Shenmue Dojo

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion... As things stand.

But what's important to remember is it's all still in progress, and if they can finally crack Shenhua after all of these years of complaining, then there's no reason why the Ryo model won't be given the same treatment over the course of the coming months.

Peter wrote: Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion... As things stand.

But what's important to remember is it's all still in progress, and if they can finally crack Shenhua after all of these years of complaining, then there's no reason why the Ryo model won't be given the same treatment over the course of the coming months.

Yep. Plus Yu has said he's finally happy with the way Shenhua looks, but to my knowledge he has not said that about Ryo yet. Don't panic, Shenhua shows that everything is moving in the right direction.

But we don't know for sure if the Shenhua featured in the last video is older that the one Cedric showed in his tweet account...

Hazuki00 wrote: But we don't know for sure if the Shenhua featured in the last video is older that the one Cedric showed in his tweet account...

That's true. But it's no secret that the public info released, especially recently, has been confusing. Plus, the initial point of view remains. We have time. Lots of time now it was rightfully delayed again. This point in the development will be where we see the biggest changes so far, where character models will show clear signs of tweaking and change. Environments will become more detailed and populated. It all revolves back to the fact that with being a Kickstarter, we have been shown every step of the way, rather than a behind closed doors 2 years of development. I'm sure the first half development footage of God of War would be hard to look at. Detroit Become Humans character models would be laughed at if we seen what they were 3 years ago.

That's why I've said from the very beginning and enjoy the journey, assessing the final product and basing my opinion on that. Do I have opinions? Sure I do. Do I have concerns? Sure I do. Do I have faith in Yu-san to deliver, and have all these concerns and opinions addressed? Sure I do. If people think I'm wrong then that's fine, but I base my faith on the legendary and innovative career the man has had, which is absolute fact. If people want to worry about hypotheticals such as he has lost his talent, or his team isn't experience etc, then they are welcome to do so, but I base my opinions on the facts of an experienced professional in the field, and not from a gamer keyboard warrior grasping at straws to drum up some much loved "drama", which seems to be what the vocal majority that lurks out want, with every new piece of information.

Oh and don't get me wrong, I am not telling people how to think. That's just my own personal opinion on all of this development process. I know that Shenmue 3 will be a fantastic game, and the game I've waited for, for all these years. People are free to think what they like though, I just don't have enough hairs to spare going grey with all the wording and stress that comes with every piece of info.

This is the first fair article I've seen regarding this subject:

http://www.siliconera.com/2018/05/20/sh ... t-trailer/

BalHan wrote: I wish they had gone with Kid Nocon's character model of Ryo rather than the one they're going with in the latest images shown.

That was basically just the passport model/All Stars Racing model though. I just... I don't see how that's better. Even when rendered in UE4 for the amazing Hazuki Dojo recreation.







It looks old geometrically, which it is, and largely suffers the same >:( face problems that this model got mocked for:

Spaghetti wrote:

BalHan wrote: I wish they had gone with Kid Nocon's character model of Ryo rather than the one they're going with in the latest images shown.

That was basically just the passport model/All Stars Racing model though. I just... I don't see how that's better. Even when rendered in UE4 for the amazing Hazuki Dojo recreation.







It looks old geometrically, which it is, and largely suffers the same >:( face problems that this model got mocked for:

The ue4 model for the hazuki dojo remake looks like Ryo. The latest images of Shenmue 3's Ryo just doesn't. I mean he hardly looks Japanese. If they weren't gonna use the hazuki dojo remake model, well that's fine, but why not use it as a starting point?

If I'm not mistaken, Nocon is working on Shenmue 3 and if that's true I wish he had pushed for his model to be used as a template but maybe had lacked the confidence to speak up perhaps.

As I mentioned before, they'll make improvements on the models so I might actually end up liking the final model of Ryo.

Apparently he's only working on backgrounds/environments.

Personally, I think his Ryo model is the weakest part of his concept trailers. It certainly looks plasticky/rough. I do think it looks 'closer' to the Dreamcast model, however.

The current Ryo looks a bit Malaysian or Filipino to me.

BalHan wrote:The ue4 model for the hazuki dojo remake looks like Ryo. The latest images of Shenmue 3's Ryo just doesn't. I mean he hardly looks Japanese. If they weren't gonna use the hazuki dojo remake model, well that's fine, but why not use it as a starting point?

I guess we can keep reposting this image.

i obviously don't like Shenmue, that's why I donated to the Kickstarter and joined this forum. Think you're so fucking important because you're fluent in Japanese but the truth is you only moved to Japan because your girlfriend ran off with a black man.

MJMW wrote: I don't think Ryo's look was mocked in a negative way, it was just a unique aspect of his personality which helped familiarise fans with the series.

KidMarine wrote: I don't really like Ryo's newest model and I think he was a little way to go before he's perfect (like Shenhua), but the idea that that the E3 or Gamescom models are superior is just absurd to me. Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that might be the wackiest one I've ever heard.

I just find it odd how people can say she looks more like the original but then turn around and say she reminds them of the SO model. Whatever. When people say the original, this is the one I think of:

which to me is nothing like the current one. I don't think the Gamescom model is anything like her, either. It all comes down to personal preference between the current models.

mjq jazz bar wrote:
The current Ryo looks a bit Malaysian or Filipino to me.

This one?

He seems to have a lighter complexion to me, which makes him look even less Asian imo.

This. Like I said, I think a lot of the issues are coming from the lighting. I'm pretty sure they're the same model.

The Ryo model is growing on me. I'm hoping the Shenhua that Yu is satisfied with isn't the one we see here, because while cute, I just don't think she looks like Shenhua at all. I'm also starting to think mjq jazz bar might be right about the lighting.

BalHan wrote:The ue4 model for the hazuki dojo remake looks like Ryo. The latest images of Shenmue 3's Ryo just doesn't. I mean he hardly looks Japanese. If they weren't gonna use the hazuki dojo remake model, well that's fine, but why not use it as a starting point?

If I'm not mistaken, Nocon is working on Shenmue 3 and if that's true I wish he had pushed for his model to be used as a template but maybe had lacked the confidence to speak up perhaps.

As I mentioned before, they'll make improvements on the models so I might actually end up liking the final model of Ryo.

The only reason it "looks like Ryo" in any sense is because it's basically the Passport model from 20 years ago with a few things cleaned up, and honestly even then it looks its age. It just wouldn't fly in a game due to be released in 2019, I think we can all probably agree on that.

If you think it should be used as a template, and let's say they did. They would obviously have to start making changes to bring it up to some semblance of modern quality. Not AAA obviously, but better than a slightly fixed up 20 year old model. I am certain had that happened, this same "not looking like Ryo" conversation would still be occurring in one way or another, because at some point it would just stop looking like the Passport model by bridging that 20 year technology gap. Perpetual square one.

The Gamescom '17 and Shenmue II Ryo model composite has been posted enough that, by now it should be getting obvious the "looking like Ryo" argument is fickle, and pretty much based on fallacy.

Constantly obsessing over this "looking like Ryo" stuff while posting models from two decades ago is only really giving Ys Net a target they can't reasonably hit, because it increasingly looks like there's only so far tolerance of revisions and improvements will go. It's stifling any revisions or genuine improvements to the character's design.

Genuinely, I think we just need to let the Dreamcast models go as some unshakeable vision of what the character has to look like.

As for the "Ryo hardly looks Japanese" stuff, people can make up their own mind based on this:



I don't know what everybody else sees, but to my eye that's a Japanese guy, or at least Japanese enough as a stylised character model. Going down the "what kind of Asian does he look like" rabbit hole is only going to lead to madness.

There's also something a bit funny about telling a Japanese development team their Japanese character looks the wrong kind of Asian, like they wouldn't pick up on that. They're better able to judge than most of us, that's for sure.

mjq jazz bar wrote:This. Like I said, I think a lot of the issues are coming from the lighting. I'm pretty sure they're the same model.

As the Gamescom model? Nah. You can see geometric changes in the mouth and eyes, maybe a bit in the nose but can't be sure. That's aside from detail changes like the eyebrows, skin, hair, we saw in the close up MAGIC shot. Cheeks and jaw might have been touched up too, but it depends which shot you're looking at.

The lighting in the Gamescom progress video is quite harsh though, which did that iteration no favours.

Genuinely, I think we just need to let the Dreamcast models go as some unshakeable vision of what the character has to look like.

Surely you’ll take this back at some point. Then what is the end they’re trying to achieve with the models if there isn’t a vision of what the character has to look like? Why were people unhappy with the models of Ryo and Shenhua they showed at E3 a few years ago? Because they didn’t look like Ryo and Shenhua. No other reason.

Do you want them to make further improvements on the current models? If so, then to what end? The goal surely has to be to create models that look like the Dreamcast models.

It’s like when you’ve been watching a show for years and one day a new actor plays a role that was played by someone else for years. No, no, no. We want the same actor! It’s no longer the same.

Constantly obsessing over this "looking like Ryo" stuff while posting models from two decades ago is only really giving Ys Net a target they can't reasonably hit

They can’t reasonably hit? In this day and age with UE4 at their disposal? I think we can safely assume they can create models that resembles models from previous games. I mean devs have done pretty well with other remakes.