E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Kintor » Sun May 15, 2016 6:24 am

Henry Spencer wrote: So basically: "I got nothing".

Persona 5 - Atlus
Total War - Creative Assembly
Valkyria: Azure Revolution - Media Vision

My point was, the last internally developed SEGA Japan game that's worth a damn is basically just Yakuza series, they make little else nowadays and even then we had to fight tooth and nail to actually get the newer games released over here (thanks Sony, no thanks to SEGA). Even Sonic is outsourced now. Phantasy Star Online 2 doesn't count since we never got it.

I can't get into Total War and Football Manager since those games aren't for me (I can't force myself to enjoy sports games as I can't force myself to enjoy PC strategy games; they fit a specific niche). It's kinda silly to say "that's on you, not them" when it only appeals to certain demographics. When I think "SEGA" I don't think of games like that. I think of games like "Virtua Fighter", "Panzer Dragoon", "Sonic", "Shining series", "House of the Dead", "OutRun", "Ristar", "Skies of Arcadia", "Valkyria Chronicles", "Yakuza", "Shenmue", "Phantasy Star", "Streets of Rage", "ToeJam & Earl" - games like that.

And no, I don't hate SEGA, I'm just really disappointed in them nowadays. Even the stuff they are making nowadays they don't want to give us.

So basically, you've missed the point completely. Granted, your question was loaded to begin with but still several examples were provided, showing how Sega continues to create great games today. It's just that now, having been presented with several valid examples; you've decided to play semantics instead by denying that any of these games belong to Sega.

First to all, by definition each of these games rightfully belongs to Sega as a company, they've all been published as part of Sega Sammy Holdings. It's a simple definition but one that's highly effective nonetheless, that is so long as you don't have an axe to grind against Sega and its business practises as a whole. More to the point though, it's worth understanding that Sega continues to expand as a publisher, acquiring new developers and IPs whenever the opportunity presents itself, as has always been the case throughout Sega's history.

Your criticism of Sega's Western development teams is the strangest argument of all. Sega has a long history of encouraging western development alongside the output of their Japanese studios. This was the whole idea behind the Sega Technical Institute in the 90s; which saw the release of great games like Comix Zone, Kid Chameleon and even assisting in the creation of Sonic The Hedgehog 2. Today Sega's Western development teams like Creative Assembly and Relic Entertainment are some of the finest studios in the world, making games that are both highly lucrative and popular amongst gamers.

I understand that Sega is a different looking company today, that shouldn't come as any surprise after 15 as a third-party publisher. There were even pretty big structural differences between the Dreamcast era Sega and the Master System era Sega, that's just the nature of surviving in the fast moving games industry. There have been key people who have left Sega along the way, while whole studios have amalgamated or disbanded entirely. Yet, there have also been a lot of new blood added to Sega as well. Creative Assembly has been part of Sega for over 10 years now and that's worked out splendidly. More recently, Atlus has almost completed work on Persona 5, which might well prove to be one of Sega's biggest JRPGs ever.

So, leading back to Shenmue 1 and 2 HD, the original point of this thread. It's quite reasonable to think that Sega is being sincere in their intention to bring Shenmue to modern platforms. Giving Yu Suzuki the chance to fund Shenmue 3 on Kickstarter was a bold move, unprecedented by any major publisher, and one that has been rewarded by the enthusiasm of Shenmue fans all over the world. Preparing to release Shenmue 1 and 2 HD is a real possibility now, more so then ever before, since interest in the Shenmue franchise is at its greatest level since the Dreamcast days.

I won’t mind if Sega gives the task of porting Shenmue to an internal studio and I certainly won’t be upset if Sega partners with an external team which specialises in old-school ports. M2 has a great relationship with Sega, they’ve handled all the Mega Drive and arcade ports on the 3DS, sourcing everything from the original Sega hardware. There’s also Little Stone Software, who handled the PC port of Valkyria Chronicles. Both external studios, I would trust either to port Shenmue 1 and HD as much as would Sega’s internal teams like AM2 and Creative Assembly.

Kintor has received 2 thanks from: FlagshipFighter, VukBZ2005
User avatar
Kintor
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: June 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Spaghetti » Sun May 15, 2016 7:38 am

I don't think there's really much point making the distinction of "Oh, I meant internal SEGA of Japan development", and then discounting Yakuza entirely when it's a high quality series they're regularly putting out. Kintor is right in saying that ultimately it was a loaded question.

SEGA doesn't put out a whole lot these days, but the games are usually quite good. It's much more preferable to their more prolific period during the mid-2000s when they were a glorified shovelware developer. They're also doing small cool things like the Megadrive/Genesis Collection hub on Steam.

Spaghetti has received a thanks from: VukBZ2005
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Sun May 15, 2016 8:35 am

Henry Spencer wrote: So basically: "I got nothing".

Persona 5 - Atlus
Total War - Creative Assembly
Valkyria: Azure Revolution - Media Vision

My point was, the last internally developed SEGA Japan game that's worth a damn is basically just Yakuza series, they make little else nowadays and even then we had to fight tooth and nail to actually get the newer games released over here (thanks Sony, no thanks to SEGA). Even Sonic is outsourced now. Phantasy Star Online 2 doesn't count since we never got it.

I can't get into Total War and Football Manager since those games aren't for me (I can't force myself to enjoy sports games as I can't force myself to enjoy PC strategy games; they fit a specific niche). It's kinda silly to say "that's on you, not them" when it only appeals to certain demographics. When I think "SEGA" I don't think of games like that. I think of games like "Virtua Fighter", "Panzer Dragoon", "Sonic", "Shining series", "House of the Dead", "OutRun", "Ristar", "Skies of Arcadia", "Valkyria Chronicles", "Yakuza", "Shenmue", "Phantasy Star", "Streets of Rage", "ToeJam & Earl" - games like that.

And no, I don't hate SEGA, I'm just really disappointed in them nowadays. Even the stuff they are making nowadays they don't want to give us.


I'm on the same boat, I grew up playing nothing but SEGA games during their golden age.
Despite being heavily disappointed with them, I would probably still camp outside for the release of a new console.

The company has no idea how to approach the west, their strategy is to put all marketing efforts on Sonic even if they know the game they are selling is utter trash while sitting on countless dormant IPs that their old fans want. This has destroyed their brand and their mascot, making a once gaming giant completely irrelevant in the eyes of most gamers.

Yakuza is the only AAA game they make and they don't even care enough about it to try to selling it here. Once again, it's Sony that has to go out their way to get these games in the west. It's lunacy.

killthesagabeforeitkillsu has received a thanks from: VukBZ2005
User avatar
killthesagabeforeitkillsu
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: July 2008

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Kintor » Sun May 15, 2016 9:24 am

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote:The company has no idea how to approach the west, their strategy is to put all marketing efforts on Sonic even if they know the game they are selling is utter trash while sitting on countless dormant IPs that their old fans want. This has destroyed their brand and their mascot, making a once gaming giant completely irrelevant in the eyes of most gamers

Not to put too fine a point on it but Sega is actually doing quite well in the West. Since the discontinuation of the Dreamcast Sega has been aggressively acquiring Western development teams. Certainly, some of these acquisitions didn't work out, namely Secret Level (Iron Man and the Golden Axe reboot) which is sadly no longer with us. Over all though Sega has gone from strength to strength in the West. For example, thanks to the combined efforts of Creative Assembly and Relic Entertainment as internal studios, Sega is now a PC gaming powerhouse. Heck, I'm planning to put together a new gaming PC rig just so I can play Dawn of War 3 on max settings (For the Emperor!).
User avatar
Kintor
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: June 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby mrandyk » Sun May 15, 2016 9:17 pm

Shenmue 3 absolutely gets some time at E3, but I'm skeptical of a trailer being available - no need to give more raw tech demo trailers at this point as that would just hurt the hype. Perhaps a few still frames and a mention during Sony's keynote to keep the project in the public's mind and hopefully get some further donations.

mrandyk has received a thanks from: FlagshipFighter
mrandyk
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: August 2009

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Spaghetti » Mon May 16, 2016 4:39 am

https://twitter.com/CedricBiscay/status ... 7449559040

Re-confirmation that nothing is planned for E3. Cedric said as much during MAGIC, and has little reason to play games with people about this, so we can accept what he says at face value I think.

Not to say they won't put together a KS update over the next month for an E3 launch, but again, anybody expecting a showing on Sony's stage better temper their expectations.

Spaghetti has received 2 thanks from: Amir, FlagshipFighter
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby FlagshipFighter » Mon May 16, 2016 6:42 am

Spaghetti wrote:https://twitter.com/CedricBiscay/status/730754247449559040

Re-confirmation that nothing is planned for E3. Cedric said as much during MAGIC, and has little reason to play games with people about this, so we can accept what he says at face value I think.

Not to say they won't put together a KS update over the next month for an E3 launch, but again, anybody expecting a showing on Sony's stage better temper their expectations.


Ah cool, I'm glad he said that! It will allow us to appreciate the conferences on their own merits rather than anxiously waiting for Shenmue news to be mentioned at every passing moment.

Cedric, you truly are a man amongst men! :-)

Hopefully though this will be the year of SEGA making a comeback, there seems to be strong signs of a resurgence there.
User avatar
FlagshipFighter
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: UK
PSN: FlagshipFighter
XBL: FlagshipFighter
Steam: FlagshipFighter
Favorite title: Shenmue IIx

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby GYO6161 » Mon May 16, 2016 7:04 am

So no shenmue 3 this E3 and considering Sega its just "investigating"a potential HD collection then no Hd collection either.... that's a shame.... guess I'll skip live streaming this E3.
User avatar
GYO6161
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: September 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue IIx
Currently playing: God of War

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Hanzumon » Mon May 16, 2016 10:02 am

No Shenmue on E3 would be a disappointment!!!
User avatar
Hanzumon
Master of the Three Blades
Master of the Three Blades
 
Joined: October 2015
Location: Germany
Favorite title: Shenmue IIx
Currently playing: lollipop chainsaw

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby SMDzero » Mon May 16, 2016 3:07 pm

ShenmuE3

You gotta believe!

SMDzero has received 2 thanks from: FlagshipFighter, Yama
SMDzero
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: June 2015

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Centrale » Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Henry Spencer wrote:My point was, the last internally developed SEGA Japan game that's worth a damn is basically just Yakuza series


Sure, I'm familiar with the contingent of Sega haters who argue that only internally-developed games are "real" Sega games. The problem is, it's completely at odds with how Sega has always operated. They've always worked with other developers... back to the days when they published Frogger (developed by Konami), and prior to that when they worked with Gremlin on numerous titles. Even classic 16-bit franchises like Ecco, Toe Jam and Earl, Vectorman etc., were from other developers. Everyone who considers the 90s era to be the definitive Sega, I just shake my head as the first Sega game I played and loved (as a little kid) was 1979's Monaco GP... followed by Turbo, Zaxxon, Sub-Roc 3D, Planet of Zoom, the list goes on. So, take it how you want it. I think it's some kind of mental complex that people have that makes them think they know what Sega is or isn't, should or shouldn't do. Obviously no one who is a Sega fan started off thinking they were an expert on their business operations. I suggest making a conscious effort to getting back to the state of open-mindedness that allowed you to become a fan to begin with. And if you don't like anything Sega is currently doing, find new developers to be emotionally invested in rather than wasting energy being angry about Sega. Now, lemme give ya a hug. :lol:
User avatar
Centrale
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: June 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Peter » Mon May 16, 2016 7:03 pm

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sonys- ... 0-6439858/

Sony have just announced their conference, with the same slot as last year.

I know Cedric is a good guy, and may not have anything planned for E3. Shenmue may not be at E3. But there's no harm in looking forward to it none the less. Even to get those feels from last year. Sony have earned my attention, even if it's not Shenmue related. But there's no harm in hoping for a smoke screen. No harm in hoping for a last minute change. No harm in plans being altered. People love to act the sensible police at times, don't do this, you shouldn't do that. People can do what they want. If anyone wants to get hyped for Shenmue being at E3 then go ahead. It's not as if someones going to jump off of a cliff if Shenmue doesn't make an appearance. E3 will always be synonymous with Shenmue now, thanks to its ironic years of "will Shenmue be at E3?" and finally the sweet release and lifelong memories after last year's madness. I will be excited for June no matter what, I am hyped with or without Shenmue. There's nothing wrong with being excited. We have a year and a halfs opportunity left of excitement for what could or could not lie ahead, and I fully intend to take each one. Will I be sad or depressed if there's no Shenmue 3 at E3? Hell no!! Why? Because we have Shenmue 3 to look forward to anyways.

Peter has received a thanks from: Kiske
User avatar
Peter
Shenmue Dojo Owner
Shenmue III
 
Joined: February 2004
Location: Belfast
PSN: TheGasmeter
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Shenmue 2x

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby FlagshipFighter » Mon May 16, 2016 7:08 pm

@Centrale: This is an interesting topic, being a huge Sega fan with the dreamcast and their IP's growing up, I always saw them as the innovators, the ones being daring and taking huge risks and I always wonder what they would be like today if they were still in operation. Seeing passionate fans on YouTube who discuss their passion for Sega and nostalgia only fuels this.

A couple of years before Shenmue 3 got announced felt frustrating for me as their flagship titles were few and far between and with Sega making poor decisions on so many things then (marketing on bayonetta/vanquish/VC, not treating their existing IPs like sonic and golden axe with any care, aliens colonial marines etc) was infuriating fans and surely embarrassing for them. This was me concealing a fan rage inside, but only because I was so darn passionate of their brand and what they stood for and use to be.

Ever since Shenmue 3 got announced though and reading 'the rise and fall of SEGA' on kindle (it came with a humble bundle) I feel like I understood them more objectively. I still respect what they did and even today what they do (with allowing others to use their IPs with Shenmue, Toe Jam and Earl) but I no longer yearn for a dreamcast 2 being our saviour in gaming, and really no matter how much they managed to turn things around they simply weren't fit to run at the capacity to compete, unfortunately too many questionable decisions with consoles, investments (theme parks) and hiring unfit employees did too much harm as well as the difficulty in transitionig from arcades.

But if Sega were to be successful with the dreamcast, I personally don't think it would have continued to be the utopia we envision in our heads. They would have jumped onto many current trends we see today as they did back then, but not the great ones. Can you imagine them trying to be the 'cool' and hip ones with today's singers and 'arcade-like' business practices we've seen in microtransactions?

This all also makes me somewhat respect Nintendo hanging in there for this long. Say what you will about them (I've never really been a fan) but there business is much better setup to handle the disastrous and unpredictable waves of the gaming industry than how 'all or nothing' Sega was.

Regardless of all the ballyhoo above, what makes me excited about the present and beyond is I think both Sega and Nintendo are going through a Renaissance-like period, where they have finally managed to transition from their past selves and adapt for relevancy. I'm anticipating big things for Sega this E3! :)
User avatar
FlagshipFighter
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: March 2012
Location: UK
PSN: FlagshipFighter
XBL: FlagshipFighter
Steam: FlagshipFighter
Favorite title: Shenmue IIx

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby Spaghetti » Mon May 16, 2016 7:29 pm

No matter what, as always I'm probably going to spend the whole night awake watching E3 when I should be asleep.

Spaghetti has received a thanks from: FlagshipFighter
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: E3 2016 & Shenmue 3

Postby SMDzero » Tue May 17, 2016 1:18 am

Shenmue 3 is nearly a full year into development but the game needs A LOT of work so it's not in showable condition now.

Here's a report on the build so far:

For a game originally based on a fighting game series, Shenmue has an irregularly deep back-story. This long-running tale of revenge that maintains balance between fetch quests and free battles has been in development hell for around 15 years. While the series has more than its share of detractors, both games in the series have been rather good. Today, however, the Shenmue mythos has lost a great deal of steam. Shenmue 2X wasn't received particularly well, and the series' first "online" entry, Shenmue: Online, wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms, either. Still, you got the impression that the people working on the games genuinely cared about them and took the time to ensure that the storyline maintained most of its continuity. Shenmue 3 contains none of this, resulting in holes in the plot, slapdash level design, and a general sense of "Let's just make sure the game doesn't crash so we can get it on store shelves and earn back at least a little bit of the kickstarter money we spent" on YSnet's part.

Shenmue 3's instruction manual claims that the game strives to fill in some of the blanks about the rivalry between Ryo and Lan Di. But the game really creates more questions than it answers. For instance, if this is supposed to take place after the second Shenmue game, why does Ryo have a gun, which he never had in Shenmue 1 and 2? Possible continuity problems aside, Shenmue 3 is decidedly low on story. The game opens with a '70s kung fu-show-style intro movie, and from there, cinematics of any kind are extremely hard to come by. Between levels, you're given a small bit of story progression via radio transmissions that take place between Ryo and Shenhua. Shenhua stays behind at her house, while you, as Ryo, plod through several locales, beat the pulp out of numerous thugs, struggle to find keys, hit switches, and fight bosses. You're given many of Ryo's standard attacks right off the bat, but executing special moves such as the pit-blow punch and tornado kick use up a portion of your special meter, which is replenished by executing combos. Defeating enemies earns you experience points, and every time you level up, you're given a new combo move. The combos are button-tapping combos, though they require little to no sense of timing at all - just hit the buttons in the proper order, and you'll execute the "git some suka" or "super uppercut" moves with ease. As if having to use a combo called "git some suka" weren't bad enough, Ryo occasionally does a bit of trash talking when you execute a combo. This means you'll get to hear Ryo say "Want some fries with that whoop-ass?" significantly more than you want to. As you progress, the combos become more and more devastating, some of them even ending in fatalities, provided that the enemy's life bar runs out as you're delivering the final hits.

The game is really driven by collecting items. To progress, you'll need to find tons of keys, security passes, and the like. The game is seen from a multitude of seemingly random camera angles, none of which give you a clear-cut view of the action. In fact, the later levels are downright frustrating - almost all your enemies are armed, and they can see (not to mention shoot) you long before you have any idea that they even exist. They rarely miss, so your only options are to run in the direction of the shots until you see the enemies, pull out a weapon of your own, and spray fire in the general direction of the shots or use the game's atrocious first-person mode. If you're armed, you can use first-person mode to more accurately direct your fire, but it's limited in that zooming in with the sniper rifle doesn't affect the draw-in distance. So if an enemy is out of your normal sight, zooming in won't help at all.



In a word, Shenmue 3 is ugly. The models are blocky, and the textures are horrifically muddy. Occasionally, walls burst at the seams, and the clipping is also fairly random. Backing that up is the sort of soundtrack that demands to be silenced. The music is overly repetitive, the sound effects are drab, and the voice work is dull and uninspired.

Even at a semi-bargain price of $19.99, Shenmue 3 isn't worth your time, let alone the money fans poured into it. Even die-hard Shenmue fans will be sorely disappointed with Yu Suzuki's latest offering, so we'll just have to wait and see if the Shenmue series can recover from this near-fatal blow.

SMDzero has received 2 thanks from: -=SPZ=-47, FlagshipFighter
SMDzero
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: June 2015

PreviousNext

Return to Shenmue III

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2000-
ShenmueDojo.net