Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Shenmue_Legend » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:13 pm

shmoozip wrote: I kindly want to explain myself.
Yu suzuki wants to make a puzzle game. That is not the shenmue i know.
I see a change in direction, and yes you are right i have not seen the game yet. But i have only veen following this for a few weeks and i also went to the kickstarter board to read what people think. Also had the chance to look at all the updates there. And from what i see is clearly that they havent really figured out yet what they are doing. Yu suzuki has a problem with the engine as well.

Look ill take that back. I wont refund 30 dollars is not a huge investment to me. But it really just makes me wonder what does yu suzuki want. I allready have a stress factor of capcom making games too easy. In mvci its a button mash game. Sfv is basically lag guess fighter v made for the so called broader audience. Pro's stopped playing the game because of input lag of 6.5 frames per second. Also the onesided rollback of sfv made it a heaven for lagswitchers. And im just a sore loser maybe for hating that yu suzuki is making this yet another easy game. Shenmue 1 and 2 were the reason i jumped in last few weeks. I didng buy this game to b a puzzle tactical qte only game.

That is not what shenmue was about.

Excuse me shenmue legend i have good intentions. I hace a wacko avatar. But thats for the fun of it. But i really like shenmue i teuly do. But i wont go blindly into this.

Thx foe your reply


You're right. Too many games nowadays dumb down the gameplay just to make it more accessible and to please the casual gamers. It always sucks when you have games like Sleeping Dogs, the Batman Arkham series and stuff because they really cater to pick up and play gamers that just want to be instantly great at the game without putting in any effort.

Maybe Yu Suzuki just has a hard time explaining the new system so he may not be accurately describing it or something. I'll reserve all judgement until I see the combat myself. For all we know, it could end up being a deep and technical system that blows everyone away. Just wait and see!
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby MiTT3NZ » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:01 pm

Not seen Split yet, but I imagine it's a lot like this.

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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Hazuki00 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:35 pm

I think most people have gotten what Suzuki said wrong, it doesn't mean that shenmue 3 will be a puzzle game in battles,. It will have free battles but the mechanics will be different, maybe more tactical, maybe thinking about good combinations (this could be the puzzle part) of punches and kicks and less timing. We'll see when they release some gameplay but WILL HAVE free battles for sure!
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Riku Rose » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:07 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote: Not seen Split yet, but I imagine it's a lot like this.


Nah, it’s actually somewhat entertaining.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Rikitatsu » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:10 pm

Hazuki00 wrote: I think most people have gotten what Suzuki said wrong, it doesn't mean that shenmue 3 will be a puzzle game in battles,. It will have free battles but the mechanics will be different, maybe more tactical, maybe thinking about good combinations (this could be the puzzle part) of punches and kicks and less timing. We'll see when they release some gameplay but WILL HAVE free battles for sure!

I'm having trouble picturing what Suzuki is going after with the new combat.
Suppose it's free form and not scripted/on rails, then how exactly is it going to be more tactical/puzzle-like compared to VF's combat? I've heard stuff like using the environments to your advantage, but that sounds very situational... He also mentioned something about the importance of positioning, but that kinda was important in S 1 & 2, too.

Therefore I'm not sure what it could provide that VF's system lacked, aside from streamlining/simplifying.

... Of course that is assuming it's Free Form, and not something like QTE/scripted scenes. They did say they wanted to merge the QTEs with the Battles, so fights could be 'scenes' where you have limited control over your character.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby swimingdeer » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:15 pm

I was thinking again about the battle system.
And, in my thought was that it could be something like VF in some way :
you could input specific button presses to get the desired move.
And, when the moves the button presses should do, would fail to connect,
then, the game would interpret, with some AI, a strategy.


I think its a realistic concept to implement a battle system
where each input is used as an additional information on what Ryo /Ren /Shenhua (why not ?)
should be trying to do.

This way, experts at fighting games would still get similar result,
while less experimented players could still control the flow of the battle.


Maybe I'm way off about that, but, I think it's a more realistic expectation than a step by step puzzle.
(And, from the relevant article on the phantomriverstone blog,
it's originally said something more along the line of "thoughtful" than "puzzle")
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shmoozip » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:24 am

swimingdeer wrote: I was thinking again about the battle system.
And, in my thought was that it could be something like VF in some way :
you could input specific button presses to get the desired move.
And, when the moves the button presses should do, would fail to connect,
then, the game would interpret, with some AI, a strategy.


I think its a realistic concept to implement a battle system
where each input is used as an additional information on what Ryo /Ren /Shenhua (why not ?)
should be trying to do.

This way, experts at fighting games would still get similar result,
while less experimented players could still control the flow of the battle.


Maybe I'm way off about that, but, I think it's a more realistic expectation than a step by step puzzle.
(And, from the relevant article on the phantomriverstone blog,
it's originally said something more along the line of "thoughtful" than "puzzle")



thoughtfull or thinking is chess is puzzle.
ask all your japanese friends on psn or ea origin or uplay or steam or any client your involved and show them the interview update and they will say the sybtitles are correct. and that puzzle is the proper translated translation. however you can give it a twist like thoughtfull or thinking.

he ment puzzle.
get over it. all we can hope is that it is just a part he wants to add. but i hold my heart. if it is indeed a puzzle tactical qte kind of game? that is not shenmue. no it is not.

also what i see in many posts here is that we make idea's and assumptions. (i do that as well). but if you take yu suzuki literally for his words.

1. its puzzle focused
2. the facial expressions and even the faces are being redon by scratch by lakshya
3. unreal engine made his life really hard
4. he went trough a lot of shifts some people went away. and other devs came later
5. he basically started rescripting after the deep silver agreement.
6. it is not only for the fans by the fans anymore(which is allright to me)

and these are only based on the interviews. without giving addons such as idea's and assumptions.
this is what it is for now.

somebody made a great example of last guardian on this post.
however last guardian even with its flaws looks gorgeouss and even tho critisized the game has proven to have really long legs. the game is a huge succes and still sells on the shelves. the fun part of games like sotc and ico is that their pretty much empty its you and the environment most of the time. against a giant or a giant as friend.
on topic

shenmue 3 really should be just shenmue. shenmue 1 and 2 are the foundations. and yu suzuki should improve from there. and making it another game will bring some deep anger and dissapointments in many.
this will divide us into

1. purists who want it to be like shenmue 1 and 2
2. Fight gamers like street of rage and code of princess the fight community will be alienated
3. fanboys(which is allright) that will take it for what it is and be happy
4. fanboys defending the game at all cost even in its errors(which is not allright)
5. just some neutral people who play games for the fun of it and will ignore the shenmuedojo forums sega forums and kickstarter and will just have fun like they always do(i wish i was like that)
and more

but changing the game will bring a bad taste. and you know how vocal internet is. and we know there are haters just to hate. that just decided to hate the game for no reason.

1.old school snes fanboys still hating on any sega game to this day.
2. haters for no reason
3. non git gud scrubber who only give good points to games they can beat(the broader audience)

really the only way for shenmue to succeed is to improve from shenmue 1 and 2 and make it better.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Hyo Razuki » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:11 am

That word "puzzle-game" is a translation goof, as Switch pointed out on his blog:

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/12/commentary-on-kickstarter-update-78.html#more

"Thinking-style game" would be a more accurate translation. Whatever in the world Yu means by "thinking-style game"...

It's noteable how little more we know about the game now, compared to two-and-a-half years ago, when it was revealed. Yu telling us that the Character Perspective System will only cover one distinct section of the game and the rest will be Ryo only as always might be the only substantial piece of information we got about the game's content since July of 2015.

I mean yes, we've seen that granny character and Mr Muscles, whoever the fuck he is, but we don't really know a lot about the game yet.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shmoozip » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:57 am

Hyo Razuki wrote: That word "puzzle-game" is a translation goof, as Switch pointed out on his blog:

http://www.phantomriverstone.com/2017/12/commentary-on-kickstarter-update-78.html#more

"Thinking-style game" would be a more accurate translation. Whatever in the world Yu means by "thinking-style game"...

It's noteable how little more we know about the game now, compared to two-and-a-half years ago, when it was revealed. Yu telling us that the Character Perspective System will only cover one distinct section of the game and the rest will be Ryo only as always might be the only substantial piece of information we got about the game's content since July of 2015.

I mean yes, we've seen that granny character and Mr Muscles, whoever the fuck he is, but we don't really know a lot about the game yet.


thinking style thoughtfull is ? it is the literal translation. but in it's context it really is a good translation meaning puzzle.
they can bend it into whatever they want it to. but the translation is nothing but a word play
not one or none
thinking style or puzzle

where is the immersion and the reflect on attack to block? where is the dash or parry where is the action and mindgame to deceptive moving. where is the grab and takedown ryo had? where is the tai chi takedown or takkle?

assumptions and idea's dont do it.
the fact is the only thing they gave to us. and since everything was subjected to change. and ever since the rescripting and outsourcing we can't really say whats gonna happen. but we do have yu suzuki's word

and his word doesnt sound like a goot thing to me.

by the way i do agree with you on that part is that we have nothing. cause the changes are drastic now. he went from home to outsourcing. obviously they cant get it done alone. which brings me to the next worrysome question.
so yes the expectations are not low nor high. there is nothing to expect with zero info.
the next question is : when will the game be released? cause im 100 procent that it wont be 2018.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby MiTT3NZ » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:16 pm

Basically it's gonna utilise a system similar to Fight Night and For Honour where it's not about using a move but using the correct move in that context.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby killthesagabeforeitkillsu » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:53 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote: Basically it's gonna utilise a system similar to Fight Night and For Honour where it's not about using a move but using the correct move in that context.


Fight Night is one on one and I hope it's not like For Honor. Yu Suzuki seems to be building a fighting system specifically for fighting groups of people.

I think it's safe to say none of us have any idea how it will be but we can assume it will move away from the VF formula.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby Sonoshee » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:06 pm

So much worrying over something we haven't even seen in action yet.

Yu has pioneered so much in his career. The man deserves some faith.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shmoozip » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:47 pm

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote: Basically it's gonna utilise a system similar to Fight Night and For Honour where it's not about using a move but using the correct move in that context.


Fight Night is one on one and I hope it's not like For Honor. Yu Suzuki seems to be building a fighting system specifically for fighting groups of people.

I think it's safe to say none of us have any idea how it will be but we can assume it will move away from the VF formula.


well to be honest. a mix of for honor and fight night really exists with dark souls flavour

phpBB [video]


it is called absolver. and guess what u can fight multiple enemies and even tho absolver had a shitty netcode. the gameplay was perfect. the reason the game failed cause the online was broken. this is maybe the right direction for shenmue 3. i ask you please watch that video to get some inspiration of what i mean.

you can parry dash pull counter takedown or even clinch. the only thing you dont have is a ground game. which ofcourse was never there in shenmue. so it should be allright. tell me what you think of it please

this is single player story mode. kinda solitude game like dark souls where the lore is thin and open to your own imagination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5c8KuEgEgc
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby shredingskin » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:42 pm

I expect a game to be bigger than SI, but a little less detailed.
Also bigger than SII, but in "metres", not so much in density.
I expect somewhat clunky animations and acceptable voice acting compared to the old ones.
I expect the pace of the game to be slower than SII, more intimate.

About the game as a game, I think it'll probably be around 7.9 or so.
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Re: Realistic expectations for Shenmue 3, will it deliver?

Postby MiTT3NZ » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:30 pm

killthesagabeforeitkillsu wrote: Fight Night is one on one and I hope it's not like For Honor. Yu Suzuki seems to be building a fighting system specifically for fighting groups of people.


You misunderstand. I mean it's not just a case of "A does X damage, B blocks A", the player will have to figure out which move is best at any given time and pick their shots rather than "mash X, double blow, mash Y, pit blow, mash Y" rinse and repeat.

shmoozip wrote:it is called absolver. and guess what u can fight multiple enemies and even tho absolver had a shitty netcode. the gameplay was perfect.

you can parry dash pull counter takedown or even clinch. the only thing you dont have is a ground game. which ofcourse was never there in shenmue. so it should be allright. tell me what you think of it please


Ah, I forgot about this. Yeah, this is the kinda thing I meant. It's a shame that it's failed, I wouldn't have minded giving it a go at some point.
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