Concerns about Shenmue HD.

(Shenmue I & II Re-Release Discussion)

Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby staplepuffs27 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:57 pm

life_247 wrote:
Jibby wrote:
life_247 wrote:So they have simply banged in a quick port of the Xbox version


life_247 wrote:It’s a PS Store release dressed up as a proper remaster.


Again let me reiterate: it's ok to discuss these concerns, but when you begin passing this speculation off as fact like the above examples it becomes a problem. Please be mindful of this when discussing further.



Maybe a bit reactionary on my part but I stand by the it’s a PS Store release dressed up as a remaster comment. With the informatoion provided in the video thus far (the one on the web site) it’s a new menu, hd hud, remapped controls and set to run at 1080p. Very threadbare!

Again if this was digital only for £10 each - great! But a full retail release seems very worrying!

I fear this is Sega cashing in - 3rd party studio doing a direct port of a console game from 2 generations ago.

Yakuza Kiwami is a completely redone 1st game that retails for the same amount. Crash bandicoot also got the same treatment with all 3 games and a similar Spyro collection is arriving in September. All of these collections retail for the same price as the “Shenmue I & II” collection. For what they’ve announced it is vastly overpriced compared to their competitors.
Do you really want the graphics redone from the ground up? I apologize if that's not what you're implying, but all of the games you mentioned fall in that category. I can just imagine people complaining if D3T radically changed the look of the games. If you change too much, you will upset people.

Plus, we still don't know everything. For all we know, additional texture work could be on the cards. For $30, you're getting two hefty, story-driven games, and there is stuff that's yet to be announced. Just have a little faith. :)

On another note, if the cutscenes are 4:3, is this something that could be modded on PC?

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby life_247 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:02 pm

I don’t mind if it’s a straightforward upscale port, but at the price point and sort of marketing push they’ve got going with a physical release I feel it’s going to be over priced. As a fan I will get it day 1 and play away but the wider consensus is likely to be very different.

Either do a lot of work to get it to be that sort of value or make it a digital store release at a lower price point so it’s clear it’s a simple port that runs at a higher res.

I fear they are pricing and pushing it as one thing when in reality it’s another.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby BlueMue » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:02 pm

Spaghetti wrote: And as Kiske pointed out in the Famitsu thread there's this oddity from the trailer:

Image

It doesn't feel like we've gotten to the bottom of the hows and whys yet.

Yeah that's what lets me keep my cool. Mentioned that situation myself earlier.
Everyone should really just keep it cool for now.

BlueMue wrote:And because we've seen both cutscenes and gameplay in original format and full widescreen to me matches with the fact that there will be an option to chose this.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Sappharad » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:35 pm

I'm disappointed that this whole thread sadly turned into a shitshow since I visited yesterday. Lots of incorrect information, and unsourced 'new' information. :-(

I mentioned the 4x3 versus 16x9 thing already and had to point out that the cutscenes were already that ratio but letterboxed. Refer to the side-by-side image on Page 4 with the exact same clip mentioned here. The images we have thus far imply that Shenmue 2 will offer both a 16x9 aspect ratio or 4x3, it's your choice. This is NOT confirmed officially, but we've seen both. Shenmue 1 is the only case where we don't know what they'll do with the aspect ratio, because those cutscenes weren't letterboxed and would require effort to expand the width due to cases where stuff could be happening off camera.

I hope this thread continues though. I am very interested in reading about the actual problems and concerns that we can notice from the materials released so far. Ultimately some of it is going to be opinions, but this is where we're getting the deepest analysis of the media we've seen so far.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Peter » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:41 pm

The staff have talked about it at length, and we are not going to close anything up. We can all get excited, and even myself have to juggle between being both an admin, but also a fan. We have faith this topic and the forum will bounce back, and things will be ok for now, due to the simple fact that we are all in the same boat with information; we have very little. That means most comments are fair game, and all of us need to remember that an opposite opinion is not a wrong opinion.

The only rules which are going to be enforced are that all comments are respectful of both the developer and everyone involved in the project. Anyone going off the rails at them will be spoken to, and if things dont pipe down, be dealt with.
The other is if anyone becomes so stubborn minded and refuses to see other peoples points of view, they will be handled the same way. Spoken to, and if no change, dealt with. It goes back to one of the oldest rules thats a given in any online forum; respect others.

Where we are at right now in terms of what these games are, or with the little information we have, it seems like the best way to continue forward.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby NismoZZzz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:01 pm

Only concern I have is the release date. Everything else means nothing because I get to play it on my PS4 finally.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby fischkopf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:17 am

BlueMue wrote: Well the issue with the DMC menus were the CG video backgrounds. Same deal that limited the Resident Evil Remake Rerelease. Can't just extend the visible area like with realtime graphics obviously. There are of course ways to fill the screen but they include stretching or cropping.

I don't recall any instance in a cutscene in Shenmue where something really messy happened during a cutscene with the widescreen hacks. In II there is the occasional hiccup with character animations and placement but it's really no big deal at all. It's actually a lot less worrying than Shenmue even. All they have to do is change the FoW and "zoom" in the cutscenes so they fill the screen. No loss in quality and no glitches to worry about it done so. Just need to crop a tiny little amount on the sides as the black bars are actually 1.85:1 like movies and not the usual 1.78:1 style 16:9.

Please just wait and see how all the features for chosing the resolution surface instead of panicking.

Even in scenes where removing the bars is impossible because there's no animation available for the additional screen space, they could always adjust the camera angles. Doing a straight port of a game is easy, but I expect a little more than that. Shenmue is an important piece of gaming history and it's essential they do everything in their power to ensure the legacy stays alive and the game is presented in the best possible way achievable in 2018. There's no reason why they shouldn't go to greater extents (e.g. adding new camera angles) to make sure the game is the best possible experience it can be today. With the source code in their hands, they can do so much more than we can achieve with some makeshift and possibly unstable HEX edits in an emulator.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Amir » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:54 am

Thought I'd send a quick email to D3T, I'm not too worried but thought there was no harm in sending this:

Hi there,

Really excited to play Shenmue I & II again as a lifelong fan. The work-in-progress screenshots look impressive so far, just had a couple of notes/concerns:

- How will shadows be implemented in Shenmue II? I played it on the Dreamcast so I never saw the stencil shadows for the Xbox version, but that would be a nice toggle feature to have, at least on PC.

- The cutscenes for Shenmue II were originally presented in letterboxed 16:9; is it possible to have these in 16:9 widescreen instead?

Looking forward to release day!
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Tosh » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:37 am

Isnt it kind of funny that Adam said he can only tell us very small things (5% out of 100)
and how there are new features and so on
but it feels like almost every rumor turned out to be false.

Oh this means you can save everywhere in Shenmue 1 right? No. Oh, but you can use your save file
for 1, 2 and 3 now right? No. What about 16:9 cutscenes in 1? Probably not. 60 fps? Nope.
Will they use the dreamcast version for 2? Probably not. Will we get the original licenses
and uncensored content? Probably not. Collectors Edition? No.

No hate or anything, i'm really looking forward to Shenmue HD,
i'm just wondering what the other 95% are about? :D
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby dietsoap » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:09 am

Tosh wrote: Isnt it kind of funny that Adam said he can only tell us very small things (5% out of 100)
and how there are new features and so on
but it feels like almost every rumor turned out to be false.

Oh this means you can save everywhere in Shenmue 1 right? No. Oh, but you can use your save file
for 1, 2 and 3 now right? No. What about 16:9 cutscenes in 1? Probably not. 60 fps? Nope.
Will they use the dreamcast version for 2? Probably not. Will we get the original licenses
and uncensored content? Probably not. Collectors Edition? No.

No hate or anything, i'm really looking forward to Shenmue HD,
i'm just wondering what the other 95% are about? :D

I get the feeling DT3 is probably pissed at Adam for saying that. I imagine it's super misleading/inaccurate.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby SheepheadCG » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:29 am

I understand where you are coming with the whole "5%" thing but even if he is saying that things are NOT in the game, it still is knowledge that adds to that 5% lol.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Centrale » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:42 am

fischkopf wrote:Even in scenes where removing the bars is impossible because there's no animation available for the additional screen space, they could always adjust the camera angles. Doing a straight port of a game is easy, but I expect a little more than that. Shenmue is an important piece of gaming history and it's essential they do everything in their power to ensure the legacy stays alive and the game is presented in the best possible way achievable in 2018.


I can't imagine Yu Suzuki would want anyone messing around with the camera angles. As much as any game (series) in history, Shenmue embodies the concept of the auteur, a singular vision of an artist. Many interviews over the years with people who worked on the series have included mentions of how involved Yu Suzuki was in every element of the design. Additionally, as I recall, a lot of the cinematics don't have simple static shots... there are a lot of sweeping, dramatic camera movements that would be no simple matter to change while somehow preserving their beauty.

I also don't like the way some people are declaring that this or that aspect of game development is "easy" or the absence of some feature is due to a developer being "lazy." Or even the notion that, if something has been achieved by a talented modder in the community working with an emulator, then it should be no problem to implement that in a consumer product that has to undergo rigorous approvals with the console platform holders. The approvals processes are notoriously meticulous. If any subsequent patches become necessary due to bugs that are discovered after release, the same extensive approvals process have to be undertaken again. They are time-consuming and expensive. If there is some feature that is theoretically technically possible, but it isn't being implemented, it could be due to a variety of reasons - not the least of which is the budget. "Laziness" isn't something that you will ever observe among game developers. In truth they are incredibly hard-working, to an unhealthy degree in many studios.

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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Tosh » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:53 am

SheepheadCG wrote: I understand where you are coming with the whole "5%" thing but even if he is saying that things are NOT in the game, it still is knowledge that adds to that 5% lol.


So the other 90 / 95% of the news he cant talk about right now
are just other false community rumors? And in the end we already knew everything.
Sounds good. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Tosh on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby SheepheadCG » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 am

Tosh wrote:
SheepheadCG wrote: I understand where you are coming with the whole "5%" thing but even if he is saying that things are NOT in the game, it still is knowledge that adds to that 5% lol.


So the other 90 / 95% of the news he cant talk about right now
are just other false community rumors? And in the end we already know everything there is to know.
Sounds good. :mrgreen:


lol maybe yes :P All we can do is wait and see. Sega's community manage said they will be releasing new information in coming months leading up to release, so I'm sure we can expect a constant trickle of information to keep us in the loop :)
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Re: Concerns about Shenmue HD.

Postby Valascaziel » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:46 pm

Well, folks---unless the 4:3 is actively being worked on and our dev lurker joined to assess feedback or ideas, I'd say we are looking at, essentially, an "RE4 HD", which is a basic remaster upscale with moderate enhancement lile5 subtitles or dual language.

I'm a little disappointed, but grateful that we are at least getting the game again. I would have loved some PS4 Pro 4K, but it looks like PC will be the way to go with possible mods coming that way by the extensive community to enhance it further.
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