Tentei? Spoilers inside

[SMDzero]

Oh I'm all into getting fewer more detailed chapters per game but then I'd have to bank on Shenmue 4 and 5.

I always figured Shenmue 2 ended at the series 1/2 way point and Shenmue 3 would take us to 75% of the way thru.

I think we're going to get a fantastic Shenmue 3 but still be only half way done with the series.. I really really hope we get Shenmue 4 and 5!!

Even if we never get a 4 or 5.. we're STILL better off now just getting Shenmue 3 at all. I just think the cliffhanger for Shenmue 3 is going to put even Shenmue 2's ending to shame.

[Hanzumon]

My fear is that the story is so big, that the next three games are not big enough to tell the last seven chapters of the Shenmue-Saga.

I don`t like the idea that we must beat two of the four bosses each game to get a rush ending ... To defeat one of the bosses in each game would be a slower story-telling.

With Tentei we had five bosses but only three games. And we don´t sould forget chai as a enemy as well. My fear is still that Suzuki skipps another chapter or another boss to get the series finished with Shenmue V oder maybe earlier with Shenmue IV ...

[Belgiumfan]

My theory on the bosses we'll meet in Shenmue 3&4...

I dunno why some of you believe we will only meet two bosses in Shenmue 3 since Suzuki confirmed we will fight 4 bosses including Niao Sun and Lan Di.

You cannot link Shenmue's story pace to boss fights and take conclusions like "5 bosses remaining, 2 or 3 games left, which makes 2 bosses every game..." No one knows for sure if the original scenario planned to group the boss fights or to scatter them. And even in the unlikely event where we'd meet the 4 Chi You Men leaders in Shenmue 3, there would still be plenty of things to tell in Shenmue 4, no worries.

We know from David's first interview that the 4 shadows standing on mountains on the chapter 8 picture

are not Chi You men but 4 grand masters. They are pointing in the 4 cardinal directions, so they should be linked to the 4 Chi You Men leaders that we know from David's interview : are also linked to those directions.



Shenmue 2 end credits.


The 4 Chi You Men leaders.

From those two pictures, we can get that they always planned the meeting of Niao Sun & Lan Di in Shenmue 3, and did not unveil the two other Chi You Men leaders because they were planned for later games. Even when David asks his question, Yu separates Lan Di & Niao Sun from the two others, adding "Now, regarding the last 2 bosses, no one has seen them yet". If this is accurate, there ain't no big change in the boss fight structure planned in 1996 VS 2002 VS 2017.

My belief is that in Shenmue 3 : since we know that we will fight 2 of the 4 Chi You Men leaders : Niao Sun and Lan Di, and that there will be 4 boss fights in the game : I'm pretty sure we will also fight 2 of the 4 grand masters (from the same directions as Lan & Niao : east & south), that will teach new techniques to help us take down Niao Sun & Lan Di.

Now about Ziming Hong. We know from the Shenmue 2 comics that Niao Sun talks with Ziming in a Chi You Men lair.


We can see Ziming walking right on the symbol of Chi You, which might mean that he actually IS Tentei ! Niao Sun stands at the south of the symbol, when Ziming is at the center of the Chi You symbol.
Yu told David "Oh and, Ziming Hong is not one of the 4th leaders", he had the occasion to say that Ziming was one of the grand masters, but did not, probably because he ain't. He also did not say Ziming was not "Chi You Men", and we know from Shenmue 2 that Ziming wanted to enter the Chi You Men.
I suppose the grand masters and Chi You Men are kind of opposed in a way the "light/dark side of the force" are, plus in the comics : Ziming seems to be at home in this Chi You Men landscape. Yu said in a video interview to shenmuemaster that Tentei was higher than the 4 leaders, so since everything points that he has become a Chi You Men : I believe he is their head : Tentei.


Or...(but to me the following theory ain't as good as the previous one) : Ziming could be one of the grand masters and a his name might suggest a hint related to the legend of the 4 animals : the Turtle guardian being also called "Zhiming"... Source : http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/The_Four_Numinous_Animals_and_Twenty-Eight_Constellations. Which would make him the grand master of the north region that we would fight in Shenmue 4 : along with another grand master (who could be the Shaolin monk from chapter 7 picture) and two Chi You Men : Koutei & Gentei.

Many questions will remain for years...
-Who are the grand masters from the south & east : are they the two characters from chapter 4 picture : "Lau" for the east with Lan Di and the Bruce Lee guy for the south with Niao Sun ?. It could be since "Bruce Lee" and Niao Sun appear together once again in chapter 6.
- Who is the old master standing on Ryo's head on chapter 6 picture ? He could match Koutei's shadow, but he also might be a grand master since he seems to train Ryo.
-Who is the bald guy in suit from the chapter 8 picture ? He doesn't match the Chi You Men shadows.
- Why does Tentei want to gain access to eternal life ? If he is Ziming, does it have a link with the murder of his parents ?
-...

Your thoughts ?

[DEVILLE_David]

My theory on the bosses we'll meet in Shenmue 3&4...

I dunno why some of you believe we will only meet two bosses in Shenmue 3 since Suzuki confirmed we will fight 4 bosses including Niao Sun and Lan Di.

You cannot link Shenmue's story pace to boss fights and take conclusions like "5 bosses remaining, 2 or 3 games left, which makes 2 bosses every game..." No one knows for sure if the original scenario planned to group the boss fights or to scatter them. And even in the unlikely event where we'd meet the 4 Chi You Men leaders in Shenmue 3, there would still be plenty of things to tell in Shenmue 4, no worries.

We know from David's first interview that the 4 shadows standing on mountains on the chapter 8 picture

are not Chi You men but 4 grand masters. They are pointing in the 4 cardinal directions, so they should be linked to the 4 Chi You Men leaders that we know from David's interview : are also linked to those directions.



Shenmue 2 end credits.


The 4 Chi You Men leaders.

From those two pictures, we can get that they always planned the meeting of Niao Sun & Lan Di in Shenmue 3, and did not unveil the two other Chi You Men leaders because they were planned for later games. Even when David asks his question, Yu separates Lan Di & Niao Sun from the two others, adding "Now, regarding the last 2 bosses, no one has seen them yet". If this is accurate, there ain't no big change in the boss fight structure planned in 1996 VS 2002 VS 2017.

My belief is that in Shenmue 3 : since we know that we will fight 2 of the 4 Chi You Men leaders : Niao Sun and Lan Di, and that there will be 4 boss fights in the game : I'm pretty sure we will also fight 2 of the 4 grand masters (from the same directions as Lan & Niao : east & south), that will teach new techniques to help us take down Niao Sun & Lan Di.

Now about Ziming Hong. We know from the Shenmue 2 comics that Niao Sun talks with Ziming in a Chi You Men lair.


We can see Ziming walking right on the symbol of Chi You, which might mean that he actually IS Tentei ! Niao Sun stands at the south of the symbol, when Ziming is at the center of the Chi You symbol.
Yu told David "Oh and, Ziming Hong is not one of the 4th leaders", he had the occasion to say that Ziming was one of the grand masters, but did not, probably because he ain't. He also did not say Ziming was not "Chi You Men", and we know from Shenmue 2 that Ziming wanted to enter the Chi You Men.
I suppose the grand masters and Chi You Men are kind of opposed in a way the "light/dark side of the force" are, plus in the comics : Ziming seems to be at home in this Chi You Men landscape. Yu said in a video interview to shenmuemaster that Tentei was higher than the 4 leaders, so since everything points that he has become a Chi You Men : I believe he is their head : Tentei.


Or...(but to me the following theory ain't as good as the previous one) : Ziming could be one of the grand masters and a his name might suggest a hint related to the legend of the 4 animals : the Turtle guardian being also called "Zhiming"... Source : http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/The_Four_Numinous_Animals_and_Twenty-Eight_Constellations. Which would make him the grand master of the north region that we would fight in Shenmue 4 : along with another grand master (who could be the Shaolin monk from chapter 7 picture) and two Chi You Men : Koutei & Gentei.

Many questions will remain for years...
-Who are the grand masters from the south & east : are they the two characters from chapter 4 picture : "Lau" for the east with Lan Di and the Bruce Lee guy for the south with Niao Sun ?. It could be since "Bruce Lee" and Niao Sun appear together once again in chapter 6.
- Who is the old master standing on Ryo's head on chapter 6 picture ? He could match Koutei's shadow, but he also might be a grand master since he seems to train Ryo.
-Who is the bald guy in suit from the chapter 8 picture ? He doesn't match the Chi You Men shadows.
- Why does Tentei want to gain access to eternal life ? If he is Ziming, does it have a link with the murder of his parents ?
-...

Your thoughts ?

That is :

An interesting theory. I can't provide answers to some of your questions for obvious reasons... but I am looking forward to everyone's theory on this. I really like reading this kind of post.

You're right about the fact that we will see Niao Sun and Lan Di even tho that's 2 out of 4.

Regarding the Grand Masters and the previous artwork/image : they are not linked to the Chiyoumen, Yu Suzuki confirmed this when I met him.

" -Who is the bald guy in suit from the chapter 8 picture ? He doesn't match the Chi You Men shadows."
Yes, he doesn't match the shadow and he's not one of the Chiyoumen leaders.

[ConanTheKing]

I'm so glad I didn't know about this before the Shenmue III announcement, the wait would have been more unbearable. I guess it reminds me of Final Fantasy VIII, FF8 spoilers below

Your enemy is Sorceress Edea, you fight her across like two discs and clash against her in epic battles in Deling city and during the Garden war so she seemed really deadly. I was shocked as a child to find out that there's someone even more fearsome in the game than her.

It's like even the mighty Lan Di has to serve someone, think, if someone as cold and brutal as him has to serve someone then just imagine how powerful this Tentei guy must be to command people like that.

[7heavens]

I personally think that we will see all 4 bosses in shenmue 3. We may or may not face them all. One grandmaster was confirmed by yu suzuki during the kick starter. We will meet him in shenmue 3 defo.

Now I speculate that we already have met another grandmaster. But have not yet truly understood the status of that individual. That grand master being master lishao tao xiuying Hong. Her skill level is way beyond everyone you've seen so far. She can kill u with a single finger thrust to the neck. Can evade all your attacks. Ryo is a novice before her. It was with her advice that ryo was able to beat dou niu. Words cannot express her depth. One if the NPCs in the game said it best when asked about xiuying, "it is very difficult to measure a mountain!"

I think yu Suzuki will finish shenmue in 4 games. If we face all bosses in shenmue 3 ...

(which is a possibility as we will be infiltrating the chi you men HQ)

And lose to lan di in the initial confrontation. It sets up part four for a rematch and then getting to the bottom if the bigger issue... And dealing with tentei.....

I think in shenmue 3 the mystery of your fathers early years and the killing if lan di's father will be touched upon but I expect a big twist in the last shenmue game. Maybe lan di joins you in the quest for truth.

P.s.
Did David see all 4 grandmasters as well as the 4 bosses. Or was it just the 4 bosses? And is it hard to keep such a secret? (People have been waiting 15 years.... We want disclosure... Lol)

[Peter]

Haven't looked at either of the 2 pages, because of a: I remember the Tentei talk from back in the day, and b: because I couldn't care either way. The story could have changed. Tweaks could have been made. There may have never been a Tentei in the first place. Yu could have just lied. If he hasn't, who cares.......

The point is, for me personally, I am way out of participating in the Dojo over spoilers, old or new. I honestly want to put in that disc and be prepared to be properly blown away! I mean how I felt when I seen those lights above the mirror when Yuanada Zhu blew his smoke over it. When the Sword of Seven Stars arose out of the pedestal and beamed lasers from the phoenix mirror to ignite the fire stalks!!

I know it's going to be hard to avoid that around here, but I am more interested as to why you guys want to try and spoil the game for yourselves? Just curious.

[DEVILLE_David]

Haven't looked at either of the 2 pages, because of a: I remember the Tentei talk from back in the day, and b: because I couldn't care either way. The story could have changed. Tweaks could have been made. There may have never been a Tentei in the first place. Yu could have just lied. If he hasn't, who cares.......

The point is, for me personally, I am way out of participating in the Dojo over spoilers, old or new. I honestly want to put in that disc and be prepared to be properly blown away! I mean how I felt when I seen those lights above the mirror when Yuanada Zhu blew his smoke over it. When the Sword of Seven Stars arose out of the pedestal and beamed lasers from the phoenix mirror to ignite the fire stalks!!

I know it's going to be hard to avoid that around here, but I am more interested as to why you guys want to try and spoil the game for yourselves? Just curious.

I guess it's just like TV series, people always try to guess what's going to happen next. Not sure if you guys watch the Walking Dead, but that's the same thing really. You always want to know who's going to die next, will that guy survive etc.

Funny thing with Shenmue spoilers thread and that's something I've noticed a few times, it's that people are focusing on Chiyoumen's main bosses but are never talking (or not that much) about the low ranked members... (like Master Baihu)

[Peter]

Haahaahaa NO! I haven't begun to watch the Walking Dead yet. It's next on my list once I get done with Peaky Blinders, but I get the want to understand what happens next. For example, I absolutely hate watching a current show. I am a self confessed box set junkie. The only shows I watch on a weekly basis are Doctor Who, Big Bang Theory, Game of Thrones, Better Call Saul, and Gotham. Everything else I have watched as a box set. From Sons Of Anarchy, to House, Breaking Bad, Prison Break, Lost etc. I think it's far better, it's all watched on your terms. You can't read casting updates, director choices, theory articles, quote hints from cast etc. All of that stuff completely destroys my brain, plus I honestly do NOT have any willpower. I will read a spoiler by just saying to myself, "I will read the first line of the article..." yea right! This is why I have a problem with the Shenmue Community right now, which is ironic after it being so dormant during my 12 years here. This is the home of spoilers, and in a way, rightfully so. They 100% should be discussed here. But I digress, I want that feeling again.... that Shenmue feeling. I have earned that after waiting for so long, and talking about literally every theory we could possibly conceive of here. So much so, that you have forgotten all the theories you originally came up with! But now this beloved home of Shenmue, is now my worst enemy. All videos, quotes, updates, screenshots, synopsis, developmental team announcements, audio samples etc, take a little away from the game, from what I've spent the past 12 years on, collecting dividends for the huge payoff in 2017.

I know what you are talking about, regarding Master Baihu. Someone bumped that old old topic recently in the Shenmue 2 forum. Now he may never appear again, or as well as any other character from the Shenmue franchise..... but I don't want to run the risk of finding out who. I would hazard a bet someone does, but if I found out who, then that's 50% of the game ruined right there for me, simply because, as I said, I want to play this game blind.

I don't know what to do. Speak to Yama and stand down. Log out and delete all favourites from my browsers. Risk losing touch with the community. It's been a serious point of discussion with a few members I speak to privately and I am just clueless right now of what to do.

No disrespect intended, but as an absolute true Shenmue fan, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from auction sites for merchandise, YouTube for new videos, developing new ideas for content to the Shenmue Community, posting here and Facebook, Tweeting, speaking privately with my close Shenmue friends, learning Japanese.... I have a very serious decision to make. One which only a few people could hold their hands up and genuinely say they are in the same position.

[Yokosuka]

I was going to make a thread about the fans behaviour towards the incoming spoilers. It would be interesting to know what are the personal strategies to avoid the "MGS V syndrome".

Yu said publicly that he enjoy fans discussing about the next chapters between them. I think Yu revealed secret (and false) parts purposely to keep the fans excited and even help them to get more into the story in the way he wants when the game will release.

However I'm not sure if the Tentei leak was intentional from him.

[Peter]

I sort of agree. If the Tentei ides is one which turns out to be true, then how Yu has dropped that idea into the story, without ever reaching that point in the story, is another piece of great storytelling.

If we had played through Shenmue 1,2,3 and then 4 on the Dreamcast exactly how it's all gone the way it has done before, get our hands on LanDi, only to find out that some other chump was a behind the scenes puppet master, Golden Axe style? Then I would have went into rage mode. I'm talking Halo 2 rage mode. But now Yu has flirted with that idea for what seems to be years now, it can be so so amazing if told right! And the best part about it is that, Yu really is the Master of directing this story, if the 2 Shenmue games previously released are anything to go by!

[sshen1127]

imaging tentei is Yuanda Zhu

[shredingskin]

What tentei theory are you talking about ?

Zhu being "lying" to protect ?

Also, there's NO WAY, that Zimming isn't the one on the 4 shadow chi you men leaders.

[sshen1127]

will shredingskin you wrong

Yu Suzuki : Lan Di (Rantei-Souryu/藍帝(蒼龍)) is the east leader. His name also means Blue Dragon. About Niao Sun, she also has another name : 炎帝 (Entei), and rules over the South part and is represented by a Phoenix.

Now, regarding the last 2 bosses, no one has seen them yet. One of them is Koutei (昊帝) and leads the West part and is represented by a Tiger. The last one is Gentei (玄帝), covers the North part and is represented by a Turtle.

Oh and, Ziming Hong is not one of the 4th leaders.

[shredingskin]

Yu said that, but I don't believe him.

The comic and the shadow match perfectly.