Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

(Chapter 7 and beyond)

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby sand4fish » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:59 pm

gillian_seed wrote:What's the role of the backers then?, just to put the money and wait? Just a reminder, the headline of Shenmue 3's website is:

Shenmue 3
will be for the fans,
by the fans
- yu suzuki



The short answer is yes. The game is being made thanks to the fans, and that's all that there is to that headline. Be careful to what you think you are entitled to as a backer. That argument has been fought over to death in this forum last year with even some members willing to threaten YsNet if their demands were not met. The point is: backers are not investors and Yu doesn't work for the fans. You can read the KICKSTARTER 101 if you are unsure about how it works.

gillian_seed wrote:Besides, every single tier from KS campaign included, as a reward: "Be able to participate in surveys and vote in polls for the ideas you want to see in the game.". As far as I remember, the only survey we have taken part is that one for deciding to keep or not the exclusive rewards for Kickstarter backers. Nothing else. That's definitely not keeping their promises, and unilaterally changing the classic logo to that shitty one that 9 out of 10 people dislike means that they give a shit about the fans.


How are they not keeping promises? They didn't say that would be the only survey throughout the entire game development. Besides, the new logo was a conscious design choice by the game's director and not a part of a survey/poll as far I know. And they give a shit about the fans already with these frequent video updates as they cost time and money for Ysnet, which is not even an obligation for them to do so.
User avatar
sand4fish
"After Burner...Great!"
"After Burner...Great!"
 
Joined: November 2013
Favorite title: Shenmue

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Riku Rose » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:02 pm

I’m expexting that it will be a lot like The Last Guardian. People went mad when that game was reannounced the same show as Shenmue III. Just like that I imagine the sales will be okish, it won’t light up the sales chart and a week after it’s announced the conversation amongst gamers will have moved to something else. When Shenmue I & II came out we wasn’t getting a big game every week like we do now, unless you’re an online game that offers new content every week people stop talking about you quite quick in today’s market.

In terms of how the game gets received. Yet again I think it’ll be like the Last Guardian, the game will most likely have some major issues which make it an unenjoyable game for a lot of people. There will also be those that can look past the faults and find things to love about it like the first two games and fall in love. Leaving it with about a 50/50 of people who love and those who don’t. There will be people who refuse to see any faults, when the Sonic racing game came out I remember people on this forum saying it’s the best game ever just because it had Ryo in it.

Overall will it deliver? I think those that liked the first two games will like it but it won’t convince people who aren’t a fan of games like Shenmue. So it’ll deliver for those that have wanted Shenmue III all these years.
User avatar
Riku Rose
Shenmue III
Shenmue III
 
Joined: February 2006
Location: Kent, England
Currently playing: Yakuza 6

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Hyo Razuki » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:06 am

gillian_seed wrote:
sand4fish wrote:

Why would Yu Suzuki change to the old logo when he designed the new one himself? It's like he admitting to himself of having shitty handwriting and poor taste. Besides if he is just going to do what the fans want instead of what he wants, wouldn't that make Shenmue 3 basically a fan made game with Yu Suzuki's name just slapped on the cover?


He should admit it, actually.

What's the role of the backers then?, just to put the money and wait? Just a reminder, the headline of Shenmue 3's website is:

Shenmue 3
will be for the fans,
by the fans
- yu suzuki


Besides, every single tier from KS campaign included, as a reward: "Be able to participate in surveys and vote in polls for the ideas you want to see in the game.". As far as I remember, the only survey we have taken part is that one for deciding to keep or not the exclusive rewards for Kickstarter backers. Nothing else. That's definitely not keeping their promises, and unilaterally changing the classic logo to that shitty one that 9 out of 10 people dislike means that they give a shit about the fans.


No. There was at least one other backer survey I remember very clearly. They asked stuff like which mini games we liked best, which character we like best and so on.

Also, they added Portuguese subtitles to the game because they had a lot more backers than expected from Portugal and Brazil. They also translated the website into Chinese and added Alipay as a payment option for Chinese fans. Furthermore they once considered adding Chinese subtitles but ultimately decided against that idea, probably because there weren't enough slacker backers from China.

Also, due to popular demand, they will include some kind of forklift mini game in S3 which I personally would have preferred them not to do because I fucking hate the forklift race in S1. I hope they at least make it optional this time but that's not the point. The point is they have already catered to fans in a number of ways.

Concerning the logo, I'm 100% with you.

It looks like a person who doesn't write in latin letters in their daily life having a shot at Western calligraphy. Which is what it is. Immagine taking a random Dojo user and making him write Shenmue (Sha Mu) in Chinese characters. Chances are that some pretty shitty Chinese calligraphy would come out of this. It would probably look like a Chinese person writing with their left hand.

Now you take a fifty-something year-old Asian guy who doesn't really write English and make him do some European calligraphy. Guess what happens? Yup, you get a bunch of pretty clumsy-looking letters thrown on paper.

I've contacted YS Net through Kickstarter way back in August and asked them to please go back to the original logo. Here's what they replied:

Thank you very much for your kind words.

We hope that the decision to change the logo, and Mr. Suzuki's extra effort to personally create a new one, speaks not only to the necessity of the change, but also the attention being paid towards the myriad details of game making in the international sphere.

All our best,
Joel & the Shenmue III Team


Pretty stupid answer, I know. No idea what in the world made Yu change the logo but I respect his decision. I'm very much against democracy when it comes to creating art.In video games or film there's ultimatley one director who has stand for his or her artistic decisions. Paying too much attention to outsiders will ultimately water down any artistic vision.

I don't think being a KS backer gives anyone the right to have a say in artistic details about the project. It gives backers the right to be informed about the project's status regularly and to have their rewards delivered in a way that resembles the reward description as closely as possible. Not more than that.

Also, YS Net has already catered to fans in many ways, as I've stated above.
User avatar
Hyo Razuki
"After Burner...Great!"
"After Burner...Great!"
 
Joined: June 2015

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Rikitatsu » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:16 am

Hyo Razuki wrote:
gillian_seed wrote:
sand4fish wrote:

Why would Yu Suzuki change to the old logo when he designed the new one himself? It's like he admitting to himself of having shitty handwriting and poor taste. Besides if he is just going to do what the fans want instead of what he wants, wouldn't that make Shenmue 3 basically a fan made game with Yu Suzuki's name just slapped on the cover?


He should admit it, actually.

What's the role of the backers then?, just to put the money and wait? Just a reminder, the headline of Shenmue 3's website is:

Shenmue 3
will be for the fans,
by the fans
- yu suzuki


Besides, every single tier from KS campaign included, as a reward: "Be able to participate in surveys and vote in polls for the ideas you want to see in the game.". As far as I remember, the only survey we have taken part is that one for deciding to keep or not the exclusive rewards for Kickstarter backers. Nothing else. That's definitely not keeping their promises, and unilaterally changing the classic logo to that shitty one that 9 out of 10 people dislike means that they give a shit about the fans.


No. There was at least one other backer survey I remember very clearly. They asked stuff like which mini games we liked best, which character we like best and so on.

Also, they added Portuguese subtitles to the game because they had a lot more backers than expected from Portugal and Brazil. They also translated the website into Chinese and added Alipay as a payment option for Chinese fans. Furthermore they once considered adding Chinese subtitles but ultimately decided against that idea, probably because there weren't enough slacker backers from China.

Also, due to popular demand, they will include some kind of forklift mini game in S3 which I personally would have preferred them not to do because I fucking hate the forklift race in S1. I hope they at least make it optional this time but that's not the point. The point is they have already catered to fans in a number of ways.

Concerning the logo, I'm 100% with you.

It looks like a person who doesn't write in latin letters in their daily life having a shot at Western calligraphy. Which is what it is. Immagine taking a random Dojo user and making him write Shenmue (Sha Mu) in Chinese characters. Chances are that some pretty shitty Chinese calligraphy would come out of this. It would probably look like a Chinese person writing with their left hand.

Now you take a fifty-something year-old Asian guy who doesn't really write English and make him do some European calligraphy. Guess what happens? Yup, you get a bunch of pretty clumsy-looking letters thrown on paper.

I've contacted YS Net through Kickstarter way back in August and asked them to please go back to the original logo. Here's what they replied:

Thank you very much for your kind words.

We hope that the decision to change the logo, and Mr. Suzuki's extra effort to personally create a new one, speaks not only to the necessity of the change, but also the attention being paid towards the myriad details of game making in the international sphere.

All our best,
Joel & the Shenmue III Team


Pretty stupid answer, I know. No idea what in the world made Yu change the logo but I respect his decision. I'm very much against democracy when it comes to creating art.In video games or film there's ultimatley one director who has stand for his or her artistic decisions. Paying to much attention to outsiders will ultimately water down any artistic vision.

I don't think being a KS backer gives anyone the right to have a say in artistic details about the project. It gives backers the right to be informed about the project's status regularly and to have their rewards delivered in a way that resembles the reward description as closely as possible. Not more than that.

Also, YS Net has already catered to fans in many ways, as I've stated above.


My issue with the logo is that it evokes the feeling of "cheapness", probably because it remind me of those F2P Chinese MMOs you see every now and then in web ads. It's like the standard font people use when they want to give something a chinese flair... It just doesn't set well with me for that very reason.

I dare say that even the Papyrus logo felt better to me
User avatar
Rikitatsu
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: June 2008

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:23 am

The new logo is simply not acceptable. There are two reasons why the original logo should come back. One, it looks amazing and beautiful (much better than the current one. You can't really get a better logo than the original!) and two, it gives a huge sense of nostalgia and maintains the connection to the previous installments. Simply put, Shenmue I and II had it so Shenmue III should as well and because of the "Shenmue" feeling.
User avatar
Shenmue_Legend
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: August 2017

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby gillian_seed » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:58 am

Hyo Razuki wrote:
gillian_seed wrote:
sand4fish wrote:

Why would Yu Suzuki change to the old logo when he designed the new one himself? It's like he admitting to himself of having shitty handwriting and poor taste. Besides if he is just going to do what the fans want instead of what he wants, wouldn't that make Shenmue 3 basically a fan made game with Yu Suzuki's name just slapped on the cover?


He should admit it, actually.

What's the role of the backers then?, just to put the money and wait? Just a reminder, the headline of Shenmue 3's website is:

Shenmue 3
will be for the fans,
by the fans
- yu suzuki


Besides, every single tier from KS campaign included, as a reward: "Be able to participate in surveys and vote in polls for the ideas you want to see in the game.". As far as I remember, the only survey we have taken part is that one for deciding to keep or not the exclusive rewards for Kickstarter backers. Nothing else. That's definitely not keeping their promises, and unilaterally changing the classic logo to that shitty one that 9 out of 10 people dislike means that they give a shit about the fans.


No. There was at least one other backer survey I remember very clearly. They asked stuff like which mini games we liked best, which character we like best and so on.

Also, they added Portuguese subtitles to the game because they had a lot more backers than expected from Portugal and Brazil. They also translated the website into Chinese and added Alipay as a payment option for Chinese fans. Furthermore they once considered adding Chinese subtitles but ultimately decided against that idea, probably because there weren't enough slacker backers from China.

Also, due to popular demand, they will include some kind of forklift mini game in S3 which I personally would have preferred them not to do because I fucking hate the forklift race in S1. I hope they at least make it optional this time but that's not the point. The point is they have already catered to fans in a number of ways.

Concerning the logo, I'm 100% with you.

It looks like a person who doesn't write in latin letters in their daily life having a shot at Western calligraphy. Which is what it is. Immagine taking a random Dojo user and making him write Shenmue (Sha Mu) in Chinese characters. Chances are that some pretty shitty Chinese calligraphy would come out of this. It would probably look like a Chinese person writing with their left hand.

Now you take a fifty-something year-old Asian guy who doesn't really write English and make him do some European calligraphy. Guess what happens? Yup, you get a bunch of pretty clumsy-looking letters thrown on paper.

I've contacted YS Net through Kickstarter way back in August and asked them to please go back to the original logo. Here's what they replied:

Thank you very much for your kind words.

We hope that the decision to change the logo, and Mr. Suzuki's extra effort to personally create a new one, speaks not only to the necessity of the change, but also the attention being paid towards the myriad details of game making in the international sphere.

All our best,
Joel & the Shenmue III Team


Pretty stupid answer, I know. No idea what in the world made Yu change the logo but I respect his decision. I'm very much against democracy when it comes to creating art.In video games or film there's ultimatley one director who has stand for his or her artistic decisions. Paying too much attention to outsiders will ultimately water down any artistic vision.

I don't think being a KS backer gives anyone the right to have a say in artistic details about the project. It gives backers the right to be informed about the project's status regularly and to have their rewards delivered in a way that resembles the reward description as closely as possible. Not more than that.

Also, YS Net has already catered to fans in many ways, as I've stated above.


Gosh... That answer is really stupid. I wonder why there is no one at YSnet, AJ, Shibuya or Deep Silver advising Yu Suzuki on graphic design matters. That logo is just unnaceptable. I can live without the original logo, but at least I want a professional one. Same goes for in-game 3D models. I have seen better looking fan creations and I wonder why :?:

PS: Papyrus logo also looked better to me >_<
gillian_seed
Funny Bear Burger Clerk
Funny Bear Burger Clerk
 
Joined: April 2016
Location: Spain
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Yakuza Kiwami

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Valascaziel » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:20 pm

I have to say it will not appeal to the mass audience, barring some miracle push by Sony that results in more retail sales beyond those who pledged.

Critically, I think it in the high 60s-mid 70s, with nostalgia helping out with scores in some way.

It is hard to say if it will deliver. I very much have to say no if they are planning a 2018 release. Assuming a December release, counting manufacturing or "going gold", they have at best 10 months of development time left and we haven't seen any final models, voices, facial animation, gameplay..etc

I feel this is a 2019 game if it even remotely plans to deliver.
Valascaziel
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: June 2015

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:18 pm

The general assumption is that the main stream audience will hate it but the fans will enjoy it.

I think there is a possibility that the exact opposite happens. Yu Suzuki is in some aspects moving away traditional elements like the VF system in exchange of modern concepts.
User avatar
killthesagabeforeitkillsu
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: July 2008

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby MiTT3NZ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:38 pm

^I kinda agree. I reckon that the community will be split, but I can't see it being enjoyed by the "mainstream" audience. If anything the Steam users that tend to enjoy moderate to hugely successful indie games will be the crowd that'll probably enjoy it the most. That's what I think, at least.

MiTT3NZ has received a thanks from: Technophilz
User avatar
MiTT3NZ
Class A Cunt
Shenmue III
 
Joined: January 2005
Location: Manchester, innit!
XBL: Mittens2317
Steam: Mittens2317
Favorite title: Shenmue
Currently playing: Football Manager 2012

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:50 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote: ^I kinda agree. I reckon that the community will be split, but I can't see it being enjoyed by the "mainstream" audience. If anything the Steam users that tend to enjoy moderate to hugely successful indie games will be the crowd that'll probably enjoy it the most. That's what I think, at least.


The mainstream audience doesn't like anything that isn't Call Of Duty or Grand Theft Auto. That's why the best games are only appreciated by the true gamers i.e. people without a short attention span and the need for 24/7 action pick up and play games!
User avatar
Shenmue_Legend
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: August 2017

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shmoozip » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:08 pm

I am mainstream audience kinda. And i hate the game because of the announcement of puzzlefighting. I am currently considering a paypal refund because of change of direction.
User avatar
shmoozip
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: December 2017

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:14 pm

shmoozip wrote: I am mainstream audience kinda. And i hate the game because of the announcement of puzzlefighting. I am currently considering a paypal refund because of change of direction.


You really wanna get banned don't you?!
User avatar
Shenmue_Legend
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: August 2017

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shmoozip » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:21 pm

Shenmue_Legend wrote:
shmoozip wrote: I am mainstream audience kinda. And i hate the game because of the announcement of puzzlefighting. I am currently considering a paypal refund because of change of direction.


You really wanna get banned don't you?!


Why would i be banned? I have been nothing but polite. Yeah i made a joke topic 1 time. Learned the hard way and wont repeat that. Will i get banned cause i am not happy with the latest update? That would be so wrong. Also that would clearly prove that this board is hyveminded(i hope not)

I just didnt wait for a shenmue as explained on the last update. I wanna fight in that game like in previous entries. If i want a game like this ill just play the walking dead.

I am mainstream. I do love diffzrent games. I dont like cod. But the games i do have are bf4 and some fighters. Currently enjoyibg sunset overdrive. You can not simply drastically change the game outside the expectation.

This will harm shenmue. I am sure of that
User avatar
shmoozip
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: December 2017

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:30 pm

shmoozip wrote:
Shenmue_Legend wrote:
shmoozip wrote: I am mainstream audience kinda. And i hate the game because of the announcement of puzzlefighting. I am currently considering a paypal refund because of change of direction.


You really wanna get banned don't you?!


Why would i be banned? I have been nothing but polite. Yeah i made a joke topic 1 time. Learned the hard way and wont repeat that. Will i get banned cause i am not happy with the latest update? That would be so wrong. Also that would clearly prove that this board is hyveminded(i hope not)

I just didnt wait for a shenmue as explained on the last update. I wanna fight in that game like in previous entries. If i want a game like this ill just play the walking dead.

I am mainstream. I do love diffzrent games. I dont like cod. But the games i do have are bf4 and some fighters. Currently enjoyibg sunset overdrive. You can not simply drastically change the game outside the expectation.

This will harm shenmue. I am sure of that


I mean you haven't even seen the gameplay or the combat system in action and yet you already want your money back? That doesn't make any sense.

In order to make Shenmue III truly unique and potentially set a new benchmark for gaming, then I think it needs to become an experience that we've never experienced before. Something that's different from the first two installments and a new breath of fresh air. I'm sure we would all like to be "wowed" again and to accomplish this, drastically changing the game and making it feel different is a good idea.
User avatar
Shenmue_Legend
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: August 2017

Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shmoozip » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:54 pm

I kindly want to explain myself.
Yu suzuki wants to make a puzzle game. That is not the shenmue i know.
I see a change in direction, and yes you are right i have not seen the game yet. But i have only veen following this for a few weeks and i also went to the kickstarter board to read what people think. Also had the chance to look at all the updates there. And from what i see is clearly that they havent really figured out yet what they are doing. Yu suzuki has a problem with the engine as well.

Look ill take that back. I wont refund 30 dollars is not a huge investment to me. But it really just makes me wonder what does yu suzuki want. I allready have a stress factor of capcom making games too easy. In mvci its a button mash game. Sfv is basically lag guess fighter v made for the so called broader audience. Pro's stopped playing the game because of input lag of 6.5 frames per second. Also the onesided rollback of sfv made it a heaven for lagswitchers. And im just a sore loser maybe for hating that yu suzuki is making this yet another easy game. Shenmue 1 and 2 were the reason i jumped in last few weeks. I didng buy this game to b a puzzle tactical qte only game.

That is not what shenmue was about.

Excuse me shenmue legend i have good intentions. I hace a wacko avatar. But thats for the fun of it. But i really like shenmue i teuly do. But i wont go blindly into this.

Thx foe your reply
User avatar
shmoozip
Banned
Banned
 
Joined: December 2017

PreviousNext

Return to Shenmue III

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000-
ShenmueDojo.net