Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full attention

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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:58 pm

shredingskin wrote: The licensing stuff can be about the tech, like some guys said a long time ago, who knows.

I know I said that they'll probably would release it after SIII, but now for some reason I think they won't be that stupid.

Nah. One guy said it on a forum, and was never substantiated elsewhere. The story got passed around a lot and got traction that way, but there was never any evidence it was tech-related outside just what one person had to say.

Besides, SEGA aren't really hiding why it's taking time. It's the tie-in marketing licencing that's the problem along with their commitment to releasing a high quality remaster as close to the Dreamcast originals as possible.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Shenmue_Trilogy » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:08 pm

Why not just use fake names/logos or complete different names/logs to get around the licensing thing?
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Peter » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:58 pm

Spaghetti wrote: They've said from the start they wanted to preserve the games as close to the Dreamcast originals as possible.

This is really just a continuation of that, and further confirmation they're trying to undo the legal knot of the tie-in brands. If they don't get the licencing, then they'll do the texture replacements where needed. I'm actually slightly proud of SEGA for not taking the easiest option available.

I would not be surprised if they are working on it silently, but can't announce it until the licence issue is straight up put to bed one way or another.

No real reason to be doom mongering about this. They've stated their intention to make it happen, have given us a clear answer about what the hold up is, and have continually reaffirmed they absolutely want to do it.

This isn't like six-seven years ago when we got excited when SEGA brought up Shenmue unprompted. Their European COO has gone on record saying it's a project with significant support inside of the company "with [their] full attention".



Doom mongering eh? Thats the 2005 forum speak for, "hey if you dont share my positive opinion then you shouldnt speak at all" .

Doom mongering, negativity, scepticism... whatever you want to call it, i dont change any thoughts or opinions i have to make others feel better. I never have. I base those thoughts and opinions on facts. Let try and get to the facts:

- Sega turned their backs on Shenmue a very long time ago, and have avoided it like a cancer ever since. Shenmue Online and Shenmue Gai were no different to what Yu has achieved last year. Just letting out the IP without losing a dime so that someone else can take the risk. They havent had any faith in Shenmue since it essentially bombed them financially until Uncle Sammy swooped in and merge them nicely into their piggy banks. On top of that, they havent been shy on flashing their hand about Shenmue.
Dreamcast remasters have been few and far between, but they have been a priority once upon a time. However we all loved how Ben Harbourne reacted oh so lovingly when prompted about what titles fans most requested for a remaster, barely keeping a straight face when he said Shenmue. We all know the story about Blitworks, and if they really wanted to have shown faith in Shenmue, they would have offered the company a lot more money than what they did, ultimately slapping Shenmue in the face since they had to pull the plug on it. Tell tale signs are already there, and why i have a hard time now listening to how they "want to do it justice". They certainly didnt 5 years ago!

- Ok. Ok. So we have had this rumbling from fans on twitter for a long while now, and Yu has gotten some financial muscle. Lets give him the license and see what he can do with a Shenmue 3, and BOOM Sony announce it! Amazing!!! What did Sega do? Fuck all. Nothing. Zip. Not even a word!! No corporate release. No interviews, statements or articles. Not even a TWEET promoting the Kickstarter, or Yu Suzuki. A man who essentially made them a dominant force in the arcades throughout the 80s, and set gaming trend history in the 90s. A simple post on social media costs nothing, and with their position as a brand name, have so much influence. But still nothing. Sega had a chance to act, and help Yu and Shenmue. They gave him the license yes, but they didnt promote it one bit.

- If they had no faith in Shenmue, i can understand why. It lost a business money, which is a bad investment and discontinued production on any further instalments in the franchise. That i can accept and understand, even if i dont agree with. But Shenmue 3 broke records, and literally proved that there is money in Shenmue. There are people across the globe who hold it that fondly that they gave millions for a game to be created by essentially an unknown and also unproven development team. Their passion was so immense, that it spread to their friends, with so many accounts of people backing this without never have playing the first two games before! There is the stats Sega. So what have they done? They released a T-Shirt and a button badge to be sold at TGS 2015 just to make a few Yen.

They are now almost 15 months into the future, and STILL not a thing done. Its not greenlit for production. If its not greenlit, then there has been no team selected to work on the games period.

Now i am not a businessman, nor am i a games creator, but i do think i am fairly logical, so im gonna give this a shot here, and run with my train of thought:


If Sega wanted to really do a Shenmue and Shenmue 2 HD remaster, then they would have started last year. Logically explain the 15 month delay before a COO saying, "it has their full attention."? It had 6.3 million reasons to have their full attention 15 months ago, and still nothing. If they did want to develop remasters then this process should have started last July. To the licencing issue that they are now rambling on about, i say this. Fuck licencing. Thats almost a non issue. There is absolutely NO reason that a few names hidden within this massive game should be holding it back from the million and one other things that it takes to get this game made. Its no excuse whatsoever that this one reason is keeping the game from not only letting a new modern day audience enjoy it, as well as boost the franchise for future games to come. If they wanted this game to live up to its predecessors then they should have had a team working on this from last year when they had the maximum amount of time from pre-production to release. Build it from the ground up if thats what they want to do. The point is they had the time if they started last year. Artists and programmers dont negotiate licencing contracts and product placement terms, so whilst they are working on a non licenced version of the game, the litigation team go out and set up meetings with TIMEX, Saporro, Case Logic, Hitachi, Coca-Cola, and whoever else they have to. Get on a place and go meet these various company reps. its not rocket science, even if i am simplifying it.
If the agreements get reached, then great! Put all of the items in the game as is, and have it ready to release 2016, or even 2017 if need be. If the licences do not get agreed? Then simply reskin the vending machines. Rebrand the TIMEX. Remove Hitachi from any devices and have them generic, and make any other necessary changes. The games being out in the public sooner give it more time to reach as many people as possibly can. That then increases sales of Shenmue 3. By a little or by a lot, so what. It makes a difference. Instead, 15 months later and 15 months from the Shenmue 3 current release date, we are still getting excuses and empty promises. Sega is WAY past the point of words for me, and any other Shenmue fan worth its salt. The time for putting up has been around for a very long time now, and it is STILL not even "greenlit".

Doom and gloom, negativity, whatever. Thats how i see it based on what i have witnessed over the past 14 years and still, with this article, Sega continue to have us read between their lines for hope. Whats changed? Nothing.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Puffin_Chronic » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:22 pm

So true! 15 years of treating us fans like they did the visionary who created the masterpiece, relegating us to the back corner office with no windows!

No more bullshit Sega, 15 years of it, we can see through your empty promises. DO something instead of the misleading lies.

You're gonna update the graphics right? So make up new names for the coke or timex or ANYTHING. 15 years, you think were hanging on your words???? Fans had to give funding directly to Yu to get 3 done. The best Sega did was allow him to use the license that he created. So they get a stake in profit and do fuck all! Fuck todays Sega, all these years made me bitter to them, and its well justified!

These won't get made, not now, not after 3. Sega is Sega...End.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Yokosuka » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:36 pm

punkmanced wrote: Oh FFS, enough with these lame duck excuses already.

What f*cking licenses?
It’s called “Jet Cola”, and it was in Shenmue 1. Problem solved.

Start remastering now; worry about the BS later. Worse comes to worst, no one will lose any sleep over Ryo’s fancy new “Rhymex” watch and “Face Logic” backpack.

...or just come out with the real reasons for not having done this sh*t sooner.


Yeah, it's really the worst answer they could deliver. If it's true, Sega is basically showing their stupidity to the world by ending in a terrible situation for negotiations.

Unfortunately, it smells like a political speech aiming to keep a good opinion from the fans and gamers before things get worse.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Yokosuka Martian » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:11 pm

I will forever be an optimist, Pete my man. We eventually got Shenmue III so Shenmue HD will definitely happen
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Peter » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:43 pm

I know you will bud, and I will never tell anyone to stop believing or hoping.

But I can't just let Sega throw out their usual drivel, and string Shenmue fans along. The time for action was yesterday, and they are still pissing into the wind when it comes to Shenmue.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby punkmanced » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:51 pm

Spaghetti wrote: No real reason to be doom mongering about this. They've stated their intention to make it happen, have given us a clear answer about what the hold up is, and have continually reaffirmed they absolutely want to do it.


OK.
Which do you think is more likely?

A) 14+months of tough negotiations, careful planning and serious discussions…over a Timex license.

B) The **********ers at Sega feeding us BS excuses in an attempt to save face after wasting precious time and opportunity.

Yeah, yeah, we’ll prob. get the Remasters before the franchise turns 25, but the idea was to do it before S3's release (for obvious reasons), something which is looking less and less likely by the day.

Not even greenlit, huh? Serious strategy at work right there.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:53 pm

Peter wrote:*snip*

Sorry I can't address everything you've said, but I'll try and get it in a catch-all.

SEGA absolutely would not be talking about Shenmue HD like this if they had zero intention of making it happen. They would be ignoring it or deflecting the conversation every time it came up, just like they did with Shenmue III for over a decade.

They gave us clear intent of their desire for HD remasters through their European social media manager earlier in the year, and then SEGA Europe's COO reiterated that without prompt. These weren't fumbled, shy, misworded comments like the time that SEGA rep casually mentioned Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia when doing press for the Jet Set Radio remaster. These are direct statements of intent, with the specific elaboration of what the hold up is.

Yes, I'm frustrated too that it's taking this long, but we can't assume SEGA can snap their fingers and make those companies honour licencing agreements from almost 20 years ago.

The thing disgruntled former SEGA fans like me and you have been telling them for years is that they don't respect their legacy, and it seems they've learned from that. Like it or not, them striving to release the HD remasters as close to the Dreamcast originals as possible is a part of the process of them trying to do right by fans, even if it doesn't seem like it right now.

They've consistently said they are dedicated to doing a Shenmue HD remaster right, and by their definition that means attempting the Herculean effort of bringing those licenced companies around the table and working out a new deal. If it doesn't work out, they'll just retexture, but they're at least trying to make it work.

The waiting sucks, but these statements are so detailed, and coming from so high up the corporate food chain, that there's no way they weren't coming from a place of knowledge that work is being done.

We shouldn't be tearing our hair out over the continued absence of Shenmue HD, really, because SEGA's most recent comments on the matter are the most definitive statements on the matter we've had in four years. In fact, we should be rejoicing in the fact they're finally coming from someone higher in rank than a social media manager, who's job it is to placate antsy fans like us.

Patience should come naturally for Shenmue fans, but I guess the very rapid revival of the series has made us all too eager to see results in a timely fashion. All we can do is wait, and keep reminding them every third of the month how much we want these HD remasters.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby south carmain » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:58 pm

To be honest you both make good points and I wouldnt say either is right or wrong based on the info and experiemces we have ao far.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:41 pm

south carmain wrote: To be honest you both make good points and I wouldnt say either is right or wrong based on the info and experiemces we have ao far.

I mean yeah, it's a crapshoot with SEGA because for every time they do something cool (i.e mod support in the PC version of the MegaDrive Collection), they sit on their ass and let clear opportunities pass them by.

I think in this case it's safe to assume they're actually doing something because they're talking about it, unlike with say, VF6/VF5:FS remaster to PC/PS4/XBO, or Yakuza coming to PC where there's nothing but silence.

EDIT: Then again SEGA have been known to do weird stuff without talking about it either, like the sudden revival of Valkyria Chronicles. So, I revert to my first statement. It's kind of impossible to guess with SEGA, sometimes.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby MaxTheRabbit » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:09 pm

I don't see what they would stand to gain by BSing the fans if they were never going to do it - I'm inclined to take the article at face value
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby GYO6161 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:05 am

MaxTheRabbit wrote: I don't see what they would stand to gain by BSing the fans if they were never going to do it - I'm inclined to take the article at face value

Maybe they just want good publicity and keeping sega looking good at the eyes of the fans but they been doing this for so long none of the fans are buying it anymore. So its kinda ridiculous if they are still going at it with empty teasin.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby Kintor » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:07 am

GYO6161 wrote: Maybe they just want good publicity and keeping sega looking good at the eyes of the fans but they been doing this for so long none of the fans are buying it anymore. So its kinda ridiculous if they are still going at it with empty teasin.

Times have changed since E3 2015, Shenmue 3 is now a reality and what's more the whole Shenmue franchise is redeemed as a commercially viable IP in the eyes of the games industry. There's already lots of new Shenmue merchandise in the works and every reason to believe that Sega is keen to capitalise on the situation by finally creating HD versions of Shenmue 1 and 2. So, I think that these comments from Sega of Europe are sincere in their intention to bring Shenmue 1 and 2 to modern platforms. I'd hardly expect that sort of announcement to be made in a magazine interview but this nod to Shenmue is still welcome news none the less.
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Re: Sega Europe: Shenmue 1 and 2 remakes have our full atten

Postby SMDzero » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:07 am

At this point I'd sooner expect Shenmue 64 than the remasters anytime soon.

F*ck Sega.

I wish they would hurry up and die off so that their IP's can be sold to decent companies.
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