Shenmue Dojo

Almost the same as... last year? Absolutely no way.

shredingskin wrote: To be honest it looks almost the same.

Are you joking?

I don't know what trailer are you talking about "last year", but I'm just talking about the gamescom one, half the trailer is the same.

The other half looks like compressed stuff from the monaco pics (with different lighting / tonemapping / video artifacts).

shredingskin wrote: I don't know what trailer are you talking about "last year", but I'm just talking about the gamescom one, half the trailer is the same.

The other half looks like compressed stuff from the monaco pics (with different lighting / tonemapping / video artifacts).

I was talking about the progress video too, and yes, I know bar a few shots it's the same video.

I thought you said the replaced Shenhua/Ryo shot was the same as it looked/animated in the Gamescom video, which it really, really doesn't.

Just noticed the other stuff in shenhua's collard, so it isn't the pics from monaco.

I just don't know, too tired to actually be pointing out stuff from 5 different pieces of media of varying qualities.

It's possible, with the agile method and all,
that there is several build being worked on at the same time.

Yes, my hypothesis is that there is several builds developed concurrently.
(with the build for the MAGIC images being more geared toward characters' faces and model rendering,
while the one used for the video in the THQ nordic presentation is more dedicated to the general core.)

This hypothesis could explain the slight differences in models and environments.

I don't really think that's the case.

Don't developers all work from the same build up to a point, compile their work, review, then start the process again with the next sprint? I don't know enough to say for sure but having teams working on different builds sounds like a fucking nightmare for versioning.

I don't understand certain aspects of this entire scenario, honestly.

We're critiquing "pre-Alpha" of the same footage, give or take, that we've seen the whole time. The only thing I can garner is pre-Alpha is very early footage, so they haven't made much progress or something is stopping them?

Yu said after MAGIC the game is in a "much more advanced state" than what we have been shown.

Why, then, haven't we been shown anything resembling a more recent build, even with the delay? Is it not allowed by Deep Silver in order to keep it at trade shows? Was it a fib by Yu regarding their true progress in order to hide there may be trouble afoot(i.e delay)?

The screen from January 2018 looks better than anything they've shown to me, save for Shenhua looking improved slightly. Ryo looked better there to me than in today's footage.

What's going on with the status of the project? We all expected a delay to 2019, but I'm wondering just how far into 2019 it's going to go seeing "pre-Alpha" of the same footage in May 2018.

You guys know I can be a bit more critical and I'm not trying to be a "Technophilz" but I feel a bit concerned when we're poring over the same snippets for the last several months. We know the Gamescom and MAGIC footage were months old, almost a year old now...so..this is it? Same thing with arguably small improvements?

The problem relies in that we don't really know in what state is the footage we are seeing.

When they showed the first "real" trailer some people that went to japan said it was the same (or similar trailer), and was like a year ago or so, then we get assured that the animations problems have been solved, then they show other photos, then they show the press trailer (that was shown 6 months ago) with a bath of "new photos", and now they show this trailer that has new parts, old parts, part look like "new" photos, part look like the old trailer, part looked revamped.

It's like trying to do a Zelda timeline but with the state of the game.

Also there's a lot of variance in animation quality, the fight with the old man seems smooth AF, shenhua pointing looks like they just dragged the bone, the QTE stuff they showed was a little better but really stiff, it's really hard to guess where the game is currently. The footage shown could be from 2 years ago or last week for all we know.

It's getting to the point of confusing now. But I guess if we think about it, so far it's been

Teaser at Gamescom
New models in Jan 2018
More new images and new Ryo model at Magic
Extended teaser at Magic Monaco 2018
The same teaser shown at gamescom but with another set of new Ryo and Shenhua models

It's like they are showing us the game bit by bit slowly. I agree with Spaghetti too. Those are really good facial animations. You could tell Ryo looks happy just by that small clip.

Yes, but they said that the gamescom teaser was already shown to backers at japan (or similar, I can't remember), that's part of the confusion.

And if we look at it, can we be actually sure that this trailer is actually newer than the photos ? For all we know they might tested the decorations on shenhua's clothes and removed it.

Valascaziel wrote: I don't understand certain aspects of this entire scenario, honestly.

We're critiquing "pre-Alpha" of the same footage, give or take, that we've seen the whole time. The only thing I can garner is pre-Alpha is very early footage, so they haven't made much progress or something is stopping them?

[..]

What's going on with the status of the project? We all expected a delay to 2019, but I'm wondering just how far into 2019 it's going to go seeing "pre-Alpha" of the same footage in May 2018.

They're in Alpha. The new shots/scene is marked with Alpha rather than Pre-Alpha for the old footage, bar the new close up of Ryo and Shenhua which I think it mislabelled.

Valascaziel wrote:Yu said after MAGIC the game is in a "much more advanced state" than what we have been shown.

Why, then, haven't we been shown anything resembling a more recent build, even with the delay? Is it not allowed by Deep Silver in order to keep it at trade shows? Was it a fib by Yu regarding their true progress in order to hide there may be trouble afoot(i.e delay)?

Largely answered your own question. This was a financial meeting and nothing else, more elaborate showings will be held until the appropriate time or trade show. Swapping out a few shots for a more current build is not something we can judge the progression of the whole game on in the slightest either.

I think Yu said something about this at Gamescom, you can't sum up the total accomplishment of development in a small video. You can't do it in about... ten seconds(?) of additional Alpha footage either. You either take him at his word or not, but ultimately he knows and we don't.

Valascaziel wrote:The screen from January 2018 looks better than anything they've shown to me, save for Shenhua looking improved slightly. Ryo looked better there to me than in today's footage.

Lighting/camera angles can have an impact on this. We saw it happen before with the E3 '15 and Gamescom '17 models, could well be happening again.

Valascaziel wrote:You guys know I can be a bit more critical and I'm not trying to be a "Technophilz" but I feel a bit concerned when we're poring over the same snippets for the last several months. We know the Gamescom and MAGIC footage were months old, almost a year old now...so..this is it? Same thing with arguably small improvements?

Look, you're ultimately entitled to your opinion but we've got completely reworked models, reworked lighting, and improved animation over Gamescom in those new clips. Small is underselling it, right?

*Second comparison gif removed because of it being from the cam trailer the Dojo agreed not to host*

Watch the whole gif. It's 52 seconds. The zoom ins focus on different aspects.



Compared to this

*snip*
[replacement]

The facial expressions/animations are so much better than before.

You can see in the very last second of the clip that Ryo's lips form a sly smirk. It's very subtle but a great detail.



Also it's interesting they removed Shenhua's bow around her waist and instead put a flower pin in her hair. I think she has new ear rings too. Then there is the embroidery below the collar of her shirt. It's very nice. They even made her face colorful by adding some blush! She doesn't look like a plastic action figure anymore. haha.

I do like Shenhua's braids in the previous model more though, and Ryo's facial structure is much better there as well. So, again there are a lot of improvements but also some questionable changes.

shredingskin wrote:Also there's a lot of variance in animation quality, the fight with the old man seems smooth AF, shenhua pointing looks like they just dragged the bone, the QTE stuff they showed was a little better but really stiff, it's really hard to guess where the game is currently. The footage shown could be from 2 years ago or last week for all we know.

Game development is iterative, and priorities are juggled according to need. And of course, nothing we've seen is finished.

Game development isn't like evenly filling up a bar from *not done* to *done*, I guess it's more like painting where you make your sketch and start layering on coat after coat of paint to achieve the final piece. If a game looks and feels done, it is.

The problem is that quite commonly the "done-ness" is faked for marketing purposes. Plenty of E3 demos that are incredibly close to how that game launches a year or two later are polished up to near final on purpose as a marketing tool, while near enough development of the rest of the game is on hold. I think God of War's Corey Barlog said making a slice for trade show can tack maybe two months onto the final release date of a game, because of it holding up work on the whole game.

Ys Net are taking an old school approach and not doing that, which is prudent considering they don't have all the money in the world to burn, but they don't have the luxury of working in private until they're ready to show more either. It's unfortunately a catch 22 where they get fucked by public opinion either way.