Voting For Mods

[Riku Rose]

Well we don't know who the new team will be and it's a bit out of order to slag them off, but I just wanted to see peoples opinion on this and if it was possible in the future.

[Crimson Ryan]

^i'm talking about implementing a system to oust them if they step out of line to avoid something like ryudo happening again down the line, if they do their work properly then they have nothing to worry about as you need solid evidence to initiate the vote (obvious disregard of rules by the mod on purpose on multiple occasions), as for complaining to another mod a lot of us did for ryudo but were labelled as trouble makers and disregarded

Yeah, that's what I mean. If it did happen there would be any number of private complaints. That itself is an anonymous vote don't you think? Just to add it's not came back to haunt me whenever I've had to raise issues with someone via PM. If it did, obviously I would just that as ammunition and aim my complaint even higher.

[Master Kyodai]

I don't think a real voting booth is gonna happen as it's not really a popularity contest. But as Yama said - he'll be open for suggestions from the community, so i guess any serious post that suggests someone (or yourself) with a short explanation why you think the person suits perfectly i think it will be considered.

Imho a good candidate would be at least halfway active and also having that kinda calm mind, taking nothing personally and not waving around the ban-hammer unnecessary. Of course you should take it serious, but not so serious that you sleep bad over an argument on a web forum. In the end of the day it's still "just" a forum about Shenmue and there's not that many wars to fight here, so it's neither a highly exciting nor prestigious position, just some janitors sometimes cleaning up the yard.

Whoever is gonna picked, it will never be a decision that "suits everyone", but if you ever have any dispute or problems with a moderator you can always talk to Yama or other staff members. We prolly won't vouch to give anyone a boot to the head just because one user would "like to see that", but serious complaints will be seriously considered. I think all of us made mistakes in the past, ignored some problems and missed some great chances. But well can't change the past until Marty McFly registers, so let's look ahead and try once again.

[south carmain]

@ryan

the problem is that I mad a complaint, a number of others did and no response, we voiced it vocally and nothing was done either, in the end ryudo only left because he wanted to, and most would just leave instead of complaining which will just kill the community, more people would vote if a public vote was set up on the main page and the mods wouldn't want that to happen to them as well, I think private complaints could be something to initiate the vote, for example if a certain amount of private complaints are made with proof then the vote is initiated to gather a general opinion, there should be some rules also that permit an instant demodding if transgressed

[south carmain]

but serious complaints will be seriously considered. I think all of us made mistakes in the past, ignored some problems and missed some great chances.

but they weren't before, they were constantly ignored and even people were insulted for making them

[Coby]

there was drama with master k last year and ryodo stood up also mittens

[Crimson Ryan]

but serious complaints will be seriously considered. I think all of us made mistakes in the past, ignored some problems and missed some great chances.

but they weren't before, they were constantly ignored and even people were insulted for making them

Dunno who you spoke to in that case, but hasn't happened to me so not much else I could say

[south carmain]

ah well I'm willing to see how things go down, but if things fuck up again I really think we should at least discuss my system, it would really be a lifesaver to the dojo when things get too out of hand

[Neo Matrix]

@south carmain:

Ok, let's use your point-by-point...

• only person who can demote is Yama now: Yes, we established that.
• yama is not on the website all the time, he has another website, personal life and work so he can't moderate the community properly, he doesn't know if someone stepped out of line unless if there is an uproar and he is called to come in: Of course he can't follow the site 24/7, no-one can. However, he doesn't need to be. At the same time if he does want 24/7 dedicated "police presence" then yes, use moderators (who will also be fitting the Dojo around their lives).
• he doen't want to make changes that will piss off the community: Who, in their right mind, does want to annoy people as an authority figure?
• when a mod is being a dick it's a small minority who support him but they are the loudest so it seems to yama that these are the majority while in fact other members have stopped posting or cant be assed to post about it or are scared to be banned (see drama a few weeks ago): See my point here, which says exact same thing.

Here's what I was thinking using your proposed system...

1. mod acts out of line
2. member sends proof to yama
3. yama decides if it's worth a demotion or not, if yes he demotes them or issues some sort of disciplinary action
4. yama tells member that action has been taken

Simples! No need to make it a public issue and have a low turnout vote involved. You've said that the people backing a mod caused more problems long term, do you really think voting on sensitive and emotional issues like this won't fracture the membership into smaller clumps? Yama seems to be a sensible and rounded person and if he does decide to demote his mod then just post an announcement that he's done it and a simple reason why. Only the vocal minority will cause a ruckus but if it's deserved they should see sense (unless they're friends of said mod and therefore any opinion will be instantly biased on some level). As long as it's fair, it'll be fine.

You mentioned "paying community". That's just bringing in a whole secret organisation kind of feel which I don't like the sound of. Paying to have your voice heard isn't something that will end well.

Want to make your voice heard? PM the administrator!

Isn't this all a bit premature? The new team has been decided as far as I can tell. Give them a chance first!

It would be a new beginning, you should have all fail-safes in position before you start I say. No point taking time setting things up only for simple bugs to appear at the wrong time.

Me personally, if issues came up again I would just report to a 'trusted' mod and ask their opinion on things. If enough people did this it would essentially become the 'anonymous vote' and be elevated high enough to be dealt with..

Exactly! Although people at the same rank do bond together so I'd go to their immediate superior in this case.

I thought the same thing, but with this particular computer I can't update or install another browser as I don't have the permissions. I'm using IE 8.0.6 though.

Just had a thought it could be a pop-up glitch. Since you don't have permissions I'm guessing you're using a work or public computer which would have a pop-up blocker. Hold Ctrl or whichever key when pressing the Show button and see if that works..

I'll try that, but it's the home computer... my aunt and uncle don't seem to trust me enough with it for some reason. I found the thread by the way, Ryudo seems to have merged it with Techical Issues (I don't remember adding to the thread, but I could be wrong) and I never saw the reply as it got swamped by other posts...

@ryan

the problem is that I mad a complaint, a number of others did and no response, we voiced it vocally and nothing was done either, in the end ryudo only left because he wanted to, and most would just leave instead of complaining which will just kill the community, more people would vote if a public vote was set up on the main page and the mods wouldn't want that to happen to them as well, I think private complaints could be something to initiate the vote, for example if a certain amount of private complaints are made with proof then the vote is initiated to gather a general opinion, there should be some rules also that permit an instant demodding if transgressed

Who did you complain to? I also mentioned earlier that a mod conduct/disciplinary system should be in place before any mods are appointed so that they know what is expected of them. A "What do to when you receive a complaint" system could be another thing to be told to mods.

[Crimson Ryan]

There was a post made about that after the debate about deleting posts. Can't find it though.

[south carmain]

@south carmain:

Ok, let's use your point-by-point...

• only person who can demote is Yama now: Yes, we established that.
• yama is not on the website all the time, he has another website, personal life and work so he can't moderate the community properly, he doesn't know if someone stepped out of line unless if there is an uproar and he is called to come in: Of course he can't follow the site 24/7, no-one can. However, he doesn't need to be. At the same time if he does want 24/7 dedicated "police presence" then yes, use moderators (who will also be fitting the Dojo around their lives).
• he doen't want to make changes that will piss off the community: Who, in their right mind, does want to annoy people as an authority figure?
• when a mod is being a dick it's a small minority who support him but they are the loudest so it seems to yama that these are the majority while in fact other members have stopped posting or cant be assed to post about it or are scared to be banned (see drama a few weeks ago): See my point here, which says exact same thing.

Here's what I was thinking using your proposed system...

1. mod acts out of line
2. member sends proof to yama
3. yama decides if it's worth a demotion or not, if yes he demotes them or issues some sort of disciplinary action
4. yama tells member that action has been taken

that is where you disregard completely my other point, yama wouldn't touch the site or demote ryudo before because of the backlash of a small amount of the community, he just didn't see it worthy of the stress, while enabling the vot this withdraws complete responsibility from him, and it allows for a more harmonious system between members and mods, members who PAY to keep this site running have a say instead of a select few

I complained directly to Yama and peter didn't pay attention when I voiced it vocally and called others trouble makers, in the end the vocal minority were winning because the majority didn't have any power to change things

and I wasn't saying only the paying members get to vote, i was saying this site is kept alive by contributions of members and it wouldn't exist without that, so the members of the site should have a voice as they are the lifeline of this website

everything you are saying is the system that was put in place before

-strict rules for moderators
happened, nothing changed
-pm a mod about your discontent
happened, nothing changed
-voicing your opinion and hope that action will be taken
happened nothing changed

you are defending a system that is already implemented and has proven it's lack of efficiency countless times since years now

[Yama]

The ability to vote keeping members around because they feel they weren't heard prior is not a bad idea, but the necessity of it simply says the staff is broken. We won't have the ability to vote, because we won't need it from here on out. The ability to vote more or less says that the staff is not willing to listen, something I've always been willing to do and will be able to act on more now.

Don't worry so much about how things work behind the scenes, simply continue to be upstanding members and all will be just fine. In the future, if you have any concerns or suggestions in regards to mods, simply slip me a PM.

We will have a familiar yet rethought staff being announced, with a potential second wave of additions (1-2) in the near future. Considering the size of the site, activity and overall quality of members, this will work just fine.

[Peter]

with a potential second wave of additions (1-2) in the near future. Considering the size of the site, activity and overall quality of members, this will work just fine.

Have you had a Sega tip off on a Shenmue HD release??? You teasing us here or what?

[Sailors?]

I've been meaning to ask you Neo Matrix but where you previously Twist. Twist05 and ofcourse NeoShredder?

Oh and on the subject i'm kind of torn on the voting for mods thing, I trust in Yamas decision either way.

[Peter]

I've been meaning to ask you Neo Matrix but where you previously Twist. Twist05 and ofcourse NeoShredder?