Concerns about Shenmue HD.

(Shenmue I & II Re-Release Discussion)

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby mrandyk » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:18 pm

Bambi wrote:
Centrale wrote:Some interesting things have been done with emulators. But they are usually accompanied with some serious caveats that would prevent them from ever being released commercially. Like the depth of field effect that looks cool in still images but is a glitchy mess in gameplay. It's a long road from 'this kind of works most of the time' to 'this is ready to be professionally released' and when you're on it, you often find that it ends up being even longer than you thought.

Couldn't agree more, I've been playing the games through emulation for the last 7 or so years and while it's convenient there's a definite immersion trade-off when graphical glitches appear.

I'm sure someone has run the numbers from a marketing point of view and worked out what % of the potential player base will be new and put off by the game's (by today's standards) old fashioned graphics etc. and concluded that it's not a demographic they should pursue.

I think it's amazing these ports are even being released at all, from a costing point of view I think it makes a lot more sense for Sega to release an up-scaled port like this than to sink more money into a series which hasn't exactly been profitable for them.

You're correct, Sega is looking to profit maximize. It's going to cost Shenmue 3 some sales though.

Sega decided it wasn't worth refining the remakes further because they don't have a financial stake in the next installment. If they had greater interest in seeing 3 succeed they wouldn't have put so little into the remakes (or avoided them altogether because you're not going to get the gaming landscape of 2018 hyped with 20 year old games). I'm glad that I'll have them, but that pleasure might be shortsighted if it turns out to jeopardize the future of the series.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Bambi » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:10 am

mrandyk wrote:
Bambi wrote:
Centrale wrote:Some interesting things have been done with emulators. But they are usually accompanied with some serious caveats that would prevent them from ever being released commercially. Like the depth of field effect that looks cool in still images but is a glitchy mess in gameplay. It's a long road from 'this kind of works most of the time' to 'this is ready to be professionally released' and when you're on it, you often find that it ends up being even longer than you thought.

Couldn't agree more, I've been playing the games through emulation for the last 7 or so years and while it's convenient there's a definite immersion trade-off when graphical glitches appear.

I'm sure someone has run the numbers from a marketing point of view and worked out what % of the potential player base will be new and put off by the game's (by today's standards) old fashioned graphics etc. and concluded that it's not a demographic they should pursue.

I think it's amazing these ports are even being released at all, from a costing point of view I think it makes a lot more sense for Sega to release an up-scaled port like this than to sink more money into a series which hasn't exactly been profitable for them.

You're correct, Sega is looking to profit maximize. It's going to cost Shenmue 3 some sales though.

Sega decided it wasn't worth refining the remakes further because they don't have a financial stake in the next installment. If they had greater interest in seeing 3 succeed they wouldn't have put so little into the remakes (or avoided them altogether because you're not going to get the gaming landscape of 2018 hyped with 20 year old games). I'm glad that I'll have them, but that pleasure might be shortsighted if it turns out to jeopardize the future of the series.

Just so I'm clear about what you mean, you think a higher budget re-master of I and II would get the gaming landscape of 2018 hyped and that the future of the series hinges on this kind of mainstream success?
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby sand4fish » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:37 am

He is saying that while Shenmue 1 had the most cutting edge graphics out of any other game at the time and still failed to be a financial success, somehow 20 years later it will make Sega rich if these old games are at least on par with a current gen game graphically speaking because why not? It just makes sense to any Shenmue fan. And Sega definitely shouldn't jeopardize the future of a series that hasn't seen the light of the day for nearly two decades. Thank you Sega for releasing remasters of our favorite game at the price of a mobile game but no thank you. The end.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby fischkopf » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:55 am

Bambi wrote:Just so I'm clear about what you mean, you think a higher budget re-master of I and II would get the gaming landscape of 2018 hyped and that the future of the series hinges on this kind of mainstream success?

Not really, but the negative impression for failing to adapt modern standards such as a 16:9 aspect ratio will definitely have people talking negatively about Shenmue, which is much worse than if the remake just got a "neutral" reception. Shenmue has a reputation for pushing technical boundaries at the time it was released so the least thing you could expect for a "remastered" version is to be modernized for modern aspect ratios.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Bambi » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:36 pm

fischkopf wrote:Not really, but the negative impression for failing to adapt modern standards such as a 16:9 aspect ratio will definitely have people talking negatively about Shenmue, which is much worse than if the remake just got a "neutral" reception. Shenmue has a reputation for pushing technical boundaries at the time it was released so the least thing you could expect for a "remastered" version is to be modernized for modern aspect ratios.

I think it's important to bear in mind that Shenmue III isn't happening because of newcomers, it's the result of a passionate but relatively small fan-base that refused to stop asking about it and when presented with the opportunity to help donated generously.

Shenmue does not and will never have the biggest most commercially attractive audience, I wouldn't worry about what impact reviews of the re-release will have on the future of the series. I certainly don't agree that it's worse than nothing, even an up-scaled port with a less desirable aspect ratio will give people a solid introduction to the series.

It has a lot going for it, name recognition as a (not so hidden) gem, it's available across a good number of platforms and is priced well. I certainly think it's a better accompaniment than Shenmue The Movie was when the second game got ported to the Xbox.

If you don't believe that then I think we'll have to chalk that up to a fundamental difference of opinion. Personally I'm looking forward to being able to play my favourite games without worrying about buying a 4th Dreamcast.

Bambi has received a thanks from: sand4fish
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby sand4fish » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:38 pm

Bad jokes aside, no general gamer playing these games today will remember Shenmue pushing any boundaries back in the day. If you ask around most will have GTA 3 in their mind as the defining game changer of that time even though it was released 2 years later. And people who never played Shenmue know it more for its negative reputation of walking simulator, bad acting and tank controls rather than the open world aspect and graphics. So imo no 4k, 60 fps or full aspect ratio will change that general opinion or have an impact on sales. Like Bambi said, the core fanbase is what have sustained the series so far and will continue to do so. The talks of fans pre-ordering multiple copies of Shenmue HD either just for keepsake or to share with family and friends just further proves that.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Verderame » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:17 am

I'm sure a bunch of newcomers will join the fanbase as well, since the true strenghts of these games are timeless and the people that have that kind of sensibility that is needed to appreciate them can still be hooked even today, but of course they're almost 20 years old games with dated graphics and tank controls, that were also not-unanimously beloved and critically acclaimed even when they were the hottest shit in gaming, so yeah, we'll get ton of smug hyperbolic shitposts on gaming forums and exploitative clickbait articles and reviews from gaming "journalists" when the remasters will be out, and i hope everyone here is psychologically prepared for that.

The only way to get an actual, sizeable share of new fans would've been a complete, total remake for the games with AAA graphics and all the modern comodities and standards, and that was never going to happen.
We'll probably have to count on Shenmue 3 to do that.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby mjq jazz bar » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:19 am

Shenmue is what it is. People who are inclined to like a slower pace and more detailed game world will find a lot to love, and the impending release of Shenmue 3 won't hurt. If they buy it expecting a 2018-styled game, then they are playing the wrong game. It's like buying an Atari 2600 collection and expecting PS4 graphics & gameplay.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby mrandyk » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:39 pm

sand4fish wrote: He is saying that while Shenmue 1 had the most cutting edge graphics out of any other game at the time and still failed to be a financial success, somehow 20 years later it will make Sega rich if these old games are at least on par with a current gen game graphically speaking because why not? It just makes sense to any Shenmue fan. And Sega definitely shouldn't jeopardize the future of a series that hasn't seen the light of the day for nearly two decades. Thank you Sega for releasing remasters of our favorite game at the price of a mobile game but no thank you. The end.

Great analysis. You took all points of view into consideration and crafted a thoughtful response. I truly admire your ability to think for yourself.
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