Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby shredingskin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:26 pm

Guizang > Ren

In every way
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby Himuro » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:29 pm

But Guizhang didn't leave with Ryo. He's not Ryo material. Ren is going to meet up with Ryo because he smells money, but in reality he's chasing after the man of his dreams and he just can't admit it yet.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:30 pm

ImGladUmad wrote: I love shenmue, I love the story but the real reason why it was so amazing was because it was pushing the envelope at the time. The game was truly immersive, the amount of detail from arcades to forklift jobs was simply amazing.

I really felt like I was living in 80's japan.

Shenmue 3 needs that, I know its hard because they arn't gonna have that $50-$70 million budget but they need to capture that immersion.

Don't get me wrong the Shenmue story is great but that feeling of immersion is much much better...Yu Suzuki can't forget the reason Shenmue 1 is considered the GOAT.

Shenmue 2 Hong Kong didn't feel much immersive either, there was something missing.


The way Shenmue 2 ended was very strange, it seemed to be leaving that realism 80's world which is extremely relatable to the modern gamer today to 80's China village, which doesn't sound much appealing.

I really hope that Shenmue 3 takes place in Japan for the most part...Chinese villagies just doesn't have that immersion 80's japan does.

As for the story, it's been getting more and more "mystical", not sure if this is a good thing but I hope the game for the most part feels like real modern life.


Some of the Realism Features I want is.

>Eating is required now, will make those tomato convenience store useful
>AI reacts to you doing weird stuff like running around,staring at them, looking at wall


If Shenmue made me feel like I was living in my japanese hometown. Shenmue II made me feel like an immigrant going abroad in an adventure. Never once I felt a lack of immersion on SHII.

Shenmue II ending wasn't strange if you have been following the story since the beginning, in fact you could even say the meat and bones of the saga only starts after that point. Since the prophesy can only begin after Shenhua and Ryo meet.

The game teases you with ancient Chinese culture since the very beginning. It was always the focus of the game narrative.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby sand4fish » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:31 pm

Himuro wrote: But Guizhang didn't leave with Ryo. He's not Ryo material. Ren is going to meet up with Ryo because he smells money, but in reality he's chasing after the man of his dreams and he just can't admit it yet.


Wow... Now you have convinced me! REN for the winner.

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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby JaySw34 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:35 pm

Himuro wrote:
JaySw34 wrote: I don't think it's too farfetched to think that the story will eventually bring Ryo back to Japan.


In III? Why? So Ryo is going to go back to Japan with Shenhua without having completed his goal and then get another job to support his baby and wife (Shenhua) while saving up to go to China again? All in one game? I predict Ryo will go back to Japan at the end of his journey and III isn't going to be the last game.


Not necessarily in III. I just basically meant that he will eventually return. My vision has always been that if there ends up being this grand epic show down between Ryo and Lan Di, it will take place in the Hazuki dojo where his father was killed. How will this happen? Idk but it's always been how I envisioned it. The place where Ryo, a clueless immature boy, witnessed his father's murder. He eventually returns as a wise, mature, world-weary man who has grown mentally by leaps and bounds to confront his nemesis.
Last edited by JaySw34 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby shredingskin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:35 pm

To get back on topic, I think that it's easier to do the "shenmue enviroments" look so detailed in a urban setting.

I don't know how much detail you can add to a forest or to a little house in the middle of nowhere.

Himuro wrote: But Guizhang didn't leave with Ryo. He's not Ryo material. Ren is going to meet up with Ryo because he smells money, but in reality he's chasing after the man of his dreams and he just can't admit it yet.


Actually Guizang was going with Ryo, but got INJURED trying to save RYO'S LIFE.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby Himuro » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:37 pm

Ren's idea of a hot date night is trying to see who can get the best score in the arcade. Do you guys see Guizhang playing Hang On? I don't. Ren wins.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby Benwah » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:41 pm

shredingskin wrote:
Himuro wrote: Huh? Why would Ryo go back to Japan without having fought Lan Di?


Booty call from nozomi.

Ah, yeah, it's Ryo, not happening :sad:


Nozomi would be in Canada by that point surely?
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby ShinChuck » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:48 pm

Himuro wrote: I agree. Shenmue II didn't have a small town feeling because it wasn't in a small town. It wasn't as immersive because it took place in wild chaotic locations. With III being in small towns, they can now recreate that feeling from I. The setting of the country doesn't matter. I'm not sure why you're putting Japan on such a high pedestal.


I honestly think you're on to something here, and I'm fairly excited for it. If anything, it might be closer to real life *today* than 80s Japan was. Shenmue took place a decade before it was released. Not all of us were alive in the 80s, and even fewer of us were alive in Japan in the 80s.

But rural China? There are still places that exist, today, that could be close to what we'll experience in Shenmue III. I'm really, really looking forward to it, to being able to experience something detached, far away, and remote (just like 80s Japan) that I'll never have a chance otherwise to experience.

I agree with OP as well: immersive realism > story, because immersive realism creates the story. When you get down to it, the Shenmue 1 story was fairly simplistic and bare bones. But what made the game was the realism, the everyday things Ryo still had to deal with. Allowance, girlfriends, a doting adult, Fuku-san's relationship issues, the woes of travel, holding down a job, the struggles of being a teenager, rain and weather, curfews, the need to rest a bit with some games and toys...
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby shredingskin » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:49 pm

I don't agree with realism > story.

But the story is going to turn into magic mumbo jumbo and we know it.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby mue 26 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:37 pm

One of the best things about the series so far is how it evolved naturally, like a proper adventure would, without being afraid to take the player and Ryo out of their comfort zone. As others have said, Shenmue 2 feels strikingly different to Shenmue 1, but it still felt like the natural progression of Ryo's journey. It didn't add anything new and spicy just for sake of adding something new and spicy, like so many other game sequels do, yet also wasn't afraid to leave behind it's old trappings and move into new territory (literally). Shenmue 1 and Shenmue 2 both respectively gave me such unique feelings and experiences, and each feeds into the other and enhances the other.

The last disc on Shenmue 2 took us into new territory again, but only really gave us a taster of it. I think it's obvious by now that this more rural direction is where Shenmue 3 is headed. I personally welcome this, and look forward to seeing how the 1980's Chinese countryside will make me feel. Not many other games would take us to such a place.

As for the mystical "mumbo jumbo" some people are talking about. That's as much what makes Shenmue for me as anything else in the game. It wouldn't be Shenmue if it didn't have that slight contrast and tension between the realistic and mystical/supernatural. In fact, it wasn't even really a "tension" at all, that's the wrong way of putting it. The games blended the two so skillfully that the mystical starts to seem realistic, and realistic starts to seem mystical. It's takes it all in it's stride throughout, handling both elements with a unbelievably deft hand.

I don't have any doubts that Yu will continue to weave the quotidian and the extraordinary as successfully as he did in the first two games. Yes, the end of Shenmue 2 was a blockbuster, jaw to floor moment, but wasn't it amazing. And I'm sure Yu knows as well as we do, what made that moment so special, was that the games didn't throw this stuff at us willy nilly. It was a special scene for a special moment, and executed brilliantly. Probably more than anything else, the Shenmue games made me feel like there is more to world than we realise, more than what meets the eye. Sure you can say it's all just cliched orientalist mumbu jumbu mysticism if you want, but no other film or game has made the supernatural, or the seemingly unbelievable, feel so believable to me.

So it's only fitting that the unbelievable, Shenmue 3, has just been made believable.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby ImGladUmad » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:10 am

Himuro wrote: Huh? Why would Ryo go back to Japan without having fought Lan Di? How is rural China less immersive than Japan? If Japan is in Shenmue III then why isn't it mentioned in he location stretch goals? If you look at Shenmue's story map that Yu showed at GDC, you'll see that pretty much the rest of the story takes place in rural China.


What are you talking about, stretch goals? Maybe because Japan isn't a stretch goal, is part of the story.


Yu Suzukis quote is "In Shenmue III, we will have places like Japan and China, of course. Shenmue III paints the pictures of the culture and ideas you can find in eastern Asia"

He clearly mentions Japan...So yes Japan is in the game, not sure for how much.

The story could easily end up in japan again.

As for Why is 80's japan more immersive than some Chinese Forrest village? Is quite simple IMO....Convenient stores/Forklifts/harbors/relatively modern housing is much more immersive to me and modern gamers than some shack in China.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby Himuro » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:17 am

I don't think the word immersive is what you're looking for. "Relatable" is what you're probably looking for.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby ImGladUmad » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:25 am

Himuro wrote: I don't think the word immersive is what you're looking for. "Relatable" is what you're probably looking for.

Well is the whole thing..I want Modern immersiveness which Shenmue had so much of.

That to me is what makes Shenmue, Shenmue.

You won't get that in some Chinese Shack.
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Re: Immersive Realism Features>Story, Y Shenmue 1 is GOAT.

Postby OL » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:15 am

Then go play Shenmue 1.
There are other ways to build immersion in a game, and Shenmue has always done it through different methods depending on the setting. Immersion is about creating a convincing atmosphere, not directly catering to your personal tastes.
The word you're looking for is "appeal," not immersion.
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