Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2 look

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Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2 look

Postby saptape » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:40 pm

Face it, it's a fact that Ryo and Shenhua won't look exactly like what they did before, without literally copying it into the current engine it is not possible to replicate the models in it's entirety meaning there'll be inaccuracies in the final version.

So far as of this post I have to say they look pretty damn good and most of here can argue we would accept Ryo but Shenhua's clothing is out of touch, what made Yu Suzuki think that it had to be that way since it's obviously much a brighter yellow colour? Did she change her clothes? well it seems like inaccuracy to me but we have to welcome this change.

The fact that it's not final yet and we have yet to see what both Ryo and Shenhua look like in the end may make me seem like I'm talking out of my backside here but it will be different is all I'm saying. Most people are going to he disappointed with Ryo's face and his jacket colour so I just assure you know it won't be very much the in-game version of 1&2 we know and love. Personally to me I am okay because it's not like they aren't recognizable, it is important to at least retain the same sense of character and personality in the end anyway and Ryo being that serious guy he is, that will instantly make up for the different look he'll have. Shenhua needs slight tweaks especially her clothes but in the end I am thankful for what's been designed and mabye Ys Net will prove me wrong.

Mabye they can make the models almost exactly like 1&2 and in an updated form, thats the promise after all! but with Unreal Engine 4 I remain skeptical. I can't help but see all the upcoming awful bashing and comparisons of the final Shenmue 3 models to 1&2 by people and then claiming "1&2's models looked way better" what do you think?

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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Jibby » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:50 pm

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I think this is a good assertion. Shenmue III is going to look different to the previous games simply because it is a current gen game. Once people start realising and accepting that, I think they'll start being less taken aback every time a new character model screenshot is posted.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Niowiad » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:05 pm

Well exactly... this happens to literally every videogame series across multiple generations.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Spaghetti » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:17 pm

I think YSnet have been doing a decent enough job of somehow evoking the "Dreamcast look" each time the game surfaces in new images, especially recently.

Ultimately YSnet have to bridge a 20 year technology gap, it was never going to be 1:1 with the old games in any respect.

Take the small debates over the colour of Ryo's jacket for example:

In the old games the highlights and crevices were painted onto the texture. Now, the lightness and darkness of the jacket are partly determined by the lighting conditions because of physically based rendering. They're both a brown leather jacket, made with the graphics techniques available during their respective timeframes. The comparisons are basically pointless.

With this always in mind, I'm not going to be nitpicky about where they're taking the graphics. Even stuff that's related to art direction decisions like Shenhua's new outfit I'm not entirely bothered about, although I still have a feeling her original outfit will be in the game; or was at least attempted (could have been dropped due to technical reasons regarding her sleeves, idk).

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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby MiTT3NZ » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:47 pm

That's not entirely true. Whilst obviously they will look different, the original models were based on scans of actual sculptures. There's also an argument to be made that the models seen in the Shenmue Online CG trailer were a hell of a lot better (or the ones of Ryo and Lan Di, at least).

Overall I reckon it's less to do with 1:1 accuracy and more of the overwhelming disappointment in the lack of quality. I've said it a number of times now, but they genuinely do look like Barbie n Ken dolls as it stands.

But yes, they can at least retain the original look by returning to those sculptures/scans if they were available. On top of that one only has to look at the phenomenal work by a handful of talented fans to understand that it's doable without em, all you need are some good reference images and someone who's half-decent at modelling.

I dare say that within the time it's taken to create the various iterations we've already seen, a more capable 3D artist would've completed them and then some.

But you're not talking out your arse, they will be different from the original games. Hopefully they'll be different from what we've already seen too...
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Jibby » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:06 pm

MiTT3NZ wrote: There's also an argument to be made that the models seen in the Shenmue Online CG trailer were a hell of a lot better (or the ones of Ryo and Lan Di, at least).

People say this a lot, but personally I think the Shenmue Online models are fucking awful.

For example:
Image

If Ryo looked like this in Shenmue III, I think we'd be taking a big step back from what we've seen in the current screenshots.

The only part of that trailer Ryo looks good in is the side on close-up
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Reprise » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:12 pm

Jibby wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote: There's also an argument to be made that the models seen in the Shenmue Online CG trailer were a hell of a lot better (or the ones of Ryo and Lan Di, at least).

People say this a lot, but personally I think the Shenmue Online models are fucking awful.

For example:
Image

If Ryo looked like this in Shenmue III, I think we'd be taking a big step back from what we've seen in the current screenshots.

The only part of that trailer Ryo looks good in is the side on close-up


Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. The Shenmue Online models are terrible.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby MiTT3NZ » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:33 pm

I don't agree, but the other characters (Ren and Wong in particular) are quite laughable.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Yokosuka » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:10 am

saptape wrote: what made Yu Suzuki think that it had to be that way since it's obviously much a brighter yellow colour?


Shenhua is expected to change her clothes everyday - at least on a regular basis - so maybe... The Shenmue III screenshots may take place the day after they discovered the cave secret entrance. If you give the Saturn CGI artworks a look, you'll check her wardrobe.

Regarding Ryo, I genuinely think the Online model is great if not the best:

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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Kiske » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:21 am

I'm less worried about the main characters models being different in Shenmue 3 compared to the original games on Dreamcast than I am concerned about the differences between the Shenmue 3 models and the potential ones of Shenmue HD.

If Shenmue HD ever comes out and comes out before Shenmue 3, it will be more disturbing in my opinion, to have big differences between the respective main characters models like Ryo, Ren, Shenhua or Lan Di.

On that matter I really hope, as optimistic as it may sound, that there is some synergy between SEGA and YsNet.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Jibby » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:54 am

Yokosuka wrote:Image

This is the one bit of the video people always refer to and it's the only part of the trailer where Ryo actually looks acceptable. The rest of the time, his model looks plasticy and misshapen.

MiTT3NZ wrote: I don't agree, but the other characters (Ren and Wong in particular) are quite laughable.

Haha yeah, Wong and Ren are really bad. Reminds me a bit of this lol:
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Sebastian1998 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:58 am

Jibby wrote:
MiTT3NZ wrote: There's also an argument to be made that the models seen in the Shenmue Online CG trailer were a hell of a lot better (or the ones of Ryo and Lan Di, at least).

People say this a lot, but personally I think the Shenmue Online models are fucking awful.

For example:
Image

If Ryo looked like this in Shenmue III, I think we'd be taking a big step back from what we've seen in the current screenshots.

The only part of that trailer Ryo looks good in is the side on close-up


Come on man, have you gone nuts? The Shenmue Online Ryo is literally PERFECT. To say that it would be a huge step back from the current Shenmue III model is ridiculous when in fact, it would be the exact opposite.

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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Kiske » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:07 am

Please, stay calm...

There have been many versions of Ryo even since before the original Shenmue was released on Dreamcast.

As a matter of fact, no model will ever 100% satisfy everyone.

The best model of Ryo so far, is the one used in the original games. The next best Ryo model will be the one used in Shenmue 3. There are more important things to achieve for the good of the franchise future... in my opinion.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby Jibby » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:13 am

Kiske wrote:
The best model of Ryo so far, is the one used in the original games. The next best Ryo model will be the one used in Shenmue 3.

Yeah, I think that sums it up nicely.
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Re: Ryo and Shenhua can't possibly retain their Shenmue 1/2

Postby TigerDragon » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:53 am

*Banned for ban evasion*

You are both clearly blinded by nostalgia. As if a model made 15 years ago is going to be better than a fully fledged CGI one. I do not get it. I mean it is crystal clear that in terms of quality, the Shenmue Online Ryo is the best. If not, could you please explain why the original is better and also why the SO Ryo looks "awful"? Stop banning me by the way. I know I use a proxy, but my privacy should be respected.
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