Concerns about Shenmue HD.

(Shenmue I & II Re-Release Discussion)

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Sappharad » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:20 am

Spaghetti wrote:
TheThirdComing wrote: My concern is that you see the intro to Shenmue 1 in 4:3... will the cutscenes not be in widescreen?

We see a Shenmue II cutscene in 16:9, and the trailer is split between 4:3 and 16:9 likely for the purposes of "old vs new" for the video.

Shenmue 2 cutscenes were always in 16x9. The fact that they go back to 4x3 at the end of the trailer doesn't make sense. "Sorry, we're going old again even though we're trying to show you the remastered game"

Since it was already mentioned - In Sonic Adventure 2's case, they had to keep some cutscenes in 4x3 because those scenes contained video overlays on top of the in-game rendering used for certain effects. The original videos were only 4x3 and it's likely that they didn't have the means or budget to try and re-create them. In Shenmue's case everything was in-engine so they should have the means to fix the cutscenes.

Esspiral is right though, there's no excuse for them not to fix it. We could do it for them if we ever figured out the cutscene format. I know it's just work in progress but we might as well notice these things now because if they make it all the way to release then they're not going to fix them. I want to see the game in the best condition they can put it in given the constraints. We know they're listening, so let's make sure when they do make changes they aren't sloppy.

Sappharad has received a thanks from: Mr357
Sappharad
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: October 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Spaghetti » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:43 am

Sappharad wrote:Shenmue 2 cutscenes were always in 16x9. The fact that they go back to 4x3 at the end of the trailer doesn't make sense. "Sorry, we're going old again even though we're trying to show you the remastered game"

Since it was already mentioned - In Sonic Adventure 2's case, they had to keep some cutscenes in 4x3 because those scenes contained video overlays on top of the in-game rendering used for certain effects. The original videos were only 4x3 and it's likely that they didn't have the means or budget to try and re-create them. In Shenmue's case everything was in-engine so they should have the means to fix the cutscenes.

Esspiral is right though, there's no excuse for them not to fix it. We could do it for them if we ever figured out the cutscene format. I know it's just work in progress but we might as well notice these things now because if they make it all the way to release then they're not going to fix them. I want to see the game in the best condition they can put it in given the constraints. We know they're listening, so let's make sure when they do make changes they aren't sloppy.

Unless I'm seriously misremembering if the Xbox version had a widescreen option, Shenmue II's cutscenes were still 4:3, unless you're mistaking the letterboxing for 16:9.

A quick Google tells me it was not, considering there appear to be hacks for both Dreamcast and Xbox to get a widescreen aspect ratio.

They either haven't fully implemented their solution, have an aspect ratio toggle option, or it was, like I suggested, something done for the video. They may have just returned to the 4:3 footage because that was what they had, and how they decided to end the video, IDK. It may have been recorded to be placed at the start of the trailer and got switched. The switch up from 4:3 to 16:9 in the middle of the trailer appears intentional, though.

It's unwise to start pointing fingers about no excuses not to fix X or Y, especially when the trailer is clearly marked WIP.

Spaghetti has received a thanks from: Reprise
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Kirino_Matsuyama » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:34 am

Spaghetti wrote:
Kirino_Matsuyama wrote: Did Adam play the PC version of Shenmue, and if so please can he confirm if it has dual audio?

I'm asking this because the Steam community are worried that they will only get the English audio version because that’s how it is listed on Steam.

Uh... both languages are listed on Steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/758330/Shenmue_I__II/

In the right hand bar, in the Languages block. Full audio in English and Japanese.


Yes, but only audio, no Japanese interface or Subtitles. I think this is what they are upset about.

I'm just happy to get Shenmue, I wish I could get it on the PC too, but not sure how I can do thing as I am living in Japan. I think it is up to Sega on whether or not they wish to prevent access to gamers in Japan playing on Steam.
User avatar
Kirino_Matsuyama
Asia Travel Representative
Asia Travel Representative
 
Joined: October 2017
Location: Kansai, Japan
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Shenmue

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby JPZ » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:42 am

Would be great if you could practice your moves in Shenmue II as well.

JPZ has received a thanks from: Elevensixty
User avatar
JPZ
Asia Travel Representative
Asia Travel Representative
 
Joined: July 2005
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Metal Gear Solid V

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Hazuki00 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:11 am

What I do hope is they to improve loading times. Enter to shops takes some seconds and this can be bothering at times.
User avatar
Hazuki00
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: July 2016
Location: Spain
Favorite title: Shenmue II
Currently playing: Waiting for Shenmue 3

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby elfshadowreaper » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:26 am

King John Blaze wrote:I longed for Shenmue 3 for so long, perhaps too long, as when it was announced I was hoping that it will be the last game in the series so I can close this chapter in my life.


I felt the exact same about the need to close the Shenmue chapter in my life. There was just such a lack of closure there was a nagging feeling because something was missing resolution.
User avatar
elfshadowreaper
Alpha Trading Boss
Alpha Trading Boss
 
Joined: July 2008
Location: Brunswick, Ga

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Valascaziel » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:56 am

I'm not too concerned. Quite some time before it releases, it's WIP.

And I'm of the mindset that they'll do everything they can to make this a special release. Also, there's only SO much you can do for a game nearly 20 years old. If you leap too far in your ambition, you end up with more of a "remake remaster" like SoTC or Spyro, which some may find nice, but might also lose a bit of its nostalgic charm and original vision Yu intended.
Valascaziel
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: June 2015

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby BalHan » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:31 am

Surely the loading times will be drastically cut short to the extent that if you blink you'll miss the location, date, and time screen lol. I'll be quite disappointed if the loading times are no different.

Hopefully buying toy capsules will be a speedier process in Shenmue I.

I'd like to spar Fuku-San as often as I'd like rather than just once a day.

Hopefully they've reduce the amount of training required to reach the advanced level for moves.
BalHan
Asia Travel Representative
Asia Travel Representative
 
Joined: January 2018
Favorite title: Shenmue IIx

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Spaghetti » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:35 am

Kirino_Matsuyama wrote:Yes, but only audio, no Japanese interface or Subtitles. I think this is what they are upset about.

I'm just happy to get Shenmue, I wish I could get it on the PC too, but not sure how I can do thing as I am living in Japan. I think it is up to Sega on whether or not they wish to prevent access to gamers in Japan playing on Steam.

Riiiiiight. Yes, I could see how that would be a problem. I don't believe the game is getting a Steam release in Japan, so that may explain it.
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Sappharad » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:39 pm

Spaghetti wrote:
Sappharad wrote:Shenmue 2 cutscenes were always in 16x9.

Unless I'm seriously misremembering if the Xbox version had a widescreen option, Shenmue II's cutscenes were still 4:3, unless you're mistaking the letterboxing for 16:9.

I'm not mistaking letterboxing for 16x9. I know it was letterboxed, but it was still 16x9. They did the exact same thing that Esspiral's most recent hack does, which just gives you the exact same view you had before without borders on the top and bottom. The viewable area was always [roughly] 16x9 and my point was not to be excited over an aspect ratio that the cutscenes already were designed for.
Spaghetti wrote:It's unwise to start pointing fingers about no excuses not to fix X or Y, especially when the trailer is clearly marked WIP.

No it's not, unless you misinterpret the intentions. If the same thing were true after the game releases we'd just be making the same comments then. Might as well make them now so there's a chance they can see it's something they might want to consider in case they didn't plan on fixing it.

We're not crying "oh this is wrong the game is going to be bad because of these things", it's "here are some flaws we see with the work in progress that you've shown us, we hope you fix those before you're done".

Sappharad has received a thanks from: Dorian
Sappharad
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: October 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Spaghetti » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:08 pm

Sappharad wrote:I'm not mistaking letterboxing for 16x9. I know it was letterboxed, but it was still 16x9. They did the exact same thing that Esspiral's most recent hack does, which just gives you the exact same view you had before without borders on the top and bottom. The viewable area was always [roughly] 16x9 and my point was not to be excited over an aspect ratio that the cutscenes already were designed for.

So if I'm reading this correctly you believe they've removed the letterboxing and just "blew up" the image remaining to fill the screen for the 16:9 shot in the trailer. Am I understanding that right?

Sappharad wrote:No it's not, unless you misinterpret the intentions. If the same thing were true after the game releases we'd just be making the same comments then. Might as well make them now so there's a chance they can see it's something they might want to consider in case they didn't plan on fixing it.

We're not crying "oh this is wrong the game is going to be bad because of these things", it's "here are some flaws we see with the work in progress that you've shown us, we hope you fix those before you're done".

Frankly it's just the conceit of this thread, being that within 24 hours of getting something we've all campaigned for over years and years, we're already picking holes in it and finding negativity. Especially when "WIP" was clearly listed on the trailer, and as per Adam Koralik we only know "5%" of the full story of what's happening with this remaster. We couldn't even go a day without a thread like this popping up.

And I don't buy the constructive criticism angle when the OP post is already declaring this a poor job and somehow worse than emulation.
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Sappharad » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:43 pm

Spaghetti wrote:So if I'm reading this correctly you believe they've removed the letterboxing and just "blew up" the image remaining to fill the screen for the 16:9 shot in the trailer. Am I understanding that right?

No? Your description of my statement makes it sound like you think that I think that there's additional information added to the scene. What I'm saying is that it's the original content, but formatted to fill a 16x9 because they don't need to letterbox anymore. If you compare it side-by-side, it's the same. They don't need to do anything to update Shenmue 2's cutscenes content for 16x9 because they were already 16x9.
Just look, I did the side-by-side for you:
Image
(time in both might be slightly different, I didn't go frame-by-frame to find exactly the same frame)

Spaghetti wrote:
Sappharad wrote:No it's not, unless you misinterpret the intentions. If the same thing were true after the game releases we'd just be making the same comments then. Might as well make them now so there's a chance they can see it's something they might want to consider in case they didn't plan on fixing it.

We're not crying "oh this is wrong the game is going to be bad because of these things", it's "here are some flaws we see with the work in progress that you've shown us, we hope you fix those before you're done".

Frankly it's just the conceit of this thread, being that within 24 hours of getting something we've all campaigned for over years and years, we're already picking holes in it and finding negativity. Especially when "WIP" was clearly listed on the trailer, and as per Adam Koralik we only know "5%" of the full story of what's happening with this remaster. We couldn't even go a day without a thread like this popping up.

And I don't buy the constructive criticism angle when the OP post is already declaring this a poor job and somehow worse than emulation.

It's not worse than emulation, going back through the thread nobody even said that. I would not have wanted them to emulate this, they are doing the right thing by porting it. I can see looking at other threads today that you and several others are getting personally offended by pointing out their opinions on what was shown so far and nobody's even attacking you. I'm sorry that you're upset, but there's no harm in talking about this. You don't need to defend the team, everyone posting here can read, so they saw the disclaimer that you're keen to point out. You're exactly right, we don't know what Sega's plans are for this, which is why we are sharing our thoughts on what we've seen so far.

I guess I'm also coming at this from a different perspective than you. I didn't find the opening post to be negative, it doesn't imply to me that he thinks it's bad. I don't think it's bad either. There has been some negativity here this weekend, especially with Peter fighting with that Polish guy that he eventually banned, but I didn't notice anyone disparaging the work that has been done. We've been through a similar situation already over the past 7 months regarding Shenmue 3's character models. They look fine to me, but other people are not satisfied yet. I'm not going to argue with other people about what they think, that's their decision, but I'm willing to talk about it to find out why they feel that way.

My entire point can be summarized as this: I personally hope they put an effort into presenting the first game's cutscenes in 16x9. The video shows that might not have done that, or didn't do it yet. If they don't it's not a big deal, but it would be a shame given the circumstances. Please don't take it personally.

Sappharad has received 2 thanks from: Mr357, TheThreeevils
Sappharad
Man Mo Acolyte
Man Mo Acolyte
 
Joined: October 2015
Favorite title: Shenmue II

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Spaghetti » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:11 am

I'm going to come back to the rest later but "It's not worse than emulation, going back through the thread nobody even said that."

It's literally in the OP.

"My expectations are really low, even the official screenshots that have been posted on STEAM look worse than some emulations shots we all have been seen here."

And please don't wax lyrical about the negativity of this thread like it's justified. It's shoot first and ask questions later, at best. We know a fraction of what's happening with Shenmue HD, and it's been made clear it is a work in progress. We couldn't go a day - a single day - without a thread like this, and that says volumes about the attitudes of some people on this forum.

Spaghetti has received a thanks from: VukBZ2005
User avatar
Spaghetti
Machine Gun Fist
Machine Gun Fist
 
Joined: November 2015

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Yama » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:30 am

Isn’t it a little early to be “concerned?” I’m not fluffing off any actual critique of the game and fully understand while a WIP what they’ve shown is still indicative of something. But still, it is just that; a WIP. Less than 12hrs after the announcement and users are “worried.” I’m sorry, but can’t anyone just rejoice for a moment? This is a series that was lucky to get a manga adaption 5 years ago, let alone re-releases and a sequel. Just kind of disappointed to see some members tone around the re-releases. I respect everyone’s opinions, especially those with as many contributions as OP, but I stand by my message.
Image

Yama has received a thanks from: Supa
User avatar
Yama
Shenmue Dojo Owner
Shenmue Dojo Owner
 
Joined: December 2003
Location: Los Angeles
PSN: YamaMX
Favorite title: Shenmue

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby darkfalz » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:10 am

fischkopf wrote:
I also hope they will port over all the enhanced features from the Xbox port of Shenmue 2 to Shenmue 1 as well, such as improved Textures, better Shadows and better water. I would also love to see some modern post-processing effects added, such as ambient occlusion and depth of field.


As long as you can turn off I'm okay with this, but adding modern effects to a game with texture/models from 2000 is lipstick on a pig. I just want decent filtering (due to texture memory limitations, most of the original game doesn't even have proper mipmapping/bilinear filtering) and AA. Improved lighting would also be fine. I also hope they emulate the original sound hardware (which was a kind of hardware MIDI) rather than have a pre-rendered mp3 soundtrack and they manage to find the original voice recordings rather than using the 11khz AHX files. I even hope the UI doesn't look too sharp by comparison to the graphics, just a tasteful update. 16:9 would be good but having the original 4:3 would also be nice.
darkfalz
Asia Travel Representative
Asia Travel Representative
 
Joined: August 2017
Steam: darkfalz79
Favorite title: Shenmue

PreviousNext

Return to Shenmue I & II Re-Release

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000-
ShenmueDojo.net