Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:06 pm

That said, I don't have a problem with the forklift picture. It looks like a mini-game with toys to me, and I'm not at all trying to look at this with rose tinted glasses. It's not the most exciting screenshot ever, but I'm not sure what's so controversial about it. Ryo awkwardly posed with a poorly-Photoshopped head is more troubling to me.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Cyberman » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:10 pm

Those graphics are jaw dropping.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:14 pm

Kiske wrote: Funny/curious fact:
Not a single tweet or retweet about the PC pre-orders and Kickstarter update by Cédric Biscay so far...

After PSX I think he's maybe stepped into the shadows a bit on the subject of Shenmue III. Can't blame him.

mjq jazz bar wrote:Come on, man. It's okay to be critical once in a while. I don't think it was meant to acknowledge anything; they didn't expressly say it's a Photoshopped image. It looks dumb and it'll be the next thing the braying masses criticize, if the braying masses care about criticizing Shenmue anymore. I don't know very much about 3D modeling, but is it really THAT hard to get his face right after a year or two of "development"? I think they would've been better off not showing his face at all.

I've said before that it doesn't look right and could have been handled better, but it's not a huge deal. They didn't go "hey, photoshop a Ryo render face onto that head for funsies" either. It was a conscious decision that maybe should have gone in a different direction, but it was intended to send a message that they're still committed to getting it right.

Also, don't say you don't know very much about 3D modelling in the same sentence as "it shouldn't be that hard". It kind of defeats the purpose of your statement, y'know?

If the sole focus of Shenmue III was getting Ryo's face right, it would have been done ages ago. There are lots of elements of game development to juggle, and not all of them get a high priority when you have limited resources and are just developing the prototype. They put a big emphasis on "work in progress" in the KS update for a very good reason.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Gavan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:14 pm

The temple image looks great. Not a fan of Photoshopped Ryo but other than that the fighting scene picture looks pretty good. The picture with the cows and forklift is... weird. :lol:
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Nahovil » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:16 pm

shredingskin wrote: I'm starting to like the screens more, but those were odd choices, I think these scream a lot more Shenmue:

Image
Image

More ingamey I guess.



I agree. Ryo failing to fully acknowledge a female presence really does bring it back.


Unfortunately, it has been too common seeing that they're spending the time on producing HDR imagery and intricate texturing, only to collage an image of Ryo's original face onto a new 3D model, as an example in misdriven effort out of many.
Confidently, unlike what it has been conveyed until now, they won't sacrifice what the game really was in terms of pace, timing, simplicity and overall atmosphere for highly detailed, glowing, nice and pretty little pictures as that isn't what makes this game.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby sand4fish » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:18 pm

iyapol wrote:
sand4fish wrote: If people are disappointed with the "photoshopped Ryo" I can't imagine what the original one would do for the fans. Maybe pitchforks and torches? So good move there by Yu in my opinion.


I think no screenshot of Ryo is better than a Photoshopped screenshot of Ryo. By editing the protagonist's face and sharing it with the world, they're opening themselves up to avoidable scrutiny.


I'm not gonna lie and say I'm happy with what I'm looking at and I would agree with you, if not for the sheer pressure on the team by some fans to have constant updates on any little detail of the game's development (specially character models). No matter what course of action the team took they would be scrutinized, and I really believe by "photoshopping" they leave a certain mystery for most whether it's truly a photoshop and whether Yu is trying to follow the original art direction from the previous games (regarding characters at least). It's just something for fans to chew on and speculate meanwhile until Yu has a solid video to present to the public.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Yokosuka » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:19 pm

Hazuki00 wrote: Am I the only one who thinks they are giving us dated material? For me it's as if they were dated material on purpose, I'm sure they are more advanced than we think and don't want to show how the game looks right now in order to impact more when they release a trailer...


We were many to think so about the February screens but Cedric said that they belonged to the current build. YSnet has always be honest with us so I think the game is what it is at the current time.

I looked again at the today screens and, no way, I still find them ugly.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Anonymous81 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:21 pm

To me, the photoshopped face is definitely an indication of proof of concept and intended direction. They're clearly focusing on graphical touches last. Including the character models. I know that's what we all want to see because the characters are so beloved and them feeling right is so very important to us as fans. But in practical reality, imho at least, that's the last thing they should be focusing on if they're only now exiting R&D and testing as they said in this update.

I followed Dreamfall Chapters' development as well, and Zoe's character model and face and hair were super controversial and took forever to be finalized. Everyone nitpicked just like they have been here (which is everyone's prerogative and totally understandable - I'm not telling anyone not to) but... it really does take a lower priority at this stage than getting systems and mechanics and the design doc right. That's what will ensure they are on track to hitting their milestones and getting the product they envision out the door eventually.

Graphics are important to us because they are the only thing we can see that isn't just an abstraction - they are in many respects, for us, what the game IS. But to Ys, there are more important things to tackle right now. I really don't think they're going to photoshop a face on there... and then release something that doesn't measure up to that vision. They're not stupid, or intentionally disingenuous imo.

But again, to each their own reaction.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:24 pm

Nahovil wrote:Unfortunately, it has been too common seeing that they're spending the time on producing HDR imagery and intricate texturing, only to collage an image of Ryo's original face onto a new 3D model, as an example in misdriven effort out of many.

Going to dig up the workflow slide to give context to this again. The function testing bit is effectively the period we've come out of, the prototyping.

Image

This should elaborate why game world elements have current priority over character models. It's also a bigger job than working on a character model, which is why it has been loaded towards the earlier part of development rather than the latter.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby shredingskin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:32 pm

Anonymous81 wrote: I followed Dreamfall Chapters' development as well, and Zoe's character model and face and hair were super controversial and took forever to be finalized.


Yeah, I liked the first concept more (the more realistic one), but was true that she didn't looked like the zoe we all knew.

BTW, never finished playing the game, It kinda bored me at the 3rd book.

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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Rikitatsu » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:39 pm

Spaghetti wrote:
Nahovil wrote:Unfortunately, it has been too common seeing that they're spending the time on producing HDR imagery and intricate texturing, only to collage an image of Ryo's original face onto a new 3D model, as an example in misdriven effort out of many.

Going to dig up the workflow slide to give context to this again. The function testing bit is effectively the period we've come out of, the prototyping.

Image

This should elaborate why game world elements have current priority over character models. It's also a bigger job than working on a character model, which is why it has been loaded towards the earlier part of development rather than the latter.

What do you think the 3D character modelers have been doing so far, If I may ask?

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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby shredingskin » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:42 pm

We don't know if they have specifically character modelers in the team.

They may be using a third party solution and bring another guy later for all we know.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Rikitatsu » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:43 pm

shredingskin wrote: We don't know if they have specifically character modelers in the team.

They may be using a third party solution and bring another guy later for all we know.

We know for a fact that they hired an Ex-AM2 character modeler.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Jibby » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:47 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:P.S: If that were a bean bag toss board, where are the holes?

Not all of them have holes. This seems like a variation where you stand back and see how far up the board you can land the beanbag (hence the score markers). I imagine it controlling similar to darts.

I genuinely fail to see how you don't think this is a minigame. Why on earth would they have a random wooden board with score markers next to what is clearly modeled and textured to be a toy just for the sake of it? They wouldn't!

Image

We already have minigames for Baisha Village confirmed. That means they will have already been designed and the assets will already be created & placed in the game world. The shot shows gamelike mechanics (e.g. scores and toys) and is clearly taking place in a rural village (i.e. Baisha). Minigames are also a signature feature of any Shenmue game. Connect the dots here, it couldn't be any more obvious that this is a preview of one of the minigames.
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Re: Kickstarter Update #63: Campaign and Progress Update

Postby Spaghetti » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Rikitatsu wrote:What do you think the 3D character modelers have been doing so far, If I may ask?

They've been doing work. I never said they hadn't.

But we don't know how the workload is split. We don't know if they're working on the game full-time while in the prototype phase. We don't know how many other models have needed to be worked on. We do know the game world has taken priority first though, and the results are self-evident.

Here's the thing though, they have done work on Ryo's model. We haven't seen the face yet for one reason or another, but the forklift shot is our best indicator that work has been done because of new modelling and texture work on Ryo's legs and shoes.

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