Concerns about Shenmue HD.

(Shenmue I & II Re-Release Discussion)

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby staplepuffs27 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:36 pm

Curious, what company ported the Xbox version originally? I've heard Yu was not involve at all
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Amir » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:05 pm

staplepuffs27 wrote: Curious, what company ported the Xbox version originally? I've heard Yu was not involve at all


Yu was indeed not involved, but it was still made by AM2 and led by Shin Ishikawa (https://segaretro.org/Shin_Ishikawa) who had also worked on the Dreamcast games: http://www.the-nextlevel.com/features/interviews/am2/

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby TheThirdComing » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:43 pm

I have to confess, I don't think reviews are going to be kind to this, I'm really hoping it doesn't get as slated as the PS3 release of Sonic Adventure does - A release I actually enjoyed: http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/09/23/ ... ure-review

I just feel while they've made many great improvements - HD textures, Faster loading, modern control scheme & Save anywhere feature (Which the Xbox version of S2 had anyway I should add.), I really think the big elephant in the room is the cutscenes of the aspect ratio - I've said my piece on that and apaprently can't expand my concern but I fear newcomers will be put of with by it - especially when seeing S2's cutscenes in fullscreen in the recent trailer.. which looked great and makes me wonder how that is not possible when they've shown it already. Beyond that, I think the voice acting will make newcomers jaw drop - "Hey Mister! Wanna play with me!!!"... While chraming to us vets' I can see how it gratting it would be for newcomers - but with the inclusion of the Japanese V.O. may offer some form of compensation.

Beyond techincal aspects I'm hoping new gamers will respect and ease to Shenmue's pacing, it's certainly slow paced compaired to a lot of games. Yet I think with Yakuza's recent resurgence due to SEGA's fantastic job in making the series accessible again that many players from that series will hopefully approach Shenmue with interest.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Centrale » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:49 pm

TheThirdComing wrote: I have to confess, I don't think reviews are going to be kind to this, I'm really hoping it doesn't get as slated as the PS3 release of Sonic Adventure does - A release I actually enjoyed: http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/09/23/ ... ure-review


I think we can all but guarantee that IGN is going to tee off on this - they've probably already got the hatchet job review written. I'd expect something similar from Polygon. Actually it could be fun predicting what each outlet's review scores will be.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby GYO6161 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:59 pm

Honestly i hope these modern review outlets outright skip this release. They are not gonna make these games justice.
There's no need for them to review and trash it because it isn't like the typical modern AAA game release and its a little dated for modern reviewers standards.

In any case i hope these reviews don't scare off newcomers since many of them like to rely on reviews, metacritic, word of mouth, what their friends think, whats trendy ect. We need newcomers to buy and support this re-release to secure the franchise's future.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Tosh » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:21 am

I don't mind modern reviews for older games. I remember when the Resident Evil 1 Remake was released
on PS4, PC and Xbox One and some German magazines and websites gave it like 60/100
because they reviewed it like a brand new modern game. And i can understand their points
if you never touched a game like this before
but did it matter in any way for Resident Evil fans?

The game was still super fun and i'm pretty sure all the fans still bought it.
These re releases are mostly for fans of the specific game or the franchise. I'm pretty sure
the group of buyers for Shenmue HD consists mostly of people that grew up with Shenmue,
so it shouldnt really matter what modern reviews think about that.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby ShenGCH » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:03 am

GYO6161 wrote: Honestly i hope these modern review outlets outright skip this release. They are not gonna make these games justice.
There's no need for them to review and trash it because it isn't like the typical modern AAA game release and its a little dated for modern reviewers standards.

In any case i hope these reviews don't scare off newcomers since many of them like to rely on reviews, metacritic, word of mouth, what their friends think, whats trendy ect. We need newcomers to buy and support this re-release to secure the franchise's future.

I think we need to give a little credit to people's autonomy here. First of all, it isn't the 90s or the era of Metacritic dominance any more; video game critics are the least powerful they have ever been, and it's only going to get worse for them. Secondly, anyone who is seriously interested in diving into the series will either go in head-first or do a little research on the games before laying down the cash; chances are they will come across videos, articles, forum posts, and even tweets from the passionate fans singing the games' praises, weigh them against what the critics are saying, and make their decision based on those factors.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby GYO6161 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:14 am

ShenGCH wrote:
GYO6161 wrote: Honestly i hope these modern review outlets outright skip this release. They are not gonna make these games justice.
There's no need for them to review and trash it because it isn't like the typical modern AAA game release and its a little dated for modern reviewers standards.

In any case i hope these reviews don't scare off newcomers since many of them like to rely on reviews, metacritic, word of mouth, what their friends think, whats trendy ect. We need newcomers to buy and support this re-release to secure the franchise's future.

I think we need to give a little credit to people's autonomy here. First of all, it isn't the 90s or the era of Metacritic dominance any more; video game critics are the least powerful they have ever been, and it's only going to get worse for them. Secondly, anyone who is seriously interested in diving into the series will either go in head-first or do a little research on the games before laying down the cash; chances are they will come across videos, articles, forum posts, and even tweets from the passionate fans singing the games' praises, weigh them against what the critics are saying, and make their decision based on those factors.

I'm glad you put more faith on this matter than i do, tbh seeing all the scrutiny that the gaming populace has thrown onto Shenmue 3 whenever there's an update has made me lose alot of hope and optimism. I hope you are right.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby mrandyk » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:22 pm

Even if the re-releases were perfect I think they would do nothing to help sales of Shenmue 3, and will probably hurt them in all likelihood. People who have never played these games aren't going to enjoy them. I'm sure the majority of video game revenues are from individuals too young to have played a Dreamcast and won't be able to enjoy a game from that era. They might have been curious about Shenmue 3 to begin with, but won't be if they pick up 1+2 first (or read the reviews from others in their same situation).

That being said, this is looking like a nearly bare minimum effort. Fans have made better looking results through emulation. The bait-and-switch on Shenmue 2 cutscenes says it all. It's going to be critically panned no matter what, but that doesn't mean it isn't warranted.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby johnjohnbrem » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:37 pm

mrandyk wrote: Even if the re-releases were perfect I think they would do nothing to help sales of Shenmue 3, and will probably hurt them in all likelihood. People who have never played these games aren't going to enjoy them. I'm sure the majority of video game revenues are from individuals too young to have played a Dreamcast and won't be able to enjoy a game from that era. They might have been curious about Shenmue 3 to begin with, but won't be if they pick up 1+2 first (or read the reviews from others in their same situation).

That being said, this is looking like a nearly bare minimum effort. Fans have made better looking results through emulation. The bait-and-switch on Shenmue 2 cutscenes says it all. It's going to be critically panned no matter what, but that doesn't mean it isn't warranted.


I hope your optimism isn't contagious or something :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Robfozz » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:06 am

In general I'm happy enough with the collection. Resolution bump is great, slightly higher quality textures, and above all else its an easy and affordable way to play them in the modern age.

I just think they couldve done better in a few areas. Shenmue 1 cutscenes being 4:3 is fine, I could care less. I've played Espiral's hack and the cutscenes really don't translate well like people claim they do. What I think is unacceptable though is Shenmue 2 still being letterboxed. It's been said over and over already but Shenmue 2s cutscenes could be zoomed in with no lost picture. For God's sake they even do it in the trailers.

I think they could've done better on the new post processing too. We've seen what's possible on emulators with reshades. These new effects look like garbage in Shenmue 1 plain and simple. The game looks washed out and shadows seem to almost disappear. It looks a little better in Shenmue 2 at least fron what theyve shown but they could've taken this a few steps further. Post processing is a great easy and cheap way to make an old game look fantastic and they dropped the ball on it. And I know it can be turned off and whater but it still could've been done better.

The next thing is the audio. I've heard things that the original recordings still exist, I have no idea of the validity of these claims but if they do exist why not use them. Shenmue 1 can get away with the compressed audio it's not super noticable. But Shenmue 2? The levels of compression change every other line. Ryo will say a crystal clear line of dialogue followed up by one that sounds tinny and fuzzy. I'm sure they're not that stupid and if they had the original stuff they'd use it but who knows.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Centrale » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:36 pm

Robfozz wrote: I think they could've done better on the new post processing too. We've seen what's possible on emulators with reshades. These new effects look like garbage in Shenmue 1 plain and simple.


Are you trying to provoke an argument? It's certainly easier to tear things down than to build them. I really don't like the emulator vs. port dynamic going on. Who are these lazy devs who got all the plum jobs at studios while the brilliant hobbyists can't get a foot in the door? How did they do that?

Some interesting things have been done with emulators. But they are usually accompanied with some serious caveats that would prevent them from ever being released commercially. Like the depth of field effect that looks cool in still images but is a glitchy mess in gameplay. It's a long road from 'this kind of works most of the time' to 'this is ready to be professionally released' and when you're on it, you often find that it ends up being even longer than you thought.

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby DigitalDuck » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:46 pm

Robfozz wrote:I just think they couldve done better in a few areas. Shenmue 1 cutscenes being 4:3 is fine, I could care less. I've played Espiral's hack and the cutscenes really don't translate well like people claim they do. What I think is unacceptable though is Shenmue 2 still being letterboxed. It's been said over and over already but Shenmue 2s cutscenes could be zoomed in with no lost picture. For God's sake they even do it in the trailers.


How do you handle scenes like this, where the black bars pull away into a "full" 4:3 image for the QTE?

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Bambi » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:42 pm

Centrale wrote:Some interesting things have been done with emulators. But they are usually accompanied with some serious caveats that would prevent them from ever being released commercially. Like the depth of field effect that looks cool in still images but is a glitchy mess in gameplay. It's a long road from 'this kind of works most of the time' to 'this is ready to be professionally released' and when you're on it, you often find that it ends up being even longer than you thought.

Couldn't agree more, I've been playing the games through emulation for the last 7 or so years and while it's convenient there's a definite immersion trade-off when graphical glitches appear.

I'm sure someone has run the numbers from a marketing point of view and worked out what % of the potential player base will be new and put off by the game's (by today's standards) old fashioned graphics etc. and concluded that it's not a demographic they should pursue.

I think it's amazing these ports are even being released at all, from a costing point of view I think it makes a lot more sense for Sega to release an up-scaled port like this than to sink more money into a series which hasn't exactly been profitable for them.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Robfozz » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:36 pm

DigitalDuck wrote:
Robfozz wrote:I just think they couldve done better in a few areas. Shenmue 1 cutscenes being 4:3 is fine, I could care less. I've played Espiral's hack and the cutscenes really don't translate well like people claim they do. What I think is unacceptable though is Shenmue 2 still being letterboxed. It's been said over and over already but Shenmue 2s cutscenes could be zoomed in with no lost picture. For God's sake they even do it in the trailers.


How do you handle scenes like this, where the black bars pull away into a "full" 4:3 image for the QTE?

I guess in that rare instance it would result in losing picture but thats a comparatively microscopic sacrifice for seamless cutscenes to gameplay. Actually your example has made me think, I'm pretty sure QTEs are 16:9 so that transition will be even more jarring as I doubt they'll add an animation for the side bars pulling away. Zooming in truly would be the best option.
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