Voting For Mods

[Sailors?]

[ys]

This place has really had its share of mod issues/power abuse over the years.

[Neo Matrix]

yeah mods shouldn't be people that are liked by the members unless if he is 100% suitable for the job or they will just let him get away with things until it becomes ridiculously blatant, though on the other hand we could vote if the wherever to take the mod down or not after a series of infractions

That's a bad way to do it too. Just as easily could someone be voted in for popularity, if a mod annoys the wrong person the whole bandwagon would rally against them to throw them out. Just say no to votes...

Permissions have to be looked at too, I don't understand why a global mod was able to do any modding or demodding, especially of someone at the same rank (if my reading of the earlier situation was correct). That kind of stuff should always be down to the administrator.

Ryudo was administrator alongside Yama. More permissions than Peter and OL (less than Yama, I'm guessing.)

Ah, that explains it then. I had got the impression he was a global mod like Peter. I couldn't guess how identical the permissions would be compared to Yama, probably the same forum-wise.

The forums display the team as:

• Mr. Rod - Coder
• Master Kyodai - Global moderator
• Sean - Shenmue Dojo News and Updates
• Ziming Veteran - Shenmue Dojo News and Updates
• OL - ???

Yeah the thing OL is known for supplying the dojo with is a closely kept shenmue dojo deep dark secret...

I'm sure I posted about this in a help forum or something a while back, but Show/Hide images don't show up for me at all!

*Uses Quote to Copy/Paste into address bar*

So it's OL as in Office Lady?

[south carmain]

yeah mods shouldn't be people that are liked by the members unless if he is 100% suitable for the job or they will just let him get away with things until it becomes ridiculously blatant, though on the other hand we could vote if the wherever to take the mod down or not after a series of infractions

That's a bad way to do it too. Just as easily could someone be voted in for popularity, if a mod annoys the wrong person the whole bandwagon would rally against them to throw them out. Just say no to votes...

if the majority of the community will rally against him then what's the point of him staying anyway? I'm talking about after a series of blatant infractions here not because he gave someone a warning

[Crimson Ryan]

if the majority of the community will rally against him then what's the point of him staying anyway? I'm talking about after a series of blatant infractions here not because he gave someone a warning

Be in the same situation we're in now with skeleton staff.

[south carmain]

exactly, but now the only reason ryudo left is because he decided too, this situation happened lots of times before but only a few would voice the opinions that everyone was thinking while the others were too scared to be banned or didn't want to partake in the drama, by calling on the vote we can see what everyone thinks and if the moderator should be banned or not and therefore not leaving them the option to lock the topic and make a gay joke to save themselves

[Neo Matrix]

Are you talking abou them staying on the site or staying as staff?

It wouldn't take the majority of the community to do it, simply the vocal minority. Imagine we have 100 members, the mod angers 1, who then gets his 15 or so friends to start a vote. You have their votes for a demodding, plus the members who know the friends against those who aren't into forum politics (most likely over 60%) who don't vote or just abstain because they don't really care or don't know what's going on. You then have a possible 90% vote victory but with a turnout of around 30%. Doesn't seem fair.

If the actual majority rallied against anyone (normal member or staff alike) it had better be for a good reason. It's a community that shouldn't look to bully anyone off a site (which seems to be happening now in small circles to make sure Ryudo stays away).

Any disputes with staff (power abuse etc.) should just be taken up directly with the next one on the ladder, meaning Yama, who will probably have set up his own discipline system for staff just in case. Not votes...

[Crimson Ryan]

I'm sure I posted about this in a help forum or something a while back, but Show/Hide images don't show up for me at all!

Had a quick look but can't find the topic. Update/change browsers?

Any disputes with staff (power abuse etc.) should just be taken up directly with the next one on the ladder, meaning Yama, who will probably have set up his own discipline system for staff just in case. Not votes...

What I had to do a few times in the past. I've never been keen on making disciplinary issues 'public'..

[south carmain]

Are you talking abou them staying on the site or staying as staff?

It wouldn't take the majority of the community to do it, simply the vocal minority. Imagine we have 100 members, the mod angers 1, who then gets his 15 or so friends to start a vote. You have their votes for a demodding, plus the members who know the friends against those who aren't into forum politics (most likely over 60%) who don't vote or just abstain because they don't really care or don't know what's going on. You then have a possible 90% vote victory but with a turnout of around 30%. Doesn't seem fair.

If the actual majority rallied against anyone (normal member or staff alike) it had better be for a good reason. It's a community that shouldn't look to bully anyone off a site (which seems to be happening now in small circles to make sure Ryudo stays away).

Any disputes with staff (power abuse etc.) should just be taken up directly with the next one on the ladder, meaning Yama, who will probably have set up his own discipline system for staff just in case. Not votes...

read my post above, if we had the ability to vote ryudo would of gone a long time ago, but because of the failure to take action we were stuck with him forcing the end of topics and to give warnings/bans to anyone who would talk out against him, this forum is being kept alive by the money given by members it's only right that they have the ability to change things, Yama can't moderate the site all the time he has work and a personal life, also what you're saying can work both ways, this is exactly the reason ryudo stayed so long is because people supported him in his bad decisions, I'm not talking about doing a vote on the press of a button, rather once he steps out of line the proof is sent to yama then yama decides on a vote to see what the community wants

this way Yama can judge if action should be taken and the community can decide so that yama doesn't get a backlash like he did before when he tried to change things

it's not that much different than the judge/jury system I'm proposing really

[Neo Matrix]

You didn't read my reply in full then... disputes such as the one you had should get referred to Yama as you just said. No vote needed, he takes action as he sees fit... and he saw fit to keep him on because that's what people asked him to do.

well it wasn't really Yama, it was mostly members who would give him lots of chances and yama would see it as something the community wants, can't blame yama after the shitstorm he got after trying to make the website more family friendly

Bingo.

Actually, it's what you said and Yama confirmed. That sounds like your vote/opinion poll system to me. He's the administrator, so as long as he doesn't get drunk with power himself we will be fine leaving the decisions to him, won't we?

I'm sure I posted about this in a help forum or something a while back, but Show/Hide images don't show up for me at all!

Had a quick look but can't find the topic. Update/change browsers?

I thought the same thing, but with this particular computer I can't update or install another browser as I don't have the permissions. I'm using IE 8.0.6 though.

Any disputes with staff (power abuse etc.) should just be taken up directly with the next one on the ladder, meaning Yama, who will probably have set up his own discipline system for staff just in case. Not votes...

[What I had to do a few times in the past. I've never been keen on making disciplinary issues 'public'..

Yes, I forgot that point, airing dirty laundry is never a good thing on a forum as it's always remembered and linked back to years down the line when it doesn't matter much anymore.

[south carmain]

You didn't read my reply in full then... disputes such as the one you had should get referred to Yama as you just said. No vote needed, he takes action as he sees fit... and he saw fit to keep him on because that's what people asked him to do.

well it wasn't really Yama, it was mostly members who would give him lots of chances and yama would see it as something the community wants, can't blame yama after the shitstorm he got after trying to make the website more family friendly

Bingo.

Actually, it's what you said and Yama confirmed. That sounds like your vote/opinion poll system to me. He's the administrator, so as long as he doesn't get drunk with power himself we will be fine leaving the decisions to him, won't we?

no because he doesn't follow the site 24/7, he is unaware of most that happens here that is why I'm proposing this system, I fail to see what you got out of him confirming not wanting to change anything because of the backlash of the community, let me explain this properly because you're getting confused

-only person who can demote is Yama now
-yama is not on the website all the time, he has another website, personal life and work so he can't moderate the community properly, he doesn't know if someone stepped out of line unless if there is an uproar and he is called to come in
-he doen't want to make changes that will piss off the community
-when a mod is being a dick it's a small minority who support him but they are the loudest so it seems to yama that these are the majority while in fact other members have stopped posting or cant be assed to post about it or are scared to be banned (see drama a few weeks ago)

therefore by implementing this system the quieter ones have their say and when a decision is made the last voice is by the community so Yama can distance himself from any kind of backlash from the community

-mod acts out of line
-member sends proof to yama
-yama decides if it's worth a demotion or not, if yes he puts in an anonymous vote system
-the community decide as a whole if they want the mod gone or not

voila no backlash on yama's part, the paying community get to decide who is fit to moderate, if everything is left to one person then that leads to drama, boycotts and general hostility

what I'm proposing here is a system that makes it easier on Yama and the community as a whole, and avoids pointless segregation over decisions as the vote will be anonymous and yama can use that as the proof the community wants so that people don't get pissed at him like they did before and the community have a way of making things happen instead of being forced to leave/banned because of said mod

[Riku Rose]

Also as we have seen people have just decided to stop coming because they wasn't happy with who was in charge. Being able to vote they will stick around knowing their voice will be heard.

[south carmain]

exactly, the system neo matrix is proposing is the one that has been in place since always, and that has led to countless abuse by mods, Ryudo had been doing this for nearly 3 years and that led to countless people leaving because they had enough, by allowing them to voice their discontent without being banned or silenced would of led to a much better dojo a lot earlier

[Crimson Ryan]

Isn't this all a bit premature? The new team has been decided as far as I can tell. Give them a chance first!

Me personally, if issues came up again I would just report to a 'trusted' mod and ask their opinion on things. If enough people did this it would essentially become the 'anonymous vote' and be elevated high enough to be dealt with..

I thought the same thing, but with this particular computer I can't update or install another browser as I don't have the permissions. I'm using IE 8.0.6 though.

Just had a thought it could be a pop-up glitch. Since you don't have permissions I'm guessing you're using a work or public computer which would have a pop-up blocker. Hold Ctrl or whichever key when pressing the Show button and see if that works..

[south carmain]

^i'm talking about implementing a system to oust them if they step out of line to avoid something like ryudo happening again down the line, if they do their work properly then they have nothing to worry about as you need solid evidence to initiate the vote (obvious disregard of rules by the mod on purpose on multiple occasions), as for complaining to another mod a lot of us did for ryudo but were labelled as trouble makers and disregarded