How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritual?

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby johnvivant » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:13 am

BayStone wrote:
joka wrote:
BayStone wrote:
joka wrote: I think it needs to stay fairly grounded as martial arts is such an important element.
There was some cut s2 or early s3 scenes of a Shenhua fight where's she's like power palming (or air pulsing like baystone put better!) 2 chiyoumen punks away (can't find the image online currently) and that 'enhanced' element is fine by me but I don't want to be seeing fireballs coming out of their hands like that awful online trailer!


True, and thanks, but those 2 chiyoumen punks... I think it might actually be Ryo and Ziming.


No there was definitely a shot of Shenhua 'dispersing' them as it were!


Yep yep, exactly. :) Those two shouldn't be fighting so she stops them.


i think its more likely that those 2 are trying to restrain Shenhua, because if you look closely there are shots of them grabbing her arm, then her shoulder.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby ShenmueTree » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:42 am

We already know Ryo has the power of premonitions in Shenmue one. What do you think all those "dreams" of Shenhua were, if they've never met before?

Also the entire intro of Shenmue is a prophecy, so the spirituality has always been there, it's just been mostly reserved.

I think that I'm going to be absolutely fine with it if the magic stays on the same level as the first A Song of Ice and Fire novels, which contain magic yes, but it's done in a way that makes every event feel like it has extreme depth and weight. It's not just mundane, everyone is a wizard, redundancy, when something magical happens, it's well, magical. I think that is a great feeling for Shenmue since it has always been that way from the start.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby BayStone » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:47 am

johnvivant wrote:
BayStone wrote:
joka wrote:
BayStone wrote:
joka wrote: I think it needs to stay fairly grounded as martial arts is such an important element.
There was some cut s2 or early s3 scenes of a Shenhua fight where's she's like power palming (or air pulsing like baystone put better!) 2 chiyoumen punks away (can't find the image online currently) and that 'enhanced' element is fine by me but I don't want to be seeing fireballs coming out of their hands like that awful online trailer!


True, and thanks, but those 2 chiyoumen punks... I think it might actually be Ryo and Ziming.


No there was definitely a shot of Shenhua 'dispersing' them as it were!


Yep yep, exactly. :) Those two shouldn't be fighting so she stops them.


i think its more likely that those 2 are trying to restrain Shenhua, because if you look closely there are shots of them grabbing her arm, then her shoulder.


More likely, surely, but more interesting (for me), nope, not yet. :P
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby MiTT3NZ » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:48 am

Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off. I suppose it's one of they key points in making the first two so grounded though... so when it gets to the point when it's full-blown fireballs materialising from palms and transforming into mythical creatures everyone's as taken aback by it as Ryo.

I mean, without any of the groundwork, we wouldn't even have bat an eyelid on the basis that it's commonplace in video games.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby ShenmueTree » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:57 am

MiTT3NZ wrote: Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off. I suppose it's one of they key points in making the first two so grounded though... so when it gets to the point when it's full-blown fireballs materialising from palms and transforming into mythical creatures everyone's as taken aback by it as Ryo.

I mean, without any of the groundwork, we wouldn't even have bat an eyelid on the basis that it's commonplace in video games.


Yes, this is what I'm talking about when I say I'm fine with it as long as the moments with magic in them feel special/magical and don't feel like a normal every day thing. They have to be surprising and have depth. When Ryo sees those mirrors and the sword, it is not a normal sight for him and neither are his dreams. He feels they're out of place because they are normally. Which makes these types of events all the more impactful.

I feel most would disagree with this but I'd say if Shenmue 3 ends with a dragon coming out of a mountain, I'd still be okay with that though. As long as it's clear that these types of things are extremely rare.

But yes, everyone using fireballs and being invincible and superman like is just not how I want Shenmue to be. Superman is boring, why would I want Shenmue to be like that?
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby Giorgio » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:17 am

Inspired.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby Nahovil » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:42 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote:[color=yellow]Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off.




I wouldn't agree that it is inherently spiritual, since we're are far from sure whether the story and setting (i.e Lan Di's reason for collecting the mirror) originally stems from such concept. Also, I should say, growing from boy to man isn't a spiritual transformation, as it's been said. Personally, regardless of the so-called prophecy in the epilogue, spirituality seems far from taking any kind of major place in the series, prevailing, instead, the mundane and everyday's relationship with it. On the deeper level, philosophy, especially through Ethics, is fundamental to this story of perseverance, accountability and emotion - natural, human endeavours.
  


 

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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby mue 26 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:14 pm

It's pretty obvious that Yu was inspired by traditional Chinese mysticism and spirituality, which is also a part of the Chinese martial arts that also obviously inspired him, right from the get go. As I said in another thread, that's a big part of what makes Shenmue Shenmue, to me at least. It was always about blending the extremely realistic and quotidian with the mystical/superanatural/whateveryouwanttocallit. Both sides sides of the coin compliment and enhance the other and give Shenmue it's unique atmosphere. In Shenmue 1, the mundane, which could have become boring/dull, is balanced out by a feeling of some kind of unseen mystical heart beating just below the surface level. It eventually builds to an amazing crescendo by the end of Shenmue 2, where for the first time that surface layer gets peeled back, the veil to that secret world is lifted and we're actually allowed to take a peek.
Expect that veil to come at least half way down again during most of Shenmue 3 though, Yu knows what he's doing, and I doubt he's planning to sustain floating swords and magic throughout the duration of the whole game.

Yes Shenmue is still essentially a coming of age tale, but it's inspirations and how it blends them all together are what make it a unique one.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby BayStone » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:20 pm

Nahovil wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote:[color=yellow]Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off.




I wouldn't agree that it is inherently spiritual, since we're are far from sure whether the story and setting (i.e Lan Di's reason for collecting the mirror) originally stems from such concept. Also, I should say, growing from boy to man isn't a spiritual transformation, as it's been said. Personally, regardless of the so-called prophecy in the epilogue, spirituality seems far from taking any kind of major place in the series, prevailing, instead, the mundane and everyday's relationship with it. On the deeper level, philosophy, especially through Ethics, is fundamental to this story of perseverance, accountability and emotion - natural, human endeavours.


Here here. Now, I do hope that some form of spirituality does enter the picture at some point, taking a step further from the usual martial arts related philosophy.
Last edited by BayStone on Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby 7heavens » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:22 pm

phpBB [video]


This vid describes the series nicely. Describes the wuxia tropes within shenmue. Its.actually a very good.analysis
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby MiTT3NZ » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:08 pm

Nahovil wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote:Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off.




I wouldn't agree that it is inherently spiritual, since we're are far from sure whether the story and setting (i.e Lan Di's reason for collecting the mirror) originally stems from such concept. Also, I should say, growing from boy to man isn't a spiritual transformation, as it's been said. Personally, regardless of the so-called prophecy in the epilogue, spirituality seems far from taking any kind of major place in the series, prevailing, instead, the mundane and everyday's relationship with it. On the deeper level, philosophy, especially through Ethics, is fundamental to this story of perseverance, accountability and emotion - natural, human endeavours.


You misunderstand. I'm talkin spirituality in the sense of "oh dude, that is - like - soooo spiritual."

Buddhism, ancient beliefs, prophecy, all that bollocks. The series reeks of it when the gangs n normality melt away.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby Nahovil » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:08 pm

I'm accounting for Buddhism and, perhaps, Taoism when I mentioned Ethics. Their values stand out and a dialectic, in this sense, is born out of Ryo's struggle with choosing his path.

Obviously, every symbol can be highly subjective, and things will appeal differently to different people. Shenmue conveys a diluted form of spirituality - the one you're referring to - ubiquitous in modern day Japan, which lends its principles to a likewise modern thought. The real, immersive experience we all seem to praise seems, to me, deeply connected with this aspect.
  


 
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby GoldenLotus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:11 pm

I like ancient magic stuff in my kung-fu. I think Shenmue could use a bit more "cheese". Imagine at the end of three, the Phoenix and dragon appearing? It would be epic. No DBZ for FMA stuff though.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby Himuro » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:45 pm

Buddhism in Shenmue is actually fairly minimal. Pretty much most of its mythos hail from Taoism and Chinese cosmology.


Nahovil wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote:[color=yellow]Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off.




I wouldn't agree that it is inherently spiritual, since we're are far from sure whether the story and setting (i.e Lan Di's reason for collecting the mirror) originally stems from such concept. Also, I should say, growing from boy to man isn't a spiritual transformation, as it's been said. Personally, regardless of the so-called prophecy in the epilogue, spirituality seems far from taking any kind of major place in the series, prevailing, instead, the mundane and everyday's relationship with it. On the deeper level, philosophy, especially through Ethics, is fundamental to this story of perseverance, accountability and emotion - natural, human endeavours.


Naw, spirituality is deeply woven within Shenmue. The dragon, the Phoenix, the stars (remember the Chinese lady in 1 talking about the stars and its influence on Chinese culture, they even segue the scene into Shenhua staring at them at night), the cosmology, it's all there. Lishao Tao is a Taoist priest. The ethical grounds are universal, but it would be incorrect to say Shenmue is not steeped in eastern religion.


BayStone wrote:
Nahovil wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote:[color=yellow]Shenmue is inherently spiritual anyway, I think it's the mysticism that's throwin everyone off.




I wouldn't agree that it is inherently spiritual, since we're are far from sure whether the story and setting (i.e Lan Di's reason for collecting the mirror) originally stems from such concept. Also, I should say, growing from boy to man isn't a spiritual transformation, as it's been said. Personally, regardless of the so-called prophecy in the epilogue, spirituality seems far from taking any kind of major place in the series, prevailing, instead, the mundane and everyday's relationship with it. On the deeper level, philosophy, especially through Ethics, is fundamental to this story of perseverance, accountability and emotion - natural, human endeavours.


Here here. Now, I do hope that some form of spirituality does enter the picture at some point, taking a step further from the usual martial arts related philosophy.


Martial arts related philosophy and religion are inherently tied. Bajiquan, the martial art Xiuying uses and is hinted that Ryo later learns and takes on himself as a student, is often tied to Taoist meditation. You can google it yourself. Buddhist CREATED Kung fu. There's entire genres in Chinese culture that blend martial heroes with religion. The greatest novel of all time, Journey to the West is inherently an obvious example and influence. Shenmue is directly inspired by all of these assets of Chinese culture on top of wuxia film, which is NO stranger to mixing philosophy/religion and martial arts. See: 36th chamber of Shaolin.
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Re: How Do You Feel About Shenmue III Becoming More Spiritua

Postby mue 26 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:03 pm

Chinese martial arts mythos and origin stories are just superb. There are a couple of real gems amongst the different Baji Quan schools, but my very favourite origin story is still the Shaolin one, it doesn't get much more bat shit crazy than that hahaha. I recommend giving it a goosey if you have the time.
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