There may be hope for our save files!

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Mr357 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:58 am

The anniversary edition of Grandia II was released today, and to my surprise it uses the same save file system as the original for Dreamcast. This means that if you have the necessary cable or other hardware to connect VMU's to your PC, you can use your old save files on the new release of the game.

Realistically I don't see YSnet doing the same thing for a number of reasons, but it's cool to see that someone did it!

http://steamed.kotaku.com/dreamcast-saves-work-with-the-new-pc-version-of-grandia-1726267619
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Jibby » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:43 am

Plus, it only works so well because the code is pretty much the same as the original Dreamcast version. I'd imagine that getting DC save data to link with a completely new piece of software such as Shenmue III would be a lot more difficult.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Giorgio » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:12 am

It won't be extremely difficult. Ys Net Inc and Neilo Inc have the source code of Shenmue 2. Therefore they are able to know the data structure of a VMU save file (and even a save file from the Xbox version). Therefore, in abstract theory, they can write an algorithm to read those files and get the data they are interested for; especially the items from the inventory (you had in Shenmue 2). It's all a matter of the developers' will to do it.

The difficult part would be for the users to obtain the VMU save file from their Dreamcast (or the one from the Xbox).
To import it to the Steam/PC version of Shenmue 3, would be the easiest way.
To import it to PlayStation 4 (or any other console) would be more difficult. Unless if they made a cloud service, to upload your save file on the net (after you have exported it from your Dreamcast/Xbox and save it on your PC, then upload it on the net) and then download it on your console to be read et cetera.

I bet there are many ways it can be done.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby shengoro86 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:50 am

Giorgio wrote: It won't be extremely difficult. Ys Net Inc and Neilo Inc have the source code of Shenmue 2.
Therefore they are able to know the data structure of a VMU save file (and even a save file from the Xbox version). Therefore, in abstract theory, they can write an algorithm to read those files and get the data they are interested for; especially the items from the inventory (you had in Shenmue 2). It's all a matter of the developers' will to do it.

The difficult part would be for the users to obtain the VMU save file from their Dreamcast (or the one from the Xbox).
To import it to the Steam/PC version of Shenmue 3, would be the easiest way.
To import it to PlayStation 4 (or any other console) would be more difficult. Unless if they made a cloud service, to upload your save file on the net (after you have exported it from your Dreamcast/Xbox and save it on your PC, then upload it on the net) and then download it on your console to be read et cetera.

I bet there are many ways it can be done.


We could also just write a save editor to customize saves too if YSNet doesn't want to. But for PC only obviously.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Monkei » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:53 am

I don't get in the slightest why you guys care about this, why you want it. It's not Mass Effect or The Walking Dead. It's not needed for Shenmue at all.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Hyo Razuki » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:35 am

It's not mandatory, but it definitely enhances your game by a mile if you ask me. One of the biggest reasons why DC version S2 is superior to Xbox version S2, so if we could train up moves and collect items all the way from Yokosuka to S3 it would make it a lot better, imho.

If Sega will make S1 and 2 HD and the save files are compatible with S3, this would become kind of obsolete, though.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Monkei » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:53 am

Okay, I get that. But Shenmue III is going to be an entirely new game, it's being made 14 years later. The fighting system might be quite different (and quite a lot better hopefully) and carrying over trained moves might not make much sense after all. But who knows. Carrying over capsule toys is probably another thing many fans would like, and that I also kinda get. I guess.

Sure, Shenmue III is going to be the third installment, but it's also kind of a fresh start and I still don't think it's necessary for it to be compatible to its predecessors from 14 years ago in any way.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby amiga1200 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:04 am

^^ has a point, to a degree.
seeing both side of the coin, and if that makes me an anti-social SD twat, get in line. :P
...
time has passed, the HD rebuild seems the best of that idea, a triad of games where the saves carry on to the next chapter, .hack on the ps2 is like this.
...
for s3 as a standalone item but obviously still connected, a game UI to player query perhaps?
when the player starts a new game/no save cfg present, they could answer a set of questions beforehand, based on their knowledge/recollection of s1/2.
the more questions are answered correctly, the better the default starting lucky-bag of s1/2 items/skills will be.
fail like some twat did on mastermind a few years ago, totally wasted broadcasters time, didn't answer any of the forty questions posed, then you get nothing in the starting lucky-bag, just the defaults s3 would probably come with anyway.
....
you get the idea, makes sense to me, and at this point, all that counts!
i'm out! :mrgreen:
[edit]
a query db randomized to help reduce repetition and user expoiltation. 8)
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Centrale » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:07 am

Already started a thread about this.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48984
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Yokosuka » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:55 am

Q: Will we start Shenmue 3 with some items/skills/scrolls from Shenmue 1+2?
YS: The platform is different, so unfortunately we can't do it.

https://twitter.com/Murder0usInt/status ... 9840757761

Q: If future installments of Shenmue become a possibility will we have the option to bring over save data from 3?
YS: I have not decided it yet.
YS [some minutes after]: I am not considering it at the moment.

https://twitter.com/Murder0usInt/status ... 6399511556

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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Himuro » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:07 pm

Grandia II uses the same save system because it's a direct port from DC.

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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby amiga1200 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:17 pm

Himuro wrote:Grandia II uses the same save system because it's a direct port from DC.
^^ fair point. (s3 still?)
however, the game would require coding in dreamcast instruction sets from the ground up.
but there's more, and not to go off the beaten track too far.
consider the cpus for the ngc and wii. (IBM dolphin = ngc. IBM broadway = wii)
both the same at the core, but one more efficient, the wii emulates nothing when it comes to ngc games, same for the psp handling converted fileformat psx games.
probably more examples of the backwards compatibility of some systems.
...
if that's gonna work, then a virtual dreamcast2 cpu/hardware environment would need to be created/coded for.
the game would still be a dreamcast game at the core, but there's no way the old dc cpu config (and advanced hw environment vs predecessor) would run it effectively. if at all given the gulf of difference of specs.
...
a save converter could possibly work?
on the other hand, if it's not addressed at the development level yet, may as well kick back and spark up a fatty! :P
[edit]
corrections.
put the cpu names in reverse. :roll:
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Yama » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:22 pm

HD ports would be the easier and better solution. :)
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby Zoltor » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:13 pm

Yama wrote: HD ports would be the easier and better solution. :)


Frankly I don't care about HD ports, and I really wish the Shenmue community would stop asking for HD port, because all that means is asking Sega to take a extra step to do something that Isn't needed.

All we should be asking for, is straightup ports of the dreamcast games(just utilizing the PS4 format for saving).

The Shenmue games are technically already HD anyway, why would you suggest everything be retooled(lol, infact such would probally lead to the super high quality "organically" created heads looking fake/cheesy as hell anyway), it was so ahead of It's time back then, games in the PS3 era barely even matched the graphics in most situations, there's no reason to be trying to make Sega do even more, then what is actually needed.

Even this era's graphic whores shouldn't be turned off by the graphics of the original Shenmue games. What we should be asking, is just to get straight up ports, then Sega doesn't have to do jack except, put them all on a PS4 disc(hell you can even put both games on the same disc, to make publishing a hell of a lot cheaper), remove the disc swapping process from the source code, connect it all together, and recode the save system to the PS4 format of save files.

Boom done, everyone wins. This has a much higher chance of success, then also expecting Sega to spend months retooling the graphics, for some superficial perception of what HD has become these days(remember when HD just mean clean char models/graphics, well now adays all it means, is making everything super artificially brighter, with some fake as all hell "shine" in the most literal sense of the word mind you, and to that, I say screw that).

Sega, just give us ports.
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Re: There may be hope for our save files!

Postby alexh86 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:49 pm

I'm not holding out hope for my Dreamcast save but I do plan to play through the games two more times before Shenmue III comes out. With no hope for a third game at all, I've never bothered to bring a save from my US copy of Shenmue to my EU Shenmue II. Now that the third game is a reality, I will absolutely have a save cleared all the way through the first two games ready to go just in case.

If Sega remasters the first two games, I would expect that they would have a way to upload my save to the PSN cloud and bring it back down for Shenmue III. If the remaster never materializes, I suspect we will never be able to use our saves.
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