anyway (and I'd actually include a large percentage of Shenmue fans in there as well).


Nolstalgia can't be separated or it wouldn't be nolstalgia in the first place.

If someone wants to cling on to something because they feel nostolgic for something, fine, but then they shouldn't ever be the people suggesting whatever to someone or writing reviews about such.


Noone says you have to agree to popular opinion, but you really should keep everything to the facts, and be very descriptive about such as well, to back up why you think whatever it is, you think. Even any final supposedly opinion based statement should be based off of those facts alone, nolstagia should not factor in anything at all.


That it is, painfully easy at that, but I doubt that everyone has the foresight, me, and other vets have.

I always thought it was weird, for someone to like something because of nolstalgia. Being nolstalgic for something, does not in any way, shape or form, make such good/have anything to do with the quality of such.
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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby BlueMue » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:23 pm

johnvivant wrote: has anyone ever tried translating the talisman on the desk which was blocking the wall when you find the phoenix mirror?

Ryo says 'this.. its seems to be sealed'.
i'm wondering whether it contained a spell to the seal the phoenix mirror's magic, or prevent magic being used to find it. it would be interesting to know what it actually says.

This is intersting and I'd like to know about this too. I've made a very high-res screenshot of the talisman.
It's still rather pixelated as the texture just doesn't have much resolution but hopefully it's enough to read the smaller characters. Is this maybe even written mirrored, so it looks normal when you spot it in the mirror?

Image

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Amir » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:32 pm

Going through an old Assembler Games thread, found a few bits on Shenmue from DonnyK, the guy who leaked Sonic Extreme and Geist Force:

"I'll tell you this. We had a final, tested, and approved Shenmue 2 for the US that was scraped and never came out. The producer came around and got ever single burn and returned them to SOJ." - http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/old ... 214/page-2

"US Shenmue was the same as the PAL version wtih American localized text (color vs colour) kind of thing." - http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/old ... 214/page-5 [I did note while playing the UK version though that it used the US spelling "traveler"]

Later on a guy named Super Magnetic chimes in; this guy would later try to auction a Sega Pluto (a Sega Saturn/Netlink hybrid of which only 2 were ever made):

"Shenmue was such a massive (and miserable, if you ask people who worked on it) production, and things changed so much over the course of development, that things probably just got moved around in the timeline. Shenmue was really a beast of a project, and none of my SOJ friends have anything good to say about working on it, unfortunately... it was basically a development meat grinder, and the only person who could probably answer questions about the Shenmue timeline is Yu-san." - http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/old ... 14/page-17


Unrelated to Shenmue, was surprised to hear that a top-down RPG was being developed... for the VMU!:

"there was a game I was directly working on -- "Shadows of Defiance," an RPG for the VMU. We got as far as making a world map and having a semi-running prototype before the plug got pulled. The code is long-gone, sad to say." - http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/old ... 14/page-18

I did a quick Google and could only find these comments from Alexander Villagran who was a Senior Software Engineer at SegaSoft:

"AlexV: Right now the company called Access has developed DreamPassport for Japan, and DreamKey for Europe. When version 3.0 of DreamPassport is unveiled, I am sure that they will make a European version as well. I am working closely with PlanetWeb to offer the 2.0 version of the Browser (and possibly even earlier versions), to European software developers. It will be up to them to determine if they want to use it. There are some nice features that will be coming soon on Dreamcast Network. Once such feature is SegaPD under the 'Games' Area. We will start discussing on how to make an RPG. We will start with the initial design phase. Once that is complete, playable prototypes will then be released on the site so you can see what we are making as we make it. Eventually after following the whole saga you will have episode 1 of Shadows of Defiance!" - http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/games/ ... rt%201.htm

"DCMann2 asked: What will the vmu rpg be like?

AlexV: Shadows of Defiance will be an episode based RPG. It will be Zelda like, where you see yourself from a top down view. Probably more like Final Fantasy 6 (or 3 for US). You can fight monsters, build up your character. Go on quests. Great stuff. It will be a totally free game, and Episode one will be available for everyone. Episode 2 through 6 will be released on the Dreamcast Magazine, and once VMU upload is in the Browser 2.0, it will also be available on DCN. Of course we will release on DCN two months after it has been on Dreamcast Magazine. They will always get the exclusive! I have heard rumors... that there is a secret Episode 7, if key things were done correctly in Episodes 1 through 6. I will need to play with the technology, but I might even get some 3D dungeon action going!" - http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/games/ ... rt%202.htm

I assume by 3D he means 2D from a first-person view?

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby OL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:59 pm

Zoltor wrote:Nolstalgia can't be separated or it wouldn't be nolstalgia in the first place.


Nostalgia is just a fondness for the past. It can easily be separated from so-called "facts."
I'm nostalgic for the Genesis Jurassic Park game, but I still recognize that, playing it now, it's a buggy mess. How is that not separating nostalgia from the truth?
I know the truth of it, and I can tell others that if they're playing it for the first time now, they probably won't like it. And yet, I'm still capable of enjoying it on a personal level.
If you aren't capable of separating things in that way, it's your problem. I have no problem with it, and I know a number of members on here who don't seem to either.


Zoltor wrote:If someone wants to cling on to something because they feel nostolgic for something, fine, but then they shouldn't ever be the people suggesting whatever to someone or writing reviews about such.


:lol:
As if there needs to be some kind of system in place to separate the biased from the "fact"-focused robots.
Everyone is free to suggest whatever they want. Everyone has opinions, everyone is free to share them. It's up to the person listening to decide whether it's worth heeding those suggestions.


Zoltor wrote:I always thought it was weird, for someone to like something because of nolstalgia.


:-s
Okay, now I'm convinced you just have no idea what nostalgia is in the first place.
You don't like something because of nostalgia. Nostalgia is a fondness already in place. It's about already liking something, or rather, enjoying the memories of your time with it.
Hate to break it to you, but if you played Shenmue years ago and it still makes you feel something special, you're nostalgic for it. That's all the word implies.

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Re: Random Shenmue Thoughts

Postby Zoltor » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:04 pm

To Amir:

What I would like to know, are who is so called friends at SOJ are, because I find it hard to believe people had nothing nice to say about working on it.

His statement might've made sense if the development team was super small, but it wasn't. Every person had a "specific" task to do, but the way he makes it sound like, each person had to do like 50 people worth of the work or that Yu was a slave driver(lol which I think we all know, Yu couldn't act like that, if his life depended on it).

Nevermind the fact that the games the produced, ended up being so special, that even 14-16 years later, people are still talking about them. I don't buy that people involved in such a huge project, that led to the creation of two very special games, would have nothing nice to say about working on such.

To OL: none of which, should ever be a reason to like such. The reason to like such should only be based off of the factual quality of the aspects involving what they are claiming to like.

Also by the way, people very much will like something, for no other reason then nostalgia. There's a lot of reasons people look back fondly on something, that literally has nothing to do with anything involving the actual thing they are trying to claim they like.

Nostalgia deserves every bi of the stigma tied to the term.
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