Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

(Chapter 1 | General Series Discussion)

Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Himuro » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:18 pm

Shenmue II disc 1 is way better than Shenmue I disc 1 as well as 2 for me. Wude, Xiuying, Jianmin;etc.

The disc 1 of Shenmue II is far more eventful and interesting than all of Shenmue 1 disc 1 from a story point of view.

In terms of atmosphere, Shenmue 1 always wins. But as said before, different games and different goals.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Henry Spencer » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:08 am

Shenmue's intro (Iwao's death which sets off the entire path of of vengeance) and most of the locations/characters are introduced on Disc 1 of Shenmue 1, so, I'd say it was kinda important. ;-)
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Shibiryo » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:18 am

Henry Spencer wrote: Shenmue's intro (Iwao's death which sets off the entire path of of vengeance) and most of the locations/characters are introduced on Disc 1 of Shenmue 1, so, I'd say it was kinda important. ;-)

Exactly.

Himuro, I puked. Shenmue 2 disc 1 is unbelievably short as fuck and is the weakest disc in Shenmue history. Henry said why shenmue 1 disc 1 has the most important story related stuff and I agree.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Yokosuka » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:07 pm

Shibiryo wrote:but instead goofing around with Fangmei and Joy.


:rotflmao: I love how people can have different interpretations of the same thing. With Shenhua and Ming Ming, there is a possibility that can get worse. :P
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Himuro » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:20 pm

Shenmue II's first disc isn't short as fuck. It's actually about the same length as Shenmue I's first disc, if only a little shorter. I can get to the point where you talk to Tony and the guys about Charlie in a day. After that you wait another day, talk to the tattoo guy, and wait another day. After that, you can get off the first disc. In II, it's impossible to get all the Wude in a day, and if you save transferred from 1, you need to speed up time via the barbershop any ways. Disc 1 can be beaten in two or three days in game time, but disc 1 in I isn't that much longer. Especially when you consider that most of it is padding. For example, when you come to the tattoo parlor you have to wait a day to wake up Charlie and then wait ANOTHER day for him and his guys to jump you, when only one encounter at the parlor was ever necessary. Shenmue I disc 1 is padded to hell and and back yet barely anything of note happens. Beyond the intro and some story information, it's easily the weakest disc in the series.

Henry Spencer wrote: Shenmue's intro (Iwao's death which sets off the entire path of of vengeance) and most of the locations/characters are introduced on Disc 1 of Shenmue 1, so, I'd say it was kinda important. ;-)


I'll agree with that.

I still like disc 1 of II more.

Waiting for Charlie sucks. WUDE, however, is far more pivotal and important towards Ryo's development than waiting two days to get to Charlie. Are you arguing that Wide, something that Xiuying clearly tells Ryo that he lacks, and hints at his potential downfall, is NOT important for Ryo in his general character development?

Shenmue I has the opening cutscene, but most of the meat and potatoes of Shenmue I's story are disc 2 and 3. Disc 1 is about getting to the harbor. There's practically nothing substantial in the way of the story telling on disc 1 besides the intro cutscenes, the flashbacks, and Ryo telling Fuku he's going to try to kill Lan Di.

The rest: asking about men in black suits, asking about three blades, asking about sailors, Charlie, have nothing compared to Shenmie II's character and plot development: Wude, Ryo's lacking in his martial art, his lack of discipline, his now wavering respect for people (interrupting Jianmin when he's trying to teach Ryo, Ryo interrupting Xiuying and screaming at her), his potential future and potential death, and the general ocean he has thrust upon himself.

I take it waiting for Charlie for three days is more important than all of that? In I, Ryo's character is pretty static. In Disc 1 of II he's starting to become arrogant and disrespectful, and completely lacking in patience. Disc 1 of II contains the main story fabric of II and the entire stories: which is essentially whether Ryo will destroy himself in his revenge and whether or not he is capable of being a martial arts master.

For all of these reasons, Shenmue II disc 1 is among the most important discs in the franchise. It's not as important as I disc 2 or II disc 2 or II disc 3 or even 4, but in the grand scheme of Ryo's character development this is when the blocks start tumbling over for sure.

You've already said you don't rate Wan Chai too highly on Shenmue locales. I personally prefer it to Kowloon. So it's not surprising you wouldn't like disc 1 of II. But brass to tacks, in order of a story importance, II's second disc is far more important in the grand scheme of evolving the storyline than the majority of I put together. I'll chalk it up as people preferring environment and locale and using locale as an objective argument as to why something is better or weaker.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Shibiryo » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:13 pm

Can't argue against any of that Himuro, good points but I like replaying Shenmue 1 more than 2 just due to the greater emphasis on the atmosphere and for me, I repeat for me.. It is a little more cozier where Ryo is closer to home and his first friends.

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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Himuro » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:25 pm

Makes a lot of sense. I go back and forth between the two for the same reason.

When people ask what my favorite game is, I just say Shenmue 1 and 2. It's hard for me to separate them and I flip flop on which one I prefer almost every other playthrough.

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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Yokosuka » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:13 pm

IMO, Shenmue 2 is better than the original for a simple reason : the number of iconic moments. Just three or four scenes in Shenmue 1 were memorable (the find of the mirror, the motorcycle, the mad angels final fight and the intro) whereas I can't list for Shenmue II because there were so much (catching leafs, shenhua, the yuan's chainsaw, baihu, the barber, ghost hall, all the hilarious moments with Ren, Xuying, etc.)

However, the crescendo feeling in the Shenmue I 3rd disc is still priceless.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby xbluemystx » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:32 pm

I've always disagreed with this. Shenmue II is just as beautiful. Some people just can't get past the overwhelming homesick feeling it has - he's literally homeless in it. Maybe the music was better in the first and some of the areas more memorable but... nope nope nope. I've always been mindboggled that there's quite a few fans who prefer the first one.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby Himuro » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:51 pm

Sometimes you're in a mood for that close to home feeling, so I play 1 when that need comes. Sometimes I want something to challenge my thinking, so I play 2. I find 2 is really great at helping finding a center. The core themes of the story are really relatable even if you're not hell bent on trying to kill a guy for revenge.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby joka » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:14 pm

I always find it odd that they're compared if I'm honest- I see them as one big game that just happen to be over 2 retail releases.

A lot of Shenmue 2 was made under Shenmue 1's development anyway wasn't it (hence why when Shenmue was first revealed a lot of the games shots were from Wan Chai, Kowloon, Guilin) which blurs them even more in my opinion.

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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby fittersau » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:44 pm

I love both games. For me one aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet that edges Shenmue 1 over Shenmue 2 is the music.

Shenmue 1's music is entirely beautiful whereas Shenmue 2 had some rather forgettable tunes.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby xbluemystx » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:41 pm

Eh, I guess everything is subjective... but, come on, everything about the sequel was improved. I think it's ridiculous that people like the first more. The rooftop scene alone is better than everything that both games combined have to offer.

fittersau wrote: I love both games. For me one aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet that edges Shenmue 1 over Shenmue 2 is the music.

Shenmue 1's music is entirely beautiful whereas Shenmue 2 had some rather forgettable tunes.


Heh, I mentioned it.

I'm about to play the OST, as a matter of fact. Always gets me so emotional.
Last edited by xbluemystx on Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby BigTuna » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:49 pm

Shenmue II just doesn't have the charm the first game has. While it is still a great game, I much prefer the first to the sequel. It'll be interesting to see what they do with 3. I really can't wait to hear more about that game. I hope it's more like the first, I wanna feel like I'm home again.
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Re: Why is Shenmue 1 so different to the sequel?

Postby fittersau » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:49 am

BigTuna wrote: Shenmue II just doesn't have the charm the first game has. While it is still a great game, I much prefer the first to the sequel. It'll be interesting to see what they do with 3. I really can't wait to hear more about that game. I hope it's more like the first, I wanna feel like I'm home again.


I think we need to give Shenmue 3 a chance to be it's own game. So much time has passed and Suzuki would be keen to try new things he's been thinking about. I'm sure we'll see things we are familiar with however, there will not be a place like Yokosuka again in Shenmue 3 as Suzuki has already mentioned. I don't even know if Ryo will ever get back to Japan given the 11 chapter card reveal at GDC 2014.
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